Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter
- Thread starter pico
- Start date
darthvapor
Active member
interesting to see. I think the blockbuster is a better choice than the xxxl8 unless your in a tent. I like 3 400 watt ceramic metal halide over a 4X8 in veg then 3 600 watt over 4X8 in flower all in a super sun 2 hood. Great if you got a electronic/digital ballast than can switch from 400-600. all you gotta do is switch out the bulb.
Dorje113
Member
I'd go with blockbusters for 1000W on a 4x4... xxxl 8" is too big for this, IMO, and the BB will give you better penetration.
Quitters
Member
i have a Quantum and you dont have to switch out the bulb, you just turn it down, a 1000 uses a 1k bulb and the 600 uses a 600w bulb
darthvapor
Active member
I do I use 400watt ceramic metal halide in veg and a 600watt high pressure sodium in flower
I finally got my P.L. Light Maxima reflector up and here are some results for 18 and 21 inches. 3 x 3 foot grid, with 28 points. 4 rows, 7 columns.
Ballast used is 600w Lumatek, paired with a Ushio Hi-lux Gro Super HPS(very good bulb).
Measurements taken with the same FC gauge used by Pico.
18 Inches:
1.) 1490
2.) 1700
3.) 2130
4.) 2530
5.) 3010
6.) 3140
7.) 2610
8.) 2000
9.) 2980
10.) 4310
11.) 5190
12.) 4620
13.) 3420
14.) 2320
15.) 1630
16.) 2620
17.) 3760
18.) 4600
19.) 4200
20.) 3160
21.) 2270
22.) 1270
23.) 1560
24.) 2150
25.) 2790
26.) 3150
27.) 2730
28.) 2270
Average Reading: 2843 F.C.
21 Inches:
1.) 1500
2.) 1700
3.) 2300
4.) 2440
5.) 3120
6.) 2850
7.) 2600
8.) 1940
9.) 2630
10.) 3370
11.) 4030
12.) 3830
13.) 3200
14.) 2250
15.) 1510
16.) 2190
17.) 3010
18.) 3570
19.) 3420
20.) 2840
21.) 2100
22.) 1200
23.) 1410
24.) 1710
25.) 2060
26.) 2570
27.) 2450
28.) 2110
Average Reading: 2496 F.C.
If anyone knows how to do a 3d surface plot, please feel free to do so
Ballast used is 600w Lumatek, paired with a Ushio Hi-lux Gro Super HPS(very good bulb).
Measurements taken with the same FC gauge used by Pico.
18 Inches:
1.) 1490
2.) 1700
3.) 2130
4.) 2530
5.) 3010
6.) 3140
7.) 2610
8.) 2000
9.) 2980
10.) 4310
11.) 5190
12.) 4620
13.) 3420
14.) 2320
15.) 1630
16.) 2620
17.) 3760
18.) 4600
19.) 4200
20.) 3160
21.) 2270
22.) 1270
23.) 1560
24.) 2150
25.) 2790
26.) 3150
27.) 2730
28.) 2270
Average Reading: 2843 F.C.
21 Inches:
1.) 1500
2.) 1700
3.) 2300
4.) 2440
5.) 3120
6.) 2850
7.) 2600
8.) 1940
9.) 2630
10.) 3370
11.) 4030
12.) 3830
13.) 3200
14.) 2250
15.) 1510
16.) 2190
17.) 3010
18.) 3570
19.) 3420
20.) 2840
21.) 2100
22.) 1200
23.) 1410
24.) 1710
25.) 2060
26.) 2570
27.) 2450
28.) 2110
Average Reading: 2496 F.C.
If anyone knows how to do a 3d surface plot, please feel free to do so
Attachments
Now for some results from my Super Sun II. Same bulb, same ballast, same grid, etc.
