America the beautiful

[Guest]

Hey Folks,
With a little time to kill today, I visited an Australian chat room and I had never heard so much anti-American propaganda in my life. I sat in disgust, as I listened to over a dozen aussies in a regular, non-political chat room disrespect the United States in every shape, form and fashion imagineable. These folks were saying all Americans have blood on their hands now, and that we are a blood thirsty nation etc.
It was disgusting! I was in the US military, I served my country and I take great in that fact. The United States of America, to me is the greatest nation on earth. There is no eutopia, a perfect society! Everyone has their pitfalls, but at the end of the day there is not another country on this planet I would rather live in. I have been all over the world, and I wouldnt dream of living any other place. There were even Americans, in this Australian chatroom participating in bashing our great country. They were agreeing with everything said about the US, I still sit in shock at this very moment at the utter bullshit I was hearing from these folks.

disturbed

 

[Skip]

Hey Outlaw,
You should visit hipforums.com if you really want to see some US bashing. I used to lead the charge (don't have much time now). See the America Attacks forum.

"I have been all over the world, and I wouldnt dream of living any other place."

Don't know how long it's been since you were out and about, but America bashing is going on all over the world. Most everyone outside the US hates Bush & the US gov't, AND those who support it. Most are smart enough to know that not all Americans support the oppressive foreign policies & imperialism.

In fact I find many Europeans know more about America than Americans do! And of course most Americans know very little about the rest of the world. Why? Cause unlike you and me they don't travel outside the US.

Quick Stat: Only about 5% of Americans have passports. Over 90% of Brits have passports. What does that tell you?

So when you get someone like Bush who was (and still is) incredibly ignorant about the world, put in charge of the world's largest military & economy & foreign policy, then starting NEW WARS around the planet without even consulting their long-standing allies (except ol' Blair - who followed obediently), you are going to get massive resentment on a global scale, which is what you just happened to notice now. Where have you been? This outcry has been happening since BEFORE 9/11! Just shows how "sheltered" Americans are.

Also why is there NO MENTION on american media of the Pentagon's report about Global Warming and how that is the TRULY big threat facing the world? Have you seen it yet?

No? I guess that's because AMERICAN news is being censored by the US government (yeah, great country, censors important news just like Iran, Red China, Russia, etc). The Pentagon report has been kept out of the public domain by Bush & his cronies for over 4 months. It sets out the most dire scenarios for the world and recommends DRASTIC measures be taken to protect American interests in a world gone completely haywire thanks to American intrasigence over the environment.

Just one more reason to Hate BUSH and the US government.

I could give you a long list...

Here's a link:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1153513,00.html

Read it and weep for it is American shortsightedness & unwillingness to own up to Global Warming that is bringing about the destruction of our planet as we once knew it.

And yes, I too am an American. And the hipforums are my baby.

And yes, America bashing is ALLOWED here too.

I'm sorry Outlaw, but we all should get used to it.

I love the country (land), most of the people are cool, but the government is fascist and the policies repressive and we need a revolution there soon, cause Kerry will just bring more of the same corporate fascism & imperialism.

I hope this makes my position clear...

BTW, Outlaw when you were "all over the world", were you part of the US military machine at the time? That's how many Americans get to visit the world these days. Not as tourists, but as mercenaries paid to kill foreigners they've never met before. And you wonder why people don't like America?

 

[Guest]

Hello Skip,
Thanks for the reply
As for the sheltering, and all of that jazz you just mentioned......thats fine skip...but I happen to think your views are little radical, but afterall you are a self confessed anarchist lol
I stated before, I am not shocked of the anti american propaganda, but rather all the trash that is laid down at our feet. I think any attempt to infer I am somehow ignorant of this, or that... is quite hilarious, and presumptious considering the amount of time I spend thinking, reading and studying politics. Lets keep it civil, okay folks? And yes, even American bashing is allowed in my forum, as long as your prepared to respond back with intelligent reasoning, such as our anarchist friend skip.
As a matter of fact I was in the United States Military
The Bush administration does not hold true for all of America, have you visited America skip? I presume you have, and if you have you would know we are good people for the most part, and at no point are we blood thirsty killers. There was nothing the American public could do when Bush basically stole Florida from underneath Al Gores seat, and when war was waged on Iraq....many Americans, including myself were against it. But the Bush administration made that decision, not the American people. True American patriots are those who stand up for whats wrong, not those who conform to everything they hear, are told or have read. The America I know is a beautiful America, with good people and good times. The "American Military Machine" follows their orders Skip, they do what they are told. That is their job, to fulfill the orders they are given. Criticism of this Administration is one thing, but its highly ignorant to group all Americans into one little label as blood thirsty, oil grubbing burecrats. Visit the Smokey Mountains Skip, visit the Blue Ridge Mountains.....visit Yellow Stone National Park...get out of your car, and talk with the people there and you will see, our citizens are some of the best people on earth. Criticism of the administration is one thing, but lets not lump all Americans, and America in general in with bad seeds like Bush, who wasnt even democratically elected in the first place.

