Am I doing this right? E&F Rockwool Cubes and PBP

[RockyMountainHi]

Never worked with E&F or rockwool. But I hear really good things and I figgure with a lil help, even an old cranky guy can learn summtin different.

Here's the bad news - I sprouted 40 seeds and placed them gently into growdan plant starters that had been soaked in pH 5.5 tap. And rinsed them with 6.2 adjusted tap.

I am planning on letting them sprout in the starter plugs then moving the plug to 6-inch cubes.

I have 3 different areas - floro, 400MH on a mover and 1000W Hps on mover. - I want them into the 1000W area asap to finish vegging and let me get the room checked. (New room entirely, never had it running 100%)

So far temps in the room are stabile at 78F hiighs and 70-ish lows.

The starter plugs were pretty cool, (temp wise) I think due to evaporation, so I moved them back to the monitor - I'm trying to get the temps of the rockwool up to 77 or so. I move them back and forth - glad I have some time to spare at the moment.

I'm thinking I should let them sprout and get started to where roots are to the bottom of the plug - then give them a hom in a 6-in cube - veg a bit get my clones and sex then - they are all hermi seeds of some of BOG's work - so most will be hermi prone girls.


I plan on using Pure Blend Pro; Grow, Flower and Cal-Mag

My water for soil is stabilized at 6.2 to 6.3, TDS measures abuut 175 out of the tap.

How soon do I nute the water?
And with how much of what - and what pH for seedlings

I've reviewed threads on Rockwool and PBP - and will be reviewing again - I don't think I can endure another gardening catastrafee any time soon.

What am I forgetting?

Missing?

I know it's asking alot, but could I get some extra guidance and support?

This "Dro" stuff is scarry to ol dirt types just getting thier feet wet for the first time - and seedling are soo touchy.



Thanks!

 

[157]

the plugs are cool hit them with the juice when you have well established roots with only quarter strenght or less once you see the response you can gradually increase the nutes

 

[RockyMountainHi]

FARM-OUT 157 - I like hearing that! - one of the PBP threads said 5ml grow and I already know less is most always better. And asking for input when in doubt!

I'll get a couple pics up - gotta go do chores

 

[10k]

Everything in your plan sounds good RockyMountainHi, except for those g'damned bigass rockwool cubes.
They really really suck ass when used in an ebb & flow application ime.

The topic of using the big rockwool cubes in ebb & flow makes me sick. It's just a horribly awful combination. Gives me heartburn to even begin going into details again, but I've done so countless times here at icmag. So heres just a few of the things I've had to say over the years cut & pasted so as to reduce my need to go find a rolaid for the heartburn this topic gives me. I already have a headache from looking at a few of the past threads and remembering all the nightmares I and others have gone thru, so please take this advice to heart or you'll also be looking for the aspirins and rolaids in the future too.

The original design of rockwool is for drip feed placement on top of a slab. The minicubes once rooted in, get stuck into larger cubes (usually the 4"ones) and then the big cubes are placed onto large rw slabs laying in a slab tray which is supported slightly tilted. The slabs fiber structure runs horizontal and the cuibes structure runs vertically. The cubes are drip fed from the top and the slab pulls the excess wetness down and out of the cube drawing in air at the same time... the slight tilt of the tray, in turn, helps the excess wetness drain out of the slabs...again pulling air into the medium. Much like the hand watering method described above, air in the medium is "a good thing".

Little minicubes work great in growrocks, because they're small and the developing root system pretty much blows them apart as the plants get bigger, plus the rockage will 'wick' alot of the excess wetness out of the minicube just like a slab would in the original hydroponic design concept of rockwool. I've been preaching about it for years, but I'll shout it out again... Big rockwool cubes in ebb&flow just plain "sucks ass" in e&f, it stays way too wet, gets clogged up with algae and becomes a friggin nightmare for many growers who try using it in this 'wrong application'... so if the thought of running big cubes in ebb & flow ever crosses your mind...block it out..stay the hell away from the bigass rw cubes.

The big Grodan cubes originally were NEVER designed to be anywhere other then sitting on top of a rw slab in a slightly tilted tray, being top drip fed. THIS is when it really breathes correctly as it was designed to do. The slabs act on the cubes with a much better capillary action, causing the big cubes to drain correctly and to draw in air much more efficiently, allowing the medium to be almost perfect in air to moisture ratio. Without the slabs, the big cubes just dont function worth a damn, staying too wet, inviting algae growth (clogging similar to a finger on a straw) and poor root systems.

In ebb & flow, big cubes alone are an invitation to many problems if you compared them to a properly done ebb&flow system using expanded clay with rw minicubes which is far more superior in every way.

I've seen a several growers who ran the big cubes with success in e&f, but the vast majority of e&f experienced growers who've also used the minicubes in expanded clay, will never go back to running those big soppy wet, square peg in a round hole klunkers ever again!

hth,
10k

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Hiya 10K -

Thanks for stopping by, I have a couple of net pots and a big fookin bag of hydrotron balls from a previous, somewhat disapointing but very educational DWC attempt.