18 inches:
1.) 2150
2.) 2530
3.) 3270
4.) 3280
5.) 3070
6.) 2370
7.) 1810
8.) 3550
9.) 4780
10.) 6060
11.) 6310
12.) 5710
13.) 4210
14.) 2650
15.) 3740
16.) 5250
17.) 6380
18.) 6640
19.) 6150
20.) 4580
21.) 2910
22.) 2210
23.) 2790
24.) 3150
25.) 3350
26.) 3150
27.) 2130
28.) 1620
Average Reading: 3778 F.C. !!!! Maximum reading obtained was 7300 F.C. directly under the bulb. Holy Shit! The Maxima topped out at 5300 F.C. directly under the bulb.
21 Inches:
1.) 2400
2.) 3020
3.) 3370
4.) 3400
5.) 3380
6.) 2700
7.) 2120
8.) 2810
9.) 4200
10.) 5060
11.) 5310
12.) 4900
13.) 3750
14.) 2660
15.) 3030
16.) 4470
17.) 5270
18.) 5510
19.) 5060
20.) 3990
21.) 2670
22.) 2550
23.) 3020
24.) 3380
25.) 3410
26.) 3100
27.) 2470
28.) 2120
Average Reading: 3530 F.C. Maximum reading directly under bulb was 6120 F.C.
It was actually difficult to take readings with the Super Sun II. The light was so blinding at times. Noticeably brighter over the Maxima.
Maybe P.L. has some better reflectors, but I paid out $185 to test it, and that doesn't include the air cooled shroud. Now Im gonna have to try and return it or sell it somehow. The dimpled aluminum might be the difference maker. I dont really know for sure though.
18 inches:
1.) 2150
2.) 2530
3.) 3270
4.) 3280
5.) 3070
6.) 2370
7.) 1810
8.) 3550
9.) 4780
10.) 6060
11.) 6310
12.) 5710
13.) 4210
14.) 2650
15.) 3740
16.) 5250
17.) 6380
18.) 6640
19.) 6150
20.) 4580
21.) 2910
22.) 2210
23.) 2790
24.) 3150
25.) 3350
26.) 3150
27.) 2130
28.) 1620
Average Reading: 3778 F.C. !!!! Maximum reading obtained was 7300 F.C. directly under the bulb. Holy Shit! The Maxima topped out at 5300 F.C. directly under the bulb.
21 Inches:
1.) 2400
2.) 3020
3.) 3370
4.) 3400
5.) 3380
6.) 2700
7.) 2120
8.) 2810
9.) 4200
10.) 5060
11.) 5310
12.) 4900
13.) 3750
14.) 2660
15.) 3030
16.) 4470
17.) 5270
18.) 5510
19.) 5060
20.) 3990
21.) 2670
22.) 2550
23.) 3020
24.) 3380
25.) 3410
26.) 3100
27.) 2470
28.) 2120
Average Reading: 3530 F.C. Maximum reading directly under bulb was 6120 F.C.
It was actually difficult to take readings with the Super Sun II. The light was so blinding at times. Noticeably brighter over the Maxima.
Maybe P.L. has some better reflectors, but I paid out $185 to test it, and that doesn't include the air cooled shroud. Now Im gonna have to try and return it or sell it somehow. The dimpled aluminum might be the difference maker. I dont really know for sure though.
Attachments
thanks Dave for the great figures.
Do you think a 1000 watt bulb in the PL Maxima would
change the output of the Maxima?
I thought it was designed for a 1000 watt & the shorter bulb
would throw the light off.
the Maxima looks sharp in your photo.....
Do you think a 1000 watt bulb in the PL Maxima would
change the output of the Maxima?
I thought it was designed for a 1000 watt & the shorter bulb
would throw the light off.
the Maxima looks sharp in your photo.....
Im sure a 1k bulb in any reflector would change the output
. P.L.'s website says all reflectors are suited for all bulbs from 150w-750w, and a 1000w Reflector for the 1k bulbs, so the Maxima should be good for any bulb.
With regards to your pm. The bulb was centered per directions on the socket. The socket was in as far as it would go, and about 20% of the bulb wasn't directly underneath the reflector. I believe that isn't a problem on the Super Sun II. I imagine that could adversely effect the output to some degree.
darthvapor
Active member
dave I had similar results testin the pl in 1000 watts. I sold my pl on craigslist. you could even trade it for clones. my top 2 reflectors would be supersun 2 and blockbuster
I have the PL Delta which I had to modify to take the CMH bulb.
