a little hydro help please..

[diggity-dank]

well it seems like everyone is doing KBS grows on here so i hope i can get a little help with this.. im very new to hydro so please bear with me..

ok well i built a little hydro setup like the one here... http://overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?t=273797
well after building it, it doesnt seems like it would work that well.

First of all, he designed it so the roots only stay in the 5" pots full of rockwool. I dont like this because it seems like the plants would wanna lets the roots go more.. This could cause it not to grow big.

2nd, correct me if im wrong here, i think having the drip lines drip onto the rockwool would allow the rockwool to pretty much filter the nutrients out of the water and hold a lot of nutrients and get all shitty.

so if anyone could let me know how they think this would work or some other opinions, that would be great.

ok next question would be, what kind of setup would you build for a little 'Mills Pride C13' cabinet with 250 watts? Keep in mind i will be starting with seeds so no SCROG yet.

Im thinking like [3-4] 3gal buckets in a DWC setup would work well.. i think the 5gal would be too high to begin with and not let me grow very high. So if i did this, would you have a main res or just fill each bucket up with nutes on their own?

please please please help a hydro newbie out here. i really wanna get away from soil due to the transplanting and huge messes. I also love the veg times for hydro. also, i wanna start some Lifesavers ASAP!

Right now i have...
- a couple rubbermaid bins
- [3] 6" netpots
- some rockwool
- lava rocks
- [2] air pumps
- lots of airstones
- 200gph water pump
- 70gph water pump
- and lots of seeds

coming in the mail soon...
- GH nutes (finally)

 

[Einsteinguy]

Hey diggity-dank

Newbie here also.

Look @ my pics and see if it is similar.

Let me know.

Einstein

 

[diggity-dank]

thanks einstein...

does anyone have any comments or anything about that other setup.. i was hoping to get this started today.

 

[diggity-dank]

guess ill take this over to OG.. thanks anyways..

 

[houdinihar]

hydro help

hydro help

i have grown hydro using a bubbler similar in configuration as the picture in the link you had. I don't use grow rocks or expensive grodan rockwool, I use some polyester matting from
Wal-mart sewing department to stick on the opening and hold my plants in place. This stuff is very porous and doesn't hold much water so it won't rot your roots. easy to sterilize or throw away and buy more new. Nice stuff.
houdinihar

 

[Hippo]

Hiya mate, only just see this so ill try to help.
Dunno how big of a system u want, u mention the XBS but also show a link to some little rubbermaids

I like nft for hydro personally, but that link is not my definition of nft anyway, i dont see why it shouldn't work though, however how well it will work is anyones guess. Imho i dont think its a great system by a long shot, if i read it right (i skimmed it tbh) its being fed by them drippers into the cubes right? well that means the top roots are just getting wet, the actual roots that take in most nutes are the at the ends and the root and the hairs, sounds like they are only gonna get nutes if they are dangling into the res part or if the drippers drip down onto em, which isnt a very efficent way of getting nutes in a plant.
Rockwool is good in some applications, it doesnt filter out anything that i know of, especially not nutes, for that system in the link though id probably turn it into a bubbler and use netpots n hydroton (tbh i wouldnt even use that system atall)

Ive tried most hydro setups in differant sizes and the best ive found for small scale apps is multi-duct nft trays and for your 250 watt size of job = the nft grow tanks: http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0330/NFT_Gro_Tanks.html
theres one that doesn't cost much atall and is perect for a 250 watt grow.
The growth rates in NFT are pretty damn hard to beat if u can keep the root temps and res temps right.
This is one of the most important things to think of when using these nft trays.
If u cant get these cool temps all the time nft systems will pretty much fuck ya plants after a little while if it gets too warm for too long, or if it gets too cold even although depending on how cold it ususally isnt as bad for them as too warm.
The best way that these work is if the nute/res temps are say 60-65F and u have to raise it a little with a fish tank heater.
I know u aint got an nft setup or the bits needed to make one, but if u gonna do a grow u might aswell make or get something thats worked well for many ppl, besides they are pretty good value them small kits, anyone who's used one will tell ya.
Hope that helps some
Hippo

 

[diggity-dank]

thanks for the replies guys!

houdinihar: ill take a look into that material... havnt seen anyone use it but it seems like anything would be better than rockwool.

Hiya mate, only just see this so ill try to help.
Dunno how big of a system u want, u mention the XBS but also show a link to some little rubbermaids

lol sorry...i meant that the only talk in the hydro section is about the 'XBS' Buckets.. and i didnt want a system like that...MUCH smaller... im growing in a wardrobe closet.

I like nft for hydro personally, but that link is not my definition of nft anyway, i dont see why it shouldn't work though, however how well it will work is anyones guess. Imho i dont think its a great system by a long shot, if i read it right (i skimmed it tbh) its being fed by them drippers into the cubes right? well that means the top roots are just getting wet, the actual roots that take in most nutes are the at the ends and the root and the hairs, sounds like they are only gonna get nutes if they are dangling into the res part or if the drippers drip down onto em, which isnt a very efficent way of getting nutes in a plant.

actually what this system make the plant do is JUST stay in the rockwool the WHOLE time. The maker said the roots wouldnt really try to get out of the pots. To me it doesnt seem like that would be a good idea.

got any links to a some instructions on how to build a good one? how many plants would you run? just a few? thanks!