Let me go do some searchin and see what I can find.

Thankfully - if the pH and no nutes are ok - I should have a few days to review before I have to commit.

ok - so everybody knows what's comming,, I have 12 gallon resavoirs - I'm planning on aireating 24/7 and flooding as needed. I am debaiting putting a 1-inch thick co-co mat under the cubes when they go to flower - now we are debaiting cubes or hydrotron balls - which might also like a co-co mat. And if we debate - shouldn't we concider straight co-co?.

The flower area is dual 1000W HPS with Sun System hoods on a 5-foot light rail mover - and a fan pushing into a carbon scrubber, venting out of the room.

We also have a/c for the room.

Normally - I would be growing clones, but i'm tired of buying again and spoiled.

Let the debate contine.

 

[157]

place your starter cubes into a netpot filled with grow rocks and you should be cool i had terrible problems with the rockwool cubes with this sysystem i ound net pots to work best

 

[RockyMountainHi]

OK,, wellllllll, it says rockwool at the top of the page, and I bought the supplies - I gotta plan and after all, this is one quick grow of nearly 40 hermi seeds from some of my early grows. I have a new room to fill and it's going to take a little while to get everything up and on cue, So, with that in mind, We b growin

Seriously,

I started 38 sprouts And still have 38 plants,,, (healthy plants) so all of you who say rockwool don't work - it's working, probably better than my soil grows. Now I will admit I have a friend here in town that is guiding me - he has given me pH and nute levels and we have pretty much the same tap water. My major difference is he has been a floro only grower - - I got him to try a 400W recently and he's liking that,,, anyway,,,,, I tend to be from the max lumens school of growing with a minor in Hortilux, so there will be some adjusting needed.

I'll snap a couple pix of the lay out soon - it's starting to come together and yesterday, I had all 3000+ watts of light on at the same time and temps are holding at high 70's and low 80's - low-low 80's. The sprouts were happy under the dual 1000Ws, all the light , movers, fans and scrubbers were doing their jobs with reasonable quiet.
DAM - I'm STOKED.

OK - about the rockwool -

the starter plugs got pH's at 5.5 - the blocks were put in dry. (no presoak.) I didn't veg the sprouts at all before I set them into the blocks.

Now before anybody starts howling about that's not what growdan says or how much trouble I will have - these are the instructions I was given for the pH and nute levels I will be using. I am pretty sure I have some ideas for improvements during the next stage. I have a plan to do more time in the plugs prior to starting the cubes. More on that later. This round may just show what cam happen out of the box.

For the first few watering's I have been top watering, every other day, pH 6.2ish and EC is .8.
I rotate the between floro's, 400 M/H and some time under the HPS Just checking conditions throuought the grow room - so far - so good!

So far - I like it better than soil, I haven't lost a sprout yet.


More in a bit.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Ok got a couple quick picts

Gotta figgure out how to program the camera for the light compensation.

Here are 38 seedlings - about 2 weeks.





and,,,

 

[mrwags]

Looking good so far. Rockwool isn't so bad but I myself use rapid rooters and also throw in a little Green Fuse to helpout with the rooting. If your gonna use PBP you also gonna need some Liquid Karma. LK imo is one of the best bottles of Food you can have, it can be used for damn near anything and does wonders in getting your girls to use all the advantages of the PBP recipe.


My Penny
Mr.Wags

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Come back MrWaggs and tell me more about Liquid Karma - I checked it out at the store - it goes on sale next week.

Still haven't lost 1 plant.

I made 2 more units and moved 16 more under the 1000 HPS - (still vegging on 18/6)


Growth is - SWEEEEEEETTTT

Health and vigor are GREAT.

lets C if you agree:











Any ideas on how to ballance the lighting in the pix, - I finally got the lines out - working on good color now.

 

[4c4oToSyntheSiS]

Wagg is right! Lk is a great product. Only problem with LK, It stains damn near everything and if it's a rubbermaid container,HEh, Goodluck trying to get that shit off the wall, You really gotta stay ontop of cleaning that shit or else it can really make a mess of the res.I personally use it more as a foliar spray.. I hate cleaning the res, it's back breaking.

Other than the staining, i highly recommend having some around. Has a ton of yummie amino acids,Huvic acid, carb's. Stuff to really give your bucket a jump start.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Update-


Got a bottle of Liquid Karma - seems to be a lot of differing views of when to use it and how much to use.

my research tells me it drops the pH - I just mixed a couple batches - ec is .8 pH was 6.3 with out adding LK - or would it be better used earlier in the grow? Will I need to add pH up? I try to let the pH float between 5.9 and 6.4 or 6.5 - if it's close - it's fine.

