A study: "Effect of Substrate Depth on Vermicomposting"

[secondtry]

Hey,

Thanks. But I believe MM wrote he doesn't let the un-processed feedstock get deeper than 10 cm. That is what I have been saying this whole time. I am not trying to make this post into a "MM says" post, I hope it doesn't come across that way.

All the best

 

[mad librettist]

yeah, over 10cm was something you invented in the first place. I merely stated I used enough foodstock to heat the bin gently. It doesn't take that much bokashi compost to do that. As summer comes I will have to feed smaller batches more often.

By surfaces, I am referring to the fact I have a funnel made of polyester felt. It breathes. At the lower part of the funnel, even if you piled something higher than 10cm, it could never be more than 10cm from a breathing surface. get my drift? As you move higher up the bin, that changes, but by then you are close to the opening of the bin.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Second,

When you say 10 cm of foodstock, I gather you mean per feeding. I usually add a little extra fibrous material, or something with a high C:N ratio on top of the foodstock. A couple questions:

Is this common practice? Are you including this in the 10cm you speak of?

 

[secondtry]

Hello,

Here is a neat blog entry about winter window vermicycling:
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/winter-composting/winter-worm-windrow–02-22-10/


Here is the blog site I'm sure most of you know about:
http://www.redwormcomposting.com


Here is another good blog from Worm Power:
http://wormpowerorganics.blogspot.com


Pics of Worm Power vermicycling rows, he calls um' vermicompost digesters:
http://wormpowerorganics.blogspot.com/2009/03/vermicomposting-digesters-aka-worm-beds.html

 

[secondtry]

Hey Trich,

Second,

When you say 10 cm of foodstock, I gather you mean per feeding.

Yea but also over a few feedings, i.e., if you add more feedstock before the previous feedstock is fully processed and the combination of both instances of feedstock applications equal over 10-15 cm then there could be issues. Unless the feedstocks are not green, e.g., at Worm Power they compost the vermiculture feedstocks (corn silage and cow manure) so when they add it to worm bins it can be deeper than 10 cm because the feedstocks are already composted (but not fully decomposed; only a quick 2 day heat to kill pathogens and lower C:N) so the feedstocks won't heat up like it would if it was un-composted. The heat is more of an issue than the possibility of anaerobic levels.

In nature these types of worms tend to feed in the upper 30 cm of soil, they can go deeper but they tend to stay and feed near the surface.

I usually add a little extra fibrous material, or something with a high C:N ratio on top of the foodstock.

Why? What kind of feedstock do you use? C:N ratio for vermicycling is more of an issue for the microbes than the worms.

A couple questions:

Is this common practice? Are you including this in the 10cm you speak of?

I don't follow you, can you clarify for me? Is what common practice?

All the best

 

[mad librettist]

does anyone have data on whether or not a well populated bin produces less heat energy than a less populated one for the same amount of feedstock? (the energy becomes worms instead)

If my intuition is right, max feeding per cubic inch of bin should be a function of worm density per cubic inch.

casually, I can tell you my bins can take a lot of food without heating or going sour compared to when they were new.

 

[Trichgnomes]

I don't follow you, can you clarify for me? Is what common practice?

I was told when I started to add shredded paper or dead leaves to the top to cover up any kitchen scraps that I add. It's been working out for me, just curious if it is necessary or even ideal.

 

[mad librettist]

that depends trich. in spring and summer I always cover. But lately I have been feeding my bins and walking away. We'll see if i get fruit flies or gnats this spring with the bokashi compost.

I've also done away with the idea that I have to spread food in an even layer. So in my rubbermaid bin, I make a little ball of bokashi in the middle surrounded by worm castings. I'm not adding bedding really, just using old castings, and I never harvest so much I am out. Then again there is a lot of coco in there so maybe it doesn't apply to a better bedding. But I have noticed that castings as a bedding makes for some fast digestion.

I started feeding this way after pondering the lowly manure pile, and the way wigglers will be found in great numbers very deep into the pile or at the very bottom. So I started making little "manure" piles of bokashi, having decided that the shape of a pile is nature's engineering.

