Are people wasting their time with Bat Guano,molasses and green sand ?

[somerandom]

As the title says , Are people wasting time,money and effort using
Bat Guano,molasses and green sand ?

In an effort to get way from synthetic nutes I recently purchased an 8 bottle starter box of Nectar For the Gods. After doing a little research i came across this video from monster gardens with Scott from oregonsonly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjbW2KPbTw

That basically says:

Bat Guano = no benefit to the plant

Molasses = carbon that isn't pre digested is to big of a chain for the plant to break down. black strap molasses is like tar to the roots and doesn't feed microbe colony.

Green sand = Takes 12-14 months to break down to be usable by the plant.

I see these talked about and used constantly here along with cal/mag which is also talked about in the video.

I'm hoping for an open dialogue from knowledgeable people so i can learn something i know nothing about. Anyone care to take the time to watch the video ?

Eventually i'd like to use living soil. I figured by at least moving away from synthetics and into organic nutrients i could gain some knowledge before doing so.

Also the guy at the hydro store said i will lose weight but gain quality using these nutrients. The video suggests that i won't lose weight because it's not nitrate based.

Comments ?

 

[cyat]

same co. has a guano product?

 

[somerandom]

If you watched the video he says it's his least favorite product and that they only make it to satisfy people that use it,adding it's useless.

 

[dank.frank]

Sounds like the company spends a lot of time trying to get people to use their products by discrediting things that have worked for a lot longer than they have been around...

Along the journey, I've done grows with nothing but various guanos, kelp and lime - had great plants - not the best because the flavor was a bit different than I expected - more earthy - but regardless to say it doesn't work is nothing but lies.



dank.Frank

 

[cyat]

If you watched the video he says it's his least favorite product and that they only make it to satisfy people that use it,adding it's useless.

i didnt watch it cause I have tried their products which left my plants deficient.. and it stinks fierce after the mint wears off

 

[SpicySativa]

I couldn't take more than about 5 minutes of that video.. That guy is absolutely talking out of his ass. Pure pseudoscience. Not surprising, considering he's there for the sole purpose of pushing his product.

*Molasses feeds soil microbes. We know this.

*Guano is great fertilizer. If it wasn't, why would entire wars have been fought over it? He was at least slightly correct about the environmental issues associated with guano. I no longer use guano for this reason.

*His talk of Cal and Mag just made me laugh out loud! Throw in the word "chelate" every now and then, and people will think you sound smart (even if you don't seem to have any grasp on what the word means).

Funny shit...

To the OP, I would STRONGLY recommend skipping the bottled organic nutrients and going straight to a REAL organic system where your nutrients are composted into the soil.

 

[RoadRash]

As the title says , Are people wasting time,money and effort using
Bat Guano,molasses and green sand ?

In an effort to get way from synthetic nutes I recently purchased an 8 bottle starter box of Nectar For the Gods. After doing a little research i came across this video from monster gardens with Scott from oregonsonly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjbW2KPbTw

That basically says:

Bat Guano = no benefit to the plant

Molasses = carbon that isn't pre digested is to big of a chain for the plant to break down. black strap molasses is like tar to the roots and doesn't feed microbe colony.

Green sand = Takes 12-14 months to break down to be usable by the plant.

Comments ?

True, greensand takes some time to break down. It doesn't mean it's waste of $. But some of the benefit of that greensand could go to wherever you dump your soil after a grow.

I used to use my community garden plot to dump the big round dirt things. Plenty of good nutrients left in it.

As for bat guano - I've never done a side-by-side with bone meal.

 

[SpicySativa]

Greensand is especially beneficial if you are recycling your soil.

There are two ways to look at it:

1) Green sand takes almost a year to break down fully.

2) Green sand supplies plant-available nutrients for almost a whole year AS it breaks down.

 

[SpicySativa]

It's the sad story of an "organic" gardener stuck in the chemical, bottle-feeding hydro shop mentality...

The day you leave that bottle feeding mentality behind and start building up healthy, nutrient-rich soil, I promise you your plants will be happier. And with less effort on your part.

 

[habeeb]

^ can't say this entirely, as I've done .. well it all.

bottles can work just as good, as there basically fermented solutions, which work very very well. building a 'soil" works very very well also.

kinda like saying nike is the best shoe to wear... there's millions of people would argue the best is no shoe, or sandals, or who knows what... the best is what fits you.

lets admit if were growing plants in plastic pots.. talking what's the best organic is kinda out the window already




these absolute work , and might work so well there's the destruction being done harvesting guano.

I've also used these products, they work, but there simple solutions, like ones is kelp and humic... another is aminos, one is bone meal.... I'm all for "organic" bottle but some of these are just not needed and overkill, and could be simpler with there fewer bottle that has NPK's. let's also admit, there in Oergon, which means I'm sure a lot of people have been testing this around, the company is also a lot older then people might know... does he know everything, no, but his products do work regardless of what anyone might think...

I'm not one for someone thinking to know it all.. if the plant grows who gives a frack what you want to call this or that, or if your wrong.. the dumbest path you can take is one to trying to learn it all.

the guy is putting products out to grow weed. who else is trying to reach growers on a bigger scale?

 

[Microbeman]

No time to watch another guy with a table full of bottles and no real data. One thing, if they actually say molasses does not feed microbes, they need educating.

 

[dank.frank]

Another aspect - in regards to greensand and well, availability of any organic material - those time frames are based on what type of soil?

We take a plant whose natural growing cycle is from March - October, and condense that into a short 3-4 month time frame.

We in a sense do the same with our soils we make - we super charge these custom developed and extremely nurtured mediums to a point that they are far superior in a microbial sense and a nutritional sense than your average "dirt", and for that reason alone, many of the long term time frames in which organic materials become available are significantly reduced...

I've seen nutritional benefits of greensand within the 4-6 month window when testing my soils and recycling, etc...

That aside, greensand isn't just about nutrient provision - it's also about soil tilth - which is often overlooked...

Just wanted to make that side point...



dank.Frank

 

[habeeb]

I was trying to listen to some of it.. interesting to hear more stuff what's in the bottles.

he said bat guano is fine, there is just other ways to grow considering damage to the environment, he says himself it's a great source of P, and he's also mentioning it's mixed with cockroach shit since they live in the shit.. he just says he doesn't really promote it and it's for the people who use guano..

 

[Commonwealth]

I'm with Frank on the immediate benefits of greensand on soil structure.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I defend molasses. it is a great source of slow release carbs. no need to go over board on it though. I only add a shot glass to 40 gallons of water. for an instant shot of carbs i like raw sweet. Also something about molasses seems to help prevent lock out.

 

[il19z8rn4li1]

Blasphemy.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

Pure hogwash!

This shit is just stupid. They make books for a reason.

 

[somerandom]

Sounds like the company spends a lot of time trying to get people to use their products by discrediting things that have worked for a lot longer than they have been around...
dank.Frank

I had bought this kit before i watched the videos. I simply asked the hydro store for some organic nutes and this is what the pointed me to. I felt it was reasonably priced ($50 for 6 different liters, an organic ph up and kelp extract) believe it or not they never push anything on me and their prices are often less than what i can get them for on the internet.

i didnt watch it cause I have tried their products which left my plants deficient.. and it stinks fierce after the mint wears off

Did you use it in soil ? if so what is the mix you use? I'm not trying to discredit you but he does mention if there are problem it's most likely the soil and not the nutes though what company wouldn't ? Im aware they will eventually wreak as i used to use general organics bio line.I switched to technaflora BC line because a friend was getting much better results than me. I will most likely try an run the nectar well because i bought them and it seems there is some good stuff in there, a lot of which is used in living soil. Hell i'm not even sure if my soil is any good but when things go right i do seem to get what i consider good results. Any comments on my mix?
20 cups happy frog
24 cups sunshine mix #4 (black bag, seems i should be using the white bag though)
8 cups ewc
9 cups extra chunky perlite
3 tbls espoma lime
2 tbls jobes calcium carb lime

I mix this in 5 gallon buckets at a time

I couldn't take more than about 5 minutes of that video.. That guy is absolutely talking out of his ass. Pure pseudoscience. Not surprising, considering he's there for the sole purpose of pushing his product.

*Molasses feeds soil microbes. We know this.

*Guano is great fertilizer. If it wasn't, why would entire wars have been fought over it? He was at least slightly correct about the environmental issues associated with guano. I no longer use guano for this reason.

*His talk of Cal and Mag just made me laugh out loud! Throw in the word "chelate" every now and then, and people will think you sound smart (even if you don't seem to have any grasp on what the word means).

Funny shit...

To the OP, I would STRONGLY recommend skipping the bottled organic nutrients and going straight to a REAL organic system where your nutrients are composted into the soil.

So i will continue to use either floranectar or humboldt honey es, If i find there is no added benefit to using these over molasses i will switch.

I guess i will skip the bat guano. I'm sure there are just as good of tea recipes without it. From the sounds of it seabird shit would be a good substitute and it's non destructive. I just recently found this site and i bought a big pump ( 110lpm ) at least to me for my needs, not sure if i'm going to use airstones or try to build one of those ACT machines.

I admit he got me on the cal/mag thing it seems to be the be all end all default response here for all things growing and then some.
Cars not running right ? add cal/mag the more i learn here the more i learn that i don't know shit but i do know what chelate means.I must read several hours a day here. read,read,read,more reading. I'm a little overwhelmed to say the least, the amount of knowledge people share here is astounding. So glad i found this place

I would love to mix living soil and i bought a supersoil kit before i found this site , I'm not even sure it's any good but it's a start. My current situation doesn't allow me to be able to mix up a 100 gallon batch.

There seems to be some good shit in the nectar line and there has got to be something living in my soil mix above no ? I would just like to feed them.

I will use the green sand when the time comes.

It's the sad story of an "organic" gardener stuck in the chemical, bottle-feeding hydro shop mentality...

The day you leave that bottle feeding mentality behind and start building up healthy, nutrient-rich soil, I promise you your plants will be happier. And with less effort on your part.

I'm not stuck in that mentality. I'm headed in the right direction.The store is the one encouraging me me toward the living soil. They know eventually I'll only be buying soil, and amendments there , and as i said above they really have never pushed anything on me and their prices are as good or better than anywhere including the internet.

No time to watch another guy with a table full of bottles and no real data. One thing, if they actually say molasses does not feed microbes, they need educating.

He did say it feeds the colony but that the chain is so big in molasses that it does them more harm than good because it takes so long for them to break it down to be usable to the plant. He wondered why he wasn't getting the yields he thought he should and through his tests saw that black strap molasses was smothering his
mycorrhizae like a tar. If i had a microscope and mycorrhizae this should be easy to debunk. I understand it's a promo video and there isn't any data.

Another aspect - in regards to greensand and well, availability of any organic material - those time frames are based on what type of soil?

We take a plant whose natural growing cycle is from March - October, and condense that into a short 3-4 month time frame.

We in a sense do the same with our soils we make - we super charge these custom developed and extremely nurtured mediums to a point that they are far superior in a microbial sense and a nutritional sense than your average "dirt", and for that reason alone, many of the long term time frames in which organic materials become available are significantly reduced...

I've seen nutritional benefits of greensand within the 4-6 month window when testing my soils and recycling, etc...

That aside, greensand isn't just about nutrient provision - it's also about soil tilth - which is often overlooked...

Just wanted to make that side point...



dank.Frank

Thank you for sharing . From the short time i have been here i'm learned who to listen to and your one of them. I did come across the threads where you came up with a bag of amendments and i would buy them if they were available. For now i'm going to start out with supersoil (hides) when i'm able to because i had already bought a kit to do so before i found this site.

I was trying to listen to some of it.. interesting to hear more stuff what's in the bottles.

he said bat guano is fine, there is just other ways to grow considering damage to the environment, he says himself it's a great source of P, and he's also mentioning it's mixed with cockroach shit since they live in the shit.. he just says he doesn't really promote it and it's for the people who use guano..

It does seem like there's some good stuff in there from my very limited knowledge, a lot of the same stuff used in living soils.
I won't use the bat guano after hearing how some companies go about extracting it.

I defend molasses. it is a great source of slow release carbs. no need to go over board on it though. I only add a shot glass to 40 gallons of water. for an instant shot of carbs i like raw sweet. Also something about molasses seems to help prevent lock out.

So i will continue to use either floranectar or humboldt honey es, If i find there is no added benefit to using these over molasses i will switch. I have only recently become more serious about this ( 3 years) yup a newb. I wonder if have been adding to much of the above , though i have never had lockout. Knocks on wood.



Wow that took a wicked long time and i'm not even baked

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond . This community is fantastic !!!! back to reading. thank you

 

[Easy7]

Total bull. Guano is very active, does a world of difference. Mollasses is very helpful to the plant and the bacteria colonies. You can grow a lot of funky things in diluted molasses. Greensand has a lot of k, it breaks down quicker than you think. The silica takes the most time, that's from the greensand.

Just more reason to let soil admendments take their time, only gets better with time and more additions. To a point of course.

 

[supermanlives]

I would like to rub some guano on his face.