What was highly ironic about the Australians partaking in this US bashing, was the fact Australia sent troops to Iraq as well did England. And there were even smaller amounts of forces cent from other parts of the world, to blame it all on the US is unfair. Lets not forget though, the US was attacked on 9/11...we lost over 3 thousand US citizens. Where were you at on 9/11 Skip? Were you in the states? Near Washington? Well I was, and I can tell you I hope we never have to go through another day like that again. If that means stopping folks like Bin Laden, and even Saddam Hussein...than so be it......but I only support legitimate force, by appropriate means. I do not support anything the Bush administration has done, but I am proud to be an American, and have served in the United States Marine Corps.

take care my friend

Outlaw

 

[Skip]

The American system, a country supposedly "of the people, by the people, for the people" is now "of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations."

Anything else is just illusion.

As I said I am an American, and have LIVED in more states than most Americans can even spell correctly.

To me a "country" is nothing more than a granfalloon (illusion). It is an artificial device concocted to control people within an artificial boundary.

I am an anarchist who believes in the "power of the people", who share the power & responsibility in a collective fashion, rather than having it coalese into the hands of a very few.

I've watched America's great resources being overrun, exploited, polluted, destroyed for corporate greed. And what you see in America is just a hint of what is now occuring globally. Not so much by the local "people" but by multinational corporations who rape the land, stealing the resources of poor countries, and shipping them (mostly) to the ravenous, never satisified consumers of the good ol' USA who never get to see the damage nor the plight of the people in those countries who are ravaged by greedy corporations & those who buy their products.

See now Outlaw, you got me going again!

Everyone, let's keep the general America bashing to this thread, cause it really is a bit off the cannabis topic of this forum. Thanks!

You can bash America's cannabis policies all you want in other threads!

 

[BushyOldGrower]

I agree with you both

I agree with you both

All good points and so glad Bush bashing is cool here. I gotta upload a pic or two...later. BOG

 

[Guest]

Re: http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Re: http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Outlaw,
I am amazed that as a mod of a politics forum you are ignorant of the worldwide disgust of the imperial attitude of America. You also show arrogance when you find it incredulous to think "even Americans were participating".

Well, let me clear up your amazement
I was not shocked to hear the anti-american sentiment, but rather all the crap they were laying down solely as the fault of the United States. As for ignorant, your entire post reflects a negative attitude upon the United States to begin with. You sound like to me, to be one of the very same people I was listening too run their traps.

The arrogance you refer too Bazeado, is the fact that millions of men and women have died for the United States of America. For an American to talk some of the things this particular one was saying, disrespects all that those brave men and women fought and died for. Im sure he enjoyed his education here in the United States, and his middle class lifestyle...along with all the other extras that make the US so great. There were Americans agreeing that the US are baby killers, and that we are all blood thirsty murderers....this I find highly interesting, considering an American should know better than to say something, or even infer something to the effect all Americans want to do, is go to town on the rest of the world.

"and at no point are we blood thirsty killers" So what about your murder rate and the number of people you execute. American history is soaked in the blood of the Native Americans that were slaughtered too but i guess that was ok, them being savages and all.

You are trying to say the American public in general are folks who condone the murder rate? The murder rate has much more to do with poverty, education etc. than it does of reflecting the attitude of Americans. I think its rediculous to bring up the Native Americans that were slaughtered, and especially your brash assumption that I condone such actions....rather pathetic actually. You say your from the UK, but you audaciously bring up the Native American catastrophy as if your country somehow never did anything of the sort There have been native people slaughtered throughout history, and that time has long since passed. That was rather of bad taste to be honest, I have cherokee blood running in these veins, and your insinuations rather disgust me actually.
Do your whining about the folks who are executed, to the familys of the victims of these murderers.
I really think Australia and England have alot of problems themselves, maybe they should try to concentrate on their own mess before lecturing the US on ours. I have already said, the US is not birthday cake...no Eutopia...but tell me which one of you would rather being living in Afghanistan, or Iraq? How about Somalia? The Congo?
These Americans need to stop, and smell the flowers. The US built upon the lives of dead men and women. These people all fought and died for our country, to give us what we have today. If you are not greatful to live in this nation, i recommend you get out. Sure we have our problems, but they could be worse.