 

[secondtry]

Hey Trich,

I was told when I started to add shredded paper or dead leaves to the top to cover up any kitchen scraps that I add. It's been working out for me, just curious if it is necessary or even ideal.

Nah it's not necessary unless that is the only 'cover' for the kitchen scraps (i.e., feedstocks) because worms don't like light and it would help retain moisture. Both of those are high in organic carbon and low in nitrogen which will have lower microbial numbers, thus it's not a great source of food for worms.

Adding some type of paper or leaf shreds to bottom of bin as bedding when first starting the bin helps, but I don't see (or know of) any benefit to adding those types of materials once the vermicast has been built up below the level of feedstocks, besides what I wrote in the preceding paragraph.

I could see mixing the high C material with kitchen scraps (which are higher in N) to adjust the C:N ratio of feedstocks which can lower the bin temp by lowering the bacterial activity due to the increased C:N ratio.

I use a few Can-O-Worms and the cover keeps it plenty humid and dark in the bins so I don't add a top layer of carbon material like leafs or shredded paper. But adding a top layer shouldn't hurt anything and if it's working for you that's great.

HTH

 

[jaykush]

i cover my bins with leaf mold. loaded with microbes and the worms love it. sometimes they prefer the leaf mold cover to the scraps i add.

 

[mad librettist]

and I have to add, if you plan on keeping a bin in the kitchen, covering reduces or eliminates odor.

 

[Microbeman]

I always add a carbon layer over an assorted foodstock. It supplies a varied diet = fungi, bacteria/archaea & protozoa, whereas a high N sorce diet gives higher bacterial levels, one reason why SFI states that most castings are only bacterial. I've attached an interesting study concerning fungi counts in vermicompost compared to thermophylic compost. The study has some shortcomings as I recall. I think if they boosted their carbon input into the worm foodstock they would have even higher fungal counts.

Also as Mad said the layer keeps the odors and fly level down. Yes it is included in the 10 cm.

Wormpower has a beautiful set up 2nd. I'm jealous. We just scoop ours out with the front end loader.

 

[mad librettist]

MM, would char help, or is that not the idea?

 

[MrFista]

I like leaf mulch too, though had no papers to prove anything, I figured they help the fungi along and the worms like it.

Thanls for the reading MM/2nd.

Now, vocabulary for pedants.

I like bokashi silage. We have farms all over the place and we know what silage is. You americans should just bulldoze strips through the shittier neighbourhoods of your cities and install farms that ensile their grass so you know what the hell ML and I are talking about when we discuss bokashi bran.

Perhaps you could mow down a million wannabe gangsters and we could make fertiliser out of the body parts.

Does crack cocaine compost readily?

 

[secondtry]

i cover my bins with leaf mold. loaded with microbes and the worms love it. sometimes they prefer the leaf mold cover to the scraps i add.

I agree. Leaf mold is great. I thought he meant just dried leafs. Thanks.

 

[mad librettist]

I hope you don't think I'm nobody. I am someone who cares about words. deeply. unapologetically. enough to get annoyed at misguided elitism with a basis in historical ignorance. I'm sure 2ndtry feels just as strongly about what words mean to him.

back to me defending the worm bin bag. this thread was meant to dismiss the design, and IMO there are some flawed assumptions:

"depth" is "distance from the surface". The worm bin bag, because it is made of felt, which shares few properties with other container materials, does not have a depth measured exclusively from the upper opening. Because air exchange happens along the entire surface of the outer wall, depth in such a container should be described as the distance to the closest wall, not distance to the upper opening. As I use this design, the upper opening is actually the surface with the least exchange of air, since I keep a fitted piece of plastic directly on the surface to slow water loss. It should be seen more as a suspended mass of OM, not as a contained one. It works more like a pile than a bin. This also implies the design can not be expanded without changing the shape. The reduced surface area to volume ratio would become a problem.

take another look at the design, maybe with your mind open: