Aquaponics Rocks

[muddy waters]

TH--thanks for your numbers, man. how many goldfish/plecos would equal 1 lb, do you think?

the system is coming along, but i've decided to do a grow-out in dirt to select a mum, then i'll clone her into 6 hopefully uniform clones to begin the aqua trials. i'm delaying the start of the aqua just because i want to fine tune that badboy to the proper specs and not rush it. i'm having a bitch of a time cutting the vinyl hose cleanly and making the drip holes with the drill. now i see why you asked about that. it's hard to get the hole uniform and in the place i want it. gonna try using heat on the drill bit and see if that persuades the fucker. i still wish i could fine classic black polyethylene hose but i gotta buy 100 meters of it and my aqua system needs about 1. anyway...

NT & RM i appreciate all the technical info on water characteristics. learning a lot here from this discussion.

 

[Guest]

I just got clones with roots and straight into 12/12 for buds on a stick. Worked well, but look at what happened when I did that with Jack Herer! I'd give a skunk predominant a week or so veg to get a few shoots then flip it. They'll want plenty of medium to get their teeth (roots) into.

That circulations the key.

100 metres of pipe huh, I've had similar when offered 30 metres of 25 mm when I only needed 2. If the nylon folds flat you'll strike problems, I can't really specify but it's raised flags for several folks in various forums when applied to hydro. I think any crease would provide a nursing ground for the bio filter to get good purchase and subsequent thickness.

Approximate the fish of yours to a pound of butter, imagine they are sardines and see how much you got. Go slightly over rather than under. Changeout water every few days till plants roots establish if entire crop is planted together. Big water changeout at harvest and maybe even removal of a fish or two.

Be wary of light levels in your fish too much algae sucks. Also, keep close eye on temperature of water it's a v small system and pump could overheat it easily causing oxygen depletion and subsequent problems.

 

[RM - aquagrower]

thanks for that great post NT. after reading it several times. along with re-reading BT's water quality post again, it's starting to make sense. K+ to ya.

i've never checked the GH, KH, or the TDS of my tap water. just kinda assumed that because my fish tanks have been stable for a couple of years, everything must be fine. didn't take into account that reg water changes could be what was keeping it stable. i'll be getting some more testing supplys and we'll see.

by the way, where do ya get potassium bicarbonate?

just to clearify, i don't use the lava in the net cups. i use it in the external bio filter. that's the trash can on the left.



ya know, it very well could be that i got a bit of root rot and just didn't know it. the ph drift was fairly slow until just a few weeks ago, then it got progressivily faster. i've still got one plant to harvest, so i'll be doing the autopsy that ya recomend. i did notice that the roots on the other plants completely enveloped the bubble wands in the tubs.

 

[Guest]

Hope it tweaks out for you. I'm quite sure your diagnosis of the lava rock is correct.

I have my loupe, typed I had 6 weeks flower few posts back it was 8 now it's 9 weeks - only just getting one or two milky trichs (of dozens I view) looks like it'll be bang on in 10 weeks I'll check daily. Neat toy - I love examining insects with it they are alien lil f***ers aren't they!

Plans finished for Greenhouse. Like you RM, I did plan plan plan for over two years trying to get each aspect right. I'm most pleased with several of my design features and will take it slowly and step by step as construction develops to try foresee anything I've not encountered in my imaginings.

If someone make an organic pesticide that actually works you'll be a very rich person!

 

[muddy waters]

THSeek--organic pesticide? get some tobacco without any chemical additives, something like american spirit or some rolling tobacco, and steep it in water for half a day or so. then strain out the tobacco and use the juice in a spray bottle.

hasn't worked on spider mites (for me), but gets rid of pretty much everything else. by that i mean aphids, thrips, and some of the more exotic shit we have here in s. america. maybe not a good idea to use on budding plants unless you want your weed to taste like a spliff.

hope that helps...

 

[RM - aquagrower]

hey guys, been out of town a couple of days. hope all's well.

mw,
good call on the tobacco tea, now that ya mention it, i think that i've heard that before.

did a bit of checking up for ya, and it seems that a 1-1/2" feeder gold fish weighs in at about a gram, while a 3 incher goes about 7.5 grams.

 

[Guest]

I would advise against using tobacco tea. There is a chance of transmitting tobacco mosaic virus.

 

[Guest]

Well, I've tried pepper and garlic and soap and yes tobacco plus shop bought items over the years, none of these remove thrip completely.

This next plant is dynamite, lucky for it or it'd be curtains for JH in the growroom. Being cloned from the same Mum I figure the difference was in the ventilation and subsequent temps (82 at flower tops not 88). Also, barely supplemented. I do not think the lack of EJ affected potency as the Superskunk got additives and it was unbelievably strong.

This JH now has a rush, it keeps surging on for 15 minutes, feels blissful, and lasts 5-6 hours. Takes a while to be tolerant to it so you aren't still groggy next day if you hit it hard night before.

Still a few days to go too.

Back to organics, I've read everything I could find and tried so many home brews it's disheartening. I've not given up, I just don't think there's a decent product out there yet, well, here anyway.

We can't get IGR's. These can't be certified as they are synthetic, but they seem the way to go to really kill off insect populations without covering the plants in copious amounts of crap.

Tobacco is a nasty option too, hundreds of chemicals, what leaches out and what doesn't? Am I killing insects with cyanide and arsenic?!! Yikes!

 

[El Spartico]

Things seem well.

@ RM. Lava rock is inert, so thats not yer problem. My best guess would be that your local water supply has changed with the season. Rain is a killer. Boost yer KH as nt said with some Baking Soda. I do believe its 1 tsp per 5 gallons to raise the ppm approx 15. Testing really is the only way to be sure.

Take it easy fellas.

 

[Guest]

Must disagree here. Baking soda = SODIUM Bicarbonate. - NO for Aqua.

Test your lava rock RM - I bet it does change pH. BT spends huge time on everything he does, it'll be accurate.

 

[Guest]

oh - NT does Mosaic virus hit MJ too i know it as a tomato problem.

 

[Guest]

Seek- I have heard TMV hitting cannabis before, but never experienced it. Tomatoes are very susceptible, and have experienced it there. Best bet would be to stay away from tobacco teas. And if you smoke, never do it near your grow and always wash hands thoroughly prior to handling the plants. There is no recovery... if you get TMV you basically have to scrap all plants, thoroughly disinfect, and start all over again. In my (soil) vegetable garden a number of years ago, TMV hit my tomatoes early in the season, I scrapped them and replanted with store bought plants, two weeks later they were infected too. Don't know if it was in the soil or what, but I never could get tomatoes to do well in that plot again (that season, next year everything was cool).

Thoroughly agree regarding sodium bicarbonate. ESPECIALLY in aquaponics. If you are doing a regular hydro grow and dumping your res every two weeks, you may be able to get away with baking soda, but in aqua, or any system where res changes are rare if ever, that's WAY too much sodium.

Also, a while back you said continuos drip was 20% more efficient than E&F. I saw a report similar to this in the aquaponics mailing list, but I just blew it off, because so many people grow mj in E&F. Do you have any source info on this? The only bad thing I can see about E&F in aqua is that the nitrifying bacteria may not be as efficient, since the effluent isn't continuously cycling through the bio-field. I never noticed a problem with my small-scale experiments, but they used an established aquarium with a filter, so the grow media wasn't necessary for nitrification. My new large scale vegetable aquaponic system took two months to cycle, and I'm crossing my fingers that I won't see NH3 or NO2 spikes as the fish age and the bio-load increases.

On that note, how much fish keeping experience do you all have? I am relatively new to the hobby (just over a year), and use natural planted aquariums rather than high tech, high light, gravel susbstrate, CO2 enriched aquariums. I saw the first tilapia fry in the tank a few days ago. Good for them, bad for me. I need to get off my lazy but and sex the fish and pull the females and fry, or else I'll have a tank full of stunted, overcrowded, poop machines here really soon. I've got to set up a breeding tank, I'm thinking four females and one male in a 100+ gallon tank with NFT lettuce and spinach for filters.

RM - please test your rocks. With no experience whatsoever, I'm going to through my hat in with El Spartico on this one, but I could easily be wrong. Is it possible that your biofilter is designed poorly... it's hard to tell from the picture you provided how it works. Does it clog up or get anaerobic? Lava rock is an excellent home for bacteria, but it seems like you might have issues with solid waste getting stuck in the pores and rotting unless you have high water flow. Do a search for fluidized bed filters, they look awesome. There are also do-it-yourself plans available, although a wet/dry filter would be easier to DIY. UVI uses big flow through beds of netting for biological filtration, but they seperate the solids from the effluent prior to bio-filtration.

Breeder Steve used to talk about using marshes for bio-filtration, but I can't remember any specifics. Does anyone remember details about how he constructed these. Or any specifics about his system? I hate the fact that my knowledge base is gone, and I'm too scatter brained to remember everything I read a year ago when researching.

Also, what ever happened with Hurtback? I would think that he would end up dabbling in aquaponics eventually, since he started with a fish-keeping background. I didn't really frequent overgrow unless there was something I couldn't find at CW, I just noticed that his threads on bio-buckets abruptly ended.

Do any of you use PGP?

Thanks all and have a great day.

 

[Guest]

Hurtback had issues with OG mentors being precious about who had the better system which he didn't care for he was just volunteering his info. And they were being c**** in my opinion so good for him leaving he contributed MAJORLY to grow systems we see today. (the good ones not the chemical dumps)

My computer not using links or smilies?.....

E&F info at http://www.hydroponics.com.au/back_issues/issue83.html

copy and paste should work.

Off t work see y'all later.

 

[muddy waters]

NT & everyone else:

speaking of mosaic virus (i use tobacco tea a lot and never got it yet, knock on wood), my plants have some sort of infection that i have not been able to identify.

it takes the form of orange, rust-like spots on the leaves, visible both on the top and the bottom, eventually resulting in a small hole and in serious cases spreading throughout the leaf, causing necrosis and failure. most of the time though it's innocuous, just a small orange speck.

i've assumed this is some sort of rust fungus, but have never been able to find any info on exactly what it is or how to treat it. i've sprayed with aerated worm castings tea, reasonably effective on powdery mildew, but the specks remained.

am i correct in assuming this is a fungus, if it's eating holes through the fan leaves? could a virus do that? and if it's a fungus, are there any organic solutions for killing it or getting it overrun with bacteria (that's what i was trying with the castings tea spray, not sure if it helped any though)... i have some pictures i can post though the specks are so small that even on micro i couldn't get them very visible. if need be i'll post.

i know this has nothing to do with aquaponics but we've got a good thing goin so what the hell... it'll eventually be an aquaponics problem once these soil plants are flowered and the new clones begin in the aquaponic system--i've had this leaf spot deal on almost every plant i've grown over a span of 2 years here...

thanks for any help

 

[muddy waters]

also NT-- do you use planted aquaria for your aquaponics grows? aren't the aquatic plants using ammonia that would eventually provide nitrogen to your grow? have you taken this into account?

i just bought a few aquatic plants for the hell of it (they were cheap) but i don't know where they're going yet. i imagined it would be best to leave all the nutes to my cannabis crop though, not to mention the aquatic plants probably have some oxygen demand too... or do they?

 

[Guest]

MW- Its hard to say prior to seeing the pics, but from your description, it sounds like you have TMV! You description fits it to a T. Here's a pic of what it looks like on tobacco plants:



and tomatoes:



Hate to say it dude, but if you want to get rid of it, it's time to slash and burn. It's a virus, there is no cure.

Also, yes, I use a natural planted aquarium for aquaponics. I just have a slightly higher stocking rate and I have found that it's actually beneficial, especially if you are monocropping in aquaponics. Aquatic plants produce far more O2 than they consume, but it's really a moot point. Rapid circulation causes gas exchange, so the O2 levels are what they are, regardless of help from plants or not. What plants do you have? If they are rooting plants, put them in small pots with a 1 inch layer of UNFERTILIZED topsoil topped by one inch of aquarium gravel or equivalent size gravel. Fertilized soil will leach too many nutrients into the water column. Stay away from any soil with high levels of bark or plant material, as their decomposition will produce H2S, which is very bad for fish.

Good luck and I hope you get your situation figured out.

 

[Guest]

This virus brings up an interesting point with aquaponics, and not a good one.

Systems run far better with continuous cropping. Any systemic disease that is treated by a total cleanout will set you back a lot due to the time needed to re-create the now defunct bio-filtration.

In addition to this fish populations will become endangered upon removal of all their filtration. This counts especially for DWC systems where the total water volume is far higher than the actual fish tanks water.

I envisage a spawning/backup pond in larger systems and a quarantine/spare tank for smaller.

The real question is, do fish carry tmv and other?

I just harvested the next 2 plants. One grew 2 big ass buds on sticks and some nuggets all down below. the other was a Beast I found 2 more budrot spots nothing major the total size of this thing surprised me and I've been looking at it most every day.

The other 2 budrot spots were nowhere near where I'd pruned late. I think I better read some tree growers threads and learn how to keep these coke cans happy till the end. Huge buds and very tight up top. Lower buds are ok, popcorn is airy.

 

[muddy waters]

my spotted leaves

my spotted leaves

wow, let's see if we can identify what this is...

these spots appear on certain leaf blades comprising i'd say 10% of my plants' total leaves. i have had this thing, whatever it is, on almost every plant i've grown here. i have seen the spots spread dramatically and cause leaf necrosis but these spots here haven't spread at all, they're all very isolated. i've treated the leaf surfaces to aerated castings tea, kelp tea, and also reduced misting to 0 to reduce humidity. i didn't observe any change from any of the treatments.

 

[muddy waters]

i should add that i haven't used tobacco tea at all on any of these plants and they are all grown from seed.

 

[Guest]

Well, I wish I could help you... I've never seen TMV on cannabis before, but that doesn't look like TMV to me. Don't know what it is.

A few questions:
1) If you remove the affected leaves, will it still show up on newer growth?
2) Do you reuse soil/medium?
3) Do you scrub down the grow area in between grows, or clean periodically if you have a perpetual harvest?
4) You mentioned sometimes it spreads profusely and sometimes it remains in check... is the difference the strain, treatments, or what?
5) Do you know anyone else that grows near you and do they have similar problems?