 

[Skip]

maybe they should try to concentrate on their own mess before lecturing the US on ours.

This is exactly what the world is trying to say to the US. "Mind Your Own Business" but it seems the US just won't listen. Even when 9/11 happens, you STILL don't get the message the rest of the world is sending you!

Instead the US lectures the world, and gets the world's governments to change their own laws to suit the US's imperialist policies.

Meanwhile the US ignores world bodies like the UN and the International Criminal Court, which are trying very hard to uphold HUMAN RIGHTS around the world, but the US believes it is somehow above these world bodies, and can do as it pleases, trampling human rights, invading soverign nations and killing as it pleases.

Well how many more 9/11s will it take for Americans to wake up? It seems you still haven't! (no offense intended)

If you are not greatful to live in this nation, i recommend you get out.

I AM OUT!

 

[Guest]

hey skip,
No offense taking my friend, I enjoy a chat as long as it stays respectful. I would not disagree with alot of the things you have said, but lumping all Americans in as cold blooded killers does not paint a picture that represents the truth.
When you fly 2 Jets in the Trade Centers, and send another into the pentagon I think your putting your noses in our business. When you kill 3,000 Americans, the world now knows we will respond back with force. If another 9/11 happens, dont believe for one second who will "wake up" and say, wow our foreign policys are really pissing people off! lol
If you punch us in the nose, we are going to knock you out. As I mentioned before, I dont support uni lateral action, and the Bush administration in general was a mistake from the beginning.
But American people are good people in general, some of the best folks on the planet. Thats what this entire thread was over, the fact so many of you lump the US government in, with the people of the US. Hate American policy, fine....hate Americans......rediculous.

What do you think would happen if the US just disapeared? Peace and harmony in the world? Give me a break
That would be the worst thing to possibly happen. The worlds economy would plunge into nothing, everyone and their son would be waging war for new dominance on the planet. Some people just dont know how good they have it, until they loose it all. I suspect alot of these American bashers, are folks who just dont know how good they have it.
But what is totally ironic about it all, was the fact they laid so many horrible feats at the hands of Americans solely....when Australia sent troops to fight as well. Its not as if they are innocent of anything, and they are not nearly perfect enough to start pointing fingers at America.
Britian on the other, lol! Need I say more? The british have had their hands on everything from Australia, India, the United States to China! Wake up my friends, no matter what country your from....your shit stinks too

Outlaw

 

[Skip]

Ah where to begin, Outlaw?

How about here...

If you punch us in the nose, we are going to knock you out.

Don't you even CARE why someone would WANT to punch you? Just react, don't think, right? That does seem to be the American way these days, unfortunately...

What do you think would happen if the US just disapeared? Peace and harmony in the world? Give me a break
That would be the worst thing to possibly happen. The worlds economy would plunge into nothing, everyone and their son would be waging war for new dominance on the planet. Some people just dont know how good they have it, until they loose it all.

This is EXACTLY what will happen. Read the link above to the Pentagon's SECRET REPORT about the future of the US & the world. Looks like the US will survive, but the rest of the world will suffer far worse thanks to the US ignorance.

And yes, Americans Do "have it good" at the moment. But that moment is passing fast. Look at what your $ is worth. It's going down for the count.

 

[Guest]

Im glad Ive sparked a little interest in the forum this morning

Im fully aware that there are reasons to why they would want to punch the US in the nose. But it doesnt stop there, because there is a why for everything someone does something.

As for the report you mention, its not so secret if you have ahold of it, is it? lol
Conspiracy theories now? Im not even going to get into all of that, I have friends who honestly believe in the New World Order.

Skip, you sound like a smart guy my friend. Were you educated in the United States? Did you ever go to the doctor here in the US? How about driven on your roads? Did you have to work long, hard hours as a youth, making almost nothing for your work? I could go on, and on about how great we have it here in America. If it wasnt for the United States and Russia, the worlds language would be German, heck maybe even Japanese. The entire world, as we know it today has been shaped by the United States of America. The very fact we are here, on the internet discussing this shows we all have had a pretty good life, inpart thanks to the US who didnt let the Japanese, or the Nazis take over the entire world. We stopped the british, who knows what the world would be like today if we had not of sent them back home across the pond.

In the end, we will just have to agree to disagree. My loyalty to the United States runs deep! I am a democrat, proud former United States Marine and proud US citizen. I take national pride very seriously.....because I have put blood, sweet and tears into making this country just a little bit better.

outlaw

 

[Guest]

Any chance of that last image being a t-shirt?

 

[Guest]

Propaganda is everywhere these days isnt it?

 

[Canna Wurms]

I think our problem in the US is our fucked up foreign policies.

WE SIMPLY CANNOT MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!

Both major political parties are guilty of this type of meddling in other country's affairs.

We should heed our founding father's warnings about foreign entanglements.

I fear it may be too late for that and we are now reaping what we have sown.

I also served my country in the military for 8 years. I used to be proud of that service, but I now see that I was a pawn in the very meddling that I now detest.

You live and you learn.

 

[grower54]

TO ALL YOU AMERICANS POSTING HERE:
REMEMBER......,. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
SOMEONE GAVE THEIR BLOOD FOR YOUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH
I'm sorry if some do not agree, but it's only my thought

 

[krusty]

too funny...

we can go back in history and find many flaws with almost any powerful nation...

dont matter if it was spears beeing chucked arround or missiles there will always be flaws when nations struggle for power/peace

but skip is kinda lost here....he is suggesting that usa should swallow 911 cause of what they did...i would gather what usa did in the gulf war over oil/money/ect...what the countries in the middle east do to each other is kinda fucked up....they will randomly kill anyone...yes women/children/ole folks/each other/suicide bombing....dont matter...and i just dont see this sorta actions beeing taken by the usa...

so skip how is it they deserve random acts like this on innocent lives??

so you say why is usa even over there fighting??? okies we agree its over oil .....but if it wasnt for usa demand on oil this wouldnt even be an issue.....and lets face it....these folks would never be able to builld the industies they currently have if it wasnt from outside help..

uhm ya my point....after gulf war few people i knew went over to work....it wasnt as tho they needed man power....but they needed educated workers....my one buddy told me they simply dont have the ability to educate people there to build/repair any of there facilities

also in the begining it was outside intrests that built the industies in these nations...probably the usa has dumped billions of dollars into these coutries helping them build up what they have today......i dont think it is fair for these countries to accept finacial and educated help to get the ball rolling then once the cash comes in simply turn there backs on contracts/the outside intrests....

and before you make some arguement about how these people built it themselves...why in hell have soo many from USA and Canada gone over there to help rebuild??? who put out the oil fires there after the gulf war?? i know it wasnt the locals

i dont like usa much...hell i dont even like my country all that much (canada) but to suggest that usa or any country deserves 911 shit on them is bullshit....i think as a webmaster you should have a wee bit more class then that.....i would imagine some people who read this thread may have lost a family member or something that day....as a fire fighter i felt i lost something that day ....

skip you get my pissant award of the day....

peace

krusty

 

[BushyOldGrower]

This was bound to happen but

This was bound to happen but

We gotta have free speech. Our ideas aren't gonna merge sometimes but Skip has class.

We all have our views and remember this. What we all have in common are 2 things. We all have one asshole and one opinion. This is the worst part of human nature on the physical.spiritual levels so watch out or you may find yourself speaking out of your ass.

Now let me cut some gas...

If you could see the commonalities we all have we would fare better. Forget your opinions if you can for a second.

What do we really want? To figure out who the devil is? Or do we want to find a solution to where we find ourselves now.

Do we bash what we blame and think that's the simple solution? Yes, because we are all simple minded do we act like the blind men feeling up that elephant. Stop and think.

How are we going to save the planet? What will eventually come in the future and how can we affect it?

All counties have corrupt gov'ts. Can we as a beginning agree on this? If so we need to consider some of our most basic assumptions. BOG

 

[krusty]

ya...i agree bog....we all got opinions/assholes

i also love the idea of having common ground.....i think every goverment has evilness in it...hence why mentioned prior i dislike my own goverment...even tho i think they are less evil/harmful then other countries

the reason i think canadian goverment is less evil then most is cause..well lets face it...our politicians are smart like tractor

which is also the reason why we will never better ourselves in this time/era we currently live in.....the people who care to make this a better place tend not to be so bright...not to say they are stupid...but having passion i have always found to limit your abilites to aquire goals in society...especially in politics....the ones who have the abilities/smarts tend to use there abilities to aquire resources which then they use to gain $$$$$$

even with myself...part of the reason why i retired form the "biz" was because i was unable to do evil shit.....i had these crazy ideas that people could all just work together....but in my case..and most guys in my world...greed fucked things up...and once you reach a certain level you have to either back off or turn into something you cant undue kinda thingy...

we live in a world that loves to bash people with sweet ideas...its as tho we realize that life sucks lately and i almost think when folks see people with pasion they get jealious or something...

guess maybe whe the enterpise can find us a new place to try from scratch then we might have a good chance of "getting allong" kinda thingy...til then i am too dumb to figure out some way of making shit better...

whats yer ideas bog??got any?? you secretly hiding a shuttle craft on us??