TDS/EC starts out .8 / 700 ish and drifts down to 520 or so in 15 days -


as I'm moving and sizing - 15 days is too long between change outs

 

[dongle69]

I don't know why people are hatin' on the rockwool.
It works great for ebb and flow.
Grodan specifically recommends their 6x6x4 cube for ebb and flow.
The 4" height makes for a perfect fit for most tables' flood levels.
They do say that the 6" tall cubes can get salt buildup if you don't flood high enough.
Use a cover for the cubes and no algae to worry about.
I like the idea of no pots or medium to deal with.
I used to run ebb and flow rockwool extensively about 15 years ago.
I may go back once I've had my fill of coco.
As for the Liquid Karma lowering your ph, most nutes will do that.
I would suggest that you run it from start to finish.
It is a great tonic, along the lines of Floralicious Plus.
Your ph can swing from 5.5 to 6.5.
I wouldn't go lower as it causes problems with rockwool.
From Grodan:
Flushing the block with low pH water will dissolve the wool creating mushy spots, which then solidify into hard spots when correct pH water is used. Always use a pH range of 5.5–6.5 when watering.
Looks great so far!

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Hiya Dongle69

Yeah still have a ways to go, but it's making me look really good! So good in fact I cracked a full pack of ChemD X Bubba Kush that are going into starter plugs now. woooo! wooooooo!

I did a hand water thing to start, but once roots were to the bottom of the cube - they are ready for the flood.

Yeah started to get mold and yech but covering fixed all that - and if ya peek under the cover there are roots now.

I bought some fancy covers that are pretty easy to remove during the top watering phase - after they hit the flood n drain - I think I'll make some black plastic ones that fit better and don't blow around in the breeze

I did a compleate nute change-out and added 3 more E&F systems last night,,, this chore needs improvement... . - And fired up the second 1000. Temps went up to 80 under the 1000's and 75 over in the 400/floro side.

And I just had it ballance out with some nifty fan placment.
Back to the drawing board........

Anyway - to the nay-sayers - it's workin like a champ for me - it will run better when I can have all the same strain/clone lines in seperate tubs. this is just a shake down and refill my long depleated jar collection. I hate being outta stash.

Maybe by Haloween?

Maybe!

I still have some chores to do and a set of timing belts to replace on my Goldwing.

I'll be checking back.

Keep the shinny side up peeps!

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Two week update

Several changes in the room layout - lost a few square feet but hopefully I can flower and veg in the same room after today.

Complete nute change last night, boy was that a long day.


I lost 5 plants - had to give then to a friend!
I'm getting ready to flower and need the room - I did however say a prayer to the gods to bring the majority of females I so dearly hope for. He got some sweet plants


Still have not lost a single plant in the rockwool - I've got clones and seedlings now - and I get a couple that seems to have some nute related issues, - but even they are generally healthy-


Cracked a pack of CaptKryps ChemDXBubbaK got 9 sprouts - and they had a serious root growth pattern - they have been in 6-in blocks for 3 days - The Mazar S and the Doc's Mystery are still in starterplugs - just a note for later-

Shine on

High on a mountain,,,,,

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Greeting alll

checking in - I put 36 plants into flower last night. (7/19/09) Most of them should be Strawberry Diesel - I'm counting 70 days minimum - we will see. I'm building screens for the tubs - there are a few REALLY TALL plants. They will be a challange

I have a "porta wall" to section off the flower room - this room isn't working as smooth as I hoped - the plants however are doing quite well.

Time to go make the buds

more later

 

[RockyMountainHi]

wana C?

wellll ok,









I had 38 seed starts and 2 clones for a total of 40 plants - did not loose any thus far!!!! - My tubs have 4 ea of the Hugo blocks and I have almost enough room for 9 tubs. --Ok almost enough room to move and 9 tubs.

I had to give away 4 plants already to get down to 36.

I'd be a little glad to see a male or 4 - or 8 show up any day now. About 1/2 of the plants have alternating nodes.

I do believe the dry spell is nearly over.

I will update every couple weeks till harvest.

I will be growing with rockwool cubes in the future - I honestly believe - this system, growing clones and using coco mat under the r/w cubes will be the next stage in my progression. I was dearly tempted to use the coco mat this grow, but I want to be able to harvest each plant at it's peak.

new nute mix:

PBP grow
PBP Cal-mag
Botanicare original PB
Liquid Karma

and a smidge of pH down

Soon I'll change over to flower nutes

 

[EvilTwin]

You bet...post pix if you've got them. Sounds like an interesting grow...
ET

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Hiya EvilTwin - thanks for stoppin by.

What pix do ya wish to see?
We have a friend that can hook U up!

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Rocky,
When I made that post, the above pictures hadn't appeared yet. I was just responding to your query. Your plants look good. Very healthy looking and green. Can't quite tell how big they are but if you've got alternating nodes...then they're old enough for 12/12.

I do ebb and flow too, but with hydroton. Seen many great rockwool grows though. I use the little cubes for seed starting and cloning. Hope things continue nicely for you and I'll wait patiently for your updates. lol
Peace,
ET