The discharge tubes within the lamp glass are usually NOT straight.
when screwed into the mogul socket. The discharge tube should be direct over the
the v to get the best light & in the center of the fixture.
The Maxima & PL 1000 don't have the restrike V.
I'm pretty sure the Maxima is for 1k bulbs but I gotta check.
I suspect the 600 does not hit the 'sweet spot' on the Maxima
but I must check that myself.
I need 2 reflectors so I might side by side for a test..........
EDIT: Yah Dave I looked at your fine picture of the Maxima & the center of the 600 discharge tube must come to the center of the Maxima (even if you need new holes drilled &
make sure the discharge tube is level when you set the screws.
There's a little wiggle in the socket assy where u can set it just right.
The discharge tubes within the lamp glass are usually NOT straight.
when screwed into the mogul socket. The discharge tube should be direct over the
the v to get the best light & in the center of the fixture.
The Maxima & PL 1000 don't have the restrike V.
I'm pretty sure the Maxima is for 1k bulbs but I gotta check.
I suspect the 600 does not hit the 'sweet spot' on the Maxima
but I must check that myself.
I need 2 reflectors so I might side by side for a test..........
EDIT: Yah Dave I looked at your fine picture of the Maxima & the center of the 600 discharge tube must come to the center of the Maxima (even if you need new holes drilled &
make sure the discharge tube is level when you set the screws.
There's a little wiggle in the socket assy where u can set it just right.
tagged, nice thread!
Hi Dave,
I got an answer from PL on your Maxima test
Here's what PL Rep says:
1. The Maxima reflector is meant for a 1000 watt lamp only. Putting a 600 watt lamp in there does not allow the arc of the lamp to center correctly, therefore you will not achieve the proper uniformity that is built into all P.L. reflectors.
2. You would have been better off running a Deep or Delta reflector for superior uniformity (more even light spread over the the entire grid, no hot spots and uneven lighted areas). P.L. reflectors focus on the whole light grid, not just under the center of your light.
3. Take a look at the Sunlight reflector numbers you provided. You have two areas of "hot spots", #10,11 and 12 ... and #17, 18 and 19. Then you have uneven areas throughout the rest of the grid, with some pretty drastic fall off on the ends. Again, P.L. reflectors are meant to provide uniformity, thus your garden will grow more uniform. You can not comparison test this with a 600 watt lamp in a Maxima reflector because, again, it is not the proper reflector for the lamp.
4. Putting your light only 18" or even 21" over your plants is way too close. There are no plants that need that type of light. The absolute closest you should run your light systems is between 2 to 2-1/2 feet, but higher if your room is pretty hot. Your plants will not absorb that much light and will throw it off, plus you risk burning your plants.
5. In regards to the lamp, the Ushio has only a life rating of 5000 - 6000 hours and after about 4000 hours, the efficiency will drop anywhere from 8% to 10%. This is all quite low as compared to many other lamps on the market today. So while you may get a comparable initial lumens, it lacks in life expectancy and efficiency drop off.
Bottom line, your reflector is perfectly fine that you purchased, you just purchased the wrong reflector for the light system wattage. I think you would have seen amazing results if you had purchased the right reflector. I'm quite surprised the person who did your testing did not see the lamp was not properly mounted before going through all the testing.
I got an answer from PL on your Maxima test
Here's what PL Rep says:
1. The Maxima reflector is meant for a 1000 watt lamp only. Putting a 600 watt lamp in there does not allow the arc of the lamp to center correctly, therefore you will not achieve the proper uniformity that is built into all P.L. reflectors.
2. You would have been better off running a Deep or Delta reflector for superior uniformity (more even light spread over the the entire grid, no hot spots and uneven lighted areas). P.L. reflectors focus on the whole light grid, not just under the center of your light.
3. Take a look at the Sunlight reflector numbers you provided. You have two areas of "hot spots", #10,11 and 12 ... and #17, 18 and 19. Then you have uneven areas throughout the rest of the grid, with some pretty drastic fall off on the ends. Again, P.L. reflectors are meant to provide uniformity, thus your garden will grow more uniform. You can not comparison test this with a 600 watt lamp in a Maxima reflector because, again, it is not the proper reflector for the lamp.
4. Putting your light only 18" or even 21" over your plants is way too close. There are no plants that need that type of light. The absolute closest you should run your light systems is between 2 to 2-1/2 feet, but higher if your room is pretty hot. Your plants will not absorb that much light and will throw it off, plus you risk burning your plants.
5. In regards to the lamp, the Ushio has only a life rating of 5000 - 6000 hours and after about 4000 hours, the efficiency will drop anywhere from 8% to 10%. This is all quite low as compared to many other lamps on the market today. So while you may get a comparable initial lumens, it lacks in life expectancy and efficiency drop off.
Bottom line, your reflector is perfectly fine that you purchased, you just purchased the wrong reflector for the light system wattage. I think you would have seen amazing results if you had purchased the right reflector. I'm quite surprised the person who did your testing did not see the lamp was not properly mounted before going through all the testing.
Im sure a 1k bulb in any reflector would change the output
P.L.'s website says all reflectors are suited for all bulbs from 150w-750w, and a 1000w Reflector for the 1k bulbs, so the Maxima should be good for any bulb.
With regards to your pm. The bulb was centered per directions on the socket. The socket was in as far as it would go, and about 20% of the bulb wasn't directly underneath the reflector. I believe that isn't a problem on the Super Sun II. I imagine that could adversely effect the output to some degree.
I did the testing, and the 600w bulb was mounted as per directions. The socket did not go in any further than what was in the picture. Without knowing that the reflector is only designed for 1k bulbs, I dont see what I did wrong.
Thank you for writing P.L. and digging up this info about the wrong bulb. Unfortunately, I do not have a 1k ballast & bulb to test it out. If you get to test your Delta vs a Super Sun II soon, perhaps Ill hold off on returning my Maxima and retest later with a 1k ballast & bulb if money affords it.
W/ regards to the Ushio. It also has a 19000 hour life according to the documents in front of me. Where did you get these numbers? Ive used the bulb for about 3250 hours, which is 8 months and Its lost about 10% output at this point. Its actually one of the finer bulbs out there. Spurr loves it, and he knows his shit
. You saw how high my numbers were in the Super Sun II with that bulb.Yes, I think the PL rep is mistaken on the Ushio; they have the hour rating wrong.
Did the store say it was ok for 600 watts?
If so they are wrong on that & may take it back.
They can check with PL rep on that.
Did the store say it was ok for 600 watts?
If so they are wrong on that & may take it back.
They can check with PL rep on that.
The hydroshop will allow me to return it, but I may actually hold onto it a bit, and retest it with a 1k ballast in the near future. A certain someone has so graciously offered to loan me an Apogee Quantum sensor to calculate my DLI, but I will also use it for comparing the Super Sun II vs the Maxima.
Hopefully it will surprise me with a 1k in there. Someone posted a 3d surface plot of a P.L. deep before in this thread, and the spread was quite nice. If I can ever get my canopy even in the future, the Maximas more even coverage would be beneficial. Ill keep you updated on how things turn out.
B
Bob Smith
THANKS Pico for a ton of work, also knna for putting it in perspective.
I would observe that uniformity is my goal, to me the 24" data is smoother.
this is a post from the 420 Vertical forum:
After reading an authorative source stating that the actual light intensity with adjacient bulbs was too difficult to calculate, I followed his advice and directly measured the output of 4 600W HPS bulbs and 2 HPS + 2 MH conversion bulbs. Measurements were taken with an Extech LT300 light meter and corrected by the % difference between a new bulb's stated output and the meter reading (field calibration per the above author, citation lost). Note the meter reads between 500 and 630 nm so relative strength only is what is being measured and compared.