tehee

oh....and no matter what.....i still stick to my guns....you can discuss anything yas want...and skip may feel as tho it was okies for somone to do random acts of violence like 911....but as a webmaster hes out of line to not think how he might hurt somones feelings who is on his site.....he has some twisted opinion like that he should keep it to himself and show a wee bit of respect....and that is the problem with the net..too many keyboard jockeys who excrete there issues and fully enjoy trying to insult people because they hide behind a fireall never having to see the faces of the people they may effect.

again...some member fine....let them be an ass...but as a webmaster he should show class.....he has shown me 3 times now that he has no class (twice was shit between me and him)

peace

krusty

 

[ken]

i think what skip was trying to say, is if us foreign policy was a little less 'anti-muslim', especially as regards isreal/palestine, 9/11 would never have happend.

acts of terror, especially on that scale can never be justified, but they dont just do stuff like that cus they think its funny you know.

the usa going out declaring war on a couple of muslim nations afterwards just increases the terrorists recruiting power & makes things much worse.

 

[spudknocker]

ya...i agree bog....we all got opinions/assholes

i also love the idea of having common ground.....i think every goverment has evilness in it...hence why mentioned prior i dislike my own goverment...even tho i think they are less evil/harmful then other countries

the reason i think canadian goverment is less evil then most is cause..well lets face it...our politicians are smart like tractor

which is also the reason why we will never better ourselves in this time/era we currently live in.....the people who care to make this a better place tend not to be so bright...not to say they are stupid...but having passion i have always found to limit your abilites to aquire goals in society...especially in politics....the ones who have the abilities/smarts tend to use there abilities to aquire resources which then they use to gain $$$$$$

even with myself...part of the reason why i retired form the "biz" was because i was unable to do evil shit.....i had these crazy ideas that people could all just work together....but in my case..and most guys in my world...greed fucked things up...and once you reach a certain level you have to either back off or turn into something you cant undue kinda thingy...

we live in a world that loves to bash people with sweet ideas...its as tho we realize that life sucks lately and i almost think when folks see people with pasion they get jealious or something...

guess maybe whe the enterpise can find us a new place to try from scratch then we might have a good chance of "getting allong" kinda thingy...til then i am too dumb to figure out some way of making shit better...

whats yer ideas bog??got any?? you secretly hiding a shuttle craft on us??

tehee

oh....and no matter what.....i still stick to my guns....you can discuss anything yas want...and skip may feel as tho it was okies for somone to do random acts of violence like 911....but as a webmaster hes out of line to not think how he might hurt somones feelings who is on his site.....he has some twisted opinion like that he should keep it to himself and show a wee bit of respect....and that is the problem with the net..too many keyboard jockeys who excrete there issues and fully enjoy trying to insult people because they hide behind a fireall never having to see the faces of the people they may effect.

again...some member fine....let them be an ass...but as a webmaster he should show class.....he has shown me 3 times now that he has no class (twice was shit between me and him)

peace

krusty

our politicians are smart like tractor

ROTFLMAO...

 

[BushyOldGrower]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin in heaven?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin in heaven?

You see we have to get our heads out of the clouds and stop philosophising because philosophy is really a lot of justification for the oppression of the poor and the weak.

Fat rich men have come up with many theories of gov't and how we sacrifice our individual rights to the state in order to receive protection? BAH... more head in the clouds shit if you ask me.

Look at how the major religions have used the Churches to push the gov't line throughout history. False religion and Corrupt gov'ts are the rule on planet Earth.

How else could it be if you earthlings look at your history. You came from the jungle where the law of "fang and claw" taught you survival of the fittest.

When you built cities and formed gov'ts what sort of gov'ts would seem natural? War lords first in local areas then armies of countries. The building of armies is seen as normal even in time of peace. Tolstoy was different...

Bush stating that his favorite political philosopher was Jesus Christ was laughable. Jesus didn't believe in having standing armies and Switzerland has been the only country I know if that has followed the Jesus plan. Jesus wouldn't invade pre-emptively on a false pretense either. Bush lied!

Funny how the Swiss were never invaded. Perhaps it was the terrain but I think it was that they were no threat to anyone and they still could defend themselves with the Swiss Gaurd. Nothing really changes on this planet but soon it will.

These corrupt systems you have created like the UN are failing and economic war and then World War is on the near horizon; as beneath every hot war there was an economic war first. The US needs middle eastern oil and we are taking it. The world should wake up as American leaders plot to take over the rest.

Europe isn't dull minded so the economic war begins now. America deserves to be taken to task and if we think our enemies are irrational then perhaps we better study our history. BOG