The v-scrog screen is 18" from the bulbs' CL, so that is the distance at which I measured the light intensity. The 4 bulbs are hung vertically to make up a 52" string, ~1" between the tip of one bulb and the next socket below it. The initial measurement 18" distant from the middle of the uppermost socket, and proceeded downards by the distance indicated.
distance .... 4 HPS .... 2 HPS + 2 MH
down, in. ... K Lux ..... K Lux
0 .............. 39 ......... 31 . . this is the midpoint of the top socket (4" from the ceiling)
6 .............. 60 ......... 52 . . the bulb midpoint
10 ............. 65 ......... 55 . . the bulb tip
14 ............. 75 ......... 59
20 ............. 88 ......... 66
24 ............. 86 ......... 63
28 ............. 76 ......... 62
35 ............. 77 ......... 60
39 ............. 70 ......... 53
42 ............. 64 ......... 53
48 ............. 53 ......... 51
52 ............. 43 ......... 41 . . tip of bottom bulb
I had originally intended to use 4 HPS bulbs, but it is clear I have more uniform lighting with the pairs of HPS and MH bulbs. It is also much more light than I had anticipated, probably 4 400W bulbs would be a better match for a 76" OD octagon; time will tell.
I would recommend using a light meter with stacked bulbs, doing so saved me a pile of grief.
Hortilux Super HPS LU600S - 88,000 lumens
Sunmaster Cool Delux conversion bulb LM.600W.U25.CDX - 50,000 lumens
Addendum: The bulbs had only 2 hours of run-in, not the 100 hr norm.
The chains in the photos has been replaced with 0.013" ss wire for reduced shading.
Anybody know what happened to this guy? I have four stacked 600s and my readings were fairly similar to his when I set them up as bare bulbs (2 HPS and 2 Dual Arcs, and I have the same digital light meter as darth), but I've now set them up in a vertical cooltube (if anyone would want those measurements, just lemme know).
BTW Pico, you're the man for starting this thread and doing all the work you did (and are still doing) - kudos to you.
B
Bob Smith
Aww hell, owed the readings to somebody on another website so just went and took them - bulbs were only running for 45 minutes, so take that into consideration (don't believe it's a material issue).
Took readings from 18" from the BULB (16" from the cooltube) from all four directions off of each bulb (at 90 degree angles, but directly perpendicular to the middle of the bulb), with four bulbs, for 16 total measurements.
^^^If this explanation is confusing, lemme know.
The bulbs (working from top to bottom) are dual arc, super hps, dual arc, and super hps (all used for <1 hour total).
The dual arcs put out 61K lumens and the HPS 90K, tested and verified bare bulbed with my light meter a week or two ago.
Location One (from top to bottom):
2340
3930
4050
3920
Location Two (same top to bottom):
2520
3770
3930
3840
Location Three:
2560
4210
3370
3850
Location Four:
2480
3650
3560
3810
Average:
Top Bulb (DA) - 2475
Second Bulb (HPS) - 3890
Third Bulb (DA) - 3727.5
Bottom Bulb (HPS) - 3855
P.S. - don't forget to wear your welding goggles when dealing with vertical bulbs, people.
Took readings from 18" from the BULB (16" from the cooltube) from all four directions off of each bulb (at 90 degree angles, but directly perpendicular to the middle of the bulb), with four bulbs, for 16 total measurements.
^^^If this explanation is confusing, lemme know.
The bulbs (working from top to bottom) are dual arc, super hps, dual arc, and super hps (all used for <1 hour total).
The dual arcs put out 61K lumens and the HPS 90K, tested and verified bare bulbed with my light meter a week or two ago.
Location One (from top to bottom):
2340
3930
4050
3920
Location Two (same top to bottom):
2520
3770
3930
3840
Location Three:
2560
4210
3370
3850
Location Four:
2480
3650
3560
3810
Average:
Top Bulb (DA) - 2475
Second Bulb (HPS) - 3890
Third Bulb (DA) - 3727.5
Bottom Bulb (HPS) - 3855
P.S. - don't forget to wear your welding goggles when dealing with vertical bulbs, people.
Attachments