 

[Captain Canibus]

KRUSTY is going to rip you a new one!

He has a lot of wisdom (experience) to offer. I came to the realization today that rockwool is bad. Really bad! His advice on GH nutes to me was priceless.

Realize THIS. Not everyone is using the KBS.

Just go for it. Do it. You can only succed if you learn from your failures. Make a commitment, start and learn. Your second attempt will be better than your first.

It is only my opinion, but it works for me. Just do it!!!

 

[diggity-dank]

KRUSTY is going to rip you a new one!

why? because im asking for advise?

Realize THIS. Not everyone is using the KBS.

i know..

dude i cant grow in krusty buckets... im in a small apt. it ISNT gonna happen.. thats why im asking for ideas for small setups...

i know rockwool is bad.. thats why i said i didnt wanna use that one i linked to... and thats why i said after i built it, i started thinking it wouldnt work and i wanted something else..

and i know GH nutes are good.. thats why i mentioned i ordered some already..

 

[krusty]

heyas diggity ....sorry didnt really notice yer thread....ussually if somone wants help they go "hey krusty" or something in either there title or pm linking me to yer thread

its the weekend and i am working

but i do have a system that is simular to the one you showed.....i talked about it a few times and it works great...i ussed to use it to pre grow plants for the buckets..

i even one time thru the system inside the grow room and budded them off and actually got some sweet large buds...

i use 2 rubber maid containers instead of one...but it is a simular idea to the link you provided...except i ussed round circles instead of squares.....i had 6 per bucket....and i ussed a valve system to turn on/off the top feed and also a valve to turn on/off the sprinklers i had in the rubber maids....

it works well if your on concrete floor to keep the container cool...

but if you are not on concrete i hugely suggest you have a resivoir and then a table ......this way you can try and keep the resivoir away form the heat generated by the room....and thus you will have cool roots instead of piss warm ones that tend to cause problems...

okies DWC sucks ass.....it works yes but it truely will never provide you with good quality or high yields per watt...

rockwool again...pain in the ass...unhealthy to yer body...its just an all arround cluster fuck

you want NFT....DWC will never allow you to have enough air to roots....so dotn even bother....only a dumb fuck who has a dwc set up would argue that there is anything better then NFT....and that would be cause he cant ahndle the idea of re setting up..

if you cannto grasp/trust me that NFT is the best/only way to grow hydroponically then the convo might as well stop here...

so let me know if yas want me to spend an hour figure'n out a system that would be right for your area/space n stuff....

let me know dimensions of the area your growwing in...and how much you can afford to buy equipment....maybe the current temps of the air/floor in the room you want to grow in....

then like i said i iwll come up with something for you....but again if yer that lost that you cannot see the reasons why rockwool suck or that dwc is lame....or you cannot see why NFT is the only way to grow properly i aint going to bother trying to beat a dead horse

peace

krusty

 

[krusty]

here is a couple of links to places wher ei have helped out with none bucket type systems....

http://www.icmag.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1865&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

http://www.icmag.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1843

and here is a post that i amde...was funny...bunch of trolls figured i couldnt put together a cabinet....so to proove them wrong i made this post off the top of my head....you will notice in this thread the trolls kinda just went quiet and shit..was funny


hippo - i have grown in literally every method that has been posted....i will admit that i never tried some specific methods....for instance i tried a cage system...but not coli system....


ebb and flo is cave man growwing...it aint bullshit...its truth...i have gone into the reasons many times in past....if you truely want to be brought up to speed on the techniques out there nowadays then fine i will tuitor you and explain why advanced growers (like myself) have stopped ussing flawwed ideas like ebb and flow and rockwoool years ago....even hydroponic stores admit they love these systems because it brings the customer back buying shit to try and fix the unfixable

and you obviously have no idea what i am about...MANY times i have helped folks with confined areas....

and in last few days i have given advice and suggestions and showed folks what is needed

and to repeat myself....to get LARGE AAA grade yields you need to veg.....you need a few weeks of veg...for me this means under perfect enviroments you will end up with 18-30 inches of growth...added to the clone/seedling growth you are getting fairly large to be putting this into a closet.....

so very simply...NO you cannot get large yilds and AAA grade (steress free) weed with small closet type grows...

so we do the best with what we got....maybe for shits n giggles i will design a cabinet grow ....i have seen a few here on the net that looked sorta okies...like an example is LL's cabinet ...but even he admits it is flawwed...

its simple...you would try and keep res temps at 70 F and have the roots FILMED with nutrients...yet keep the air temp where plants are at arround 80-85 F....again i would rather have 85-90F temps...but since this is a small cabinet and the area is confined then you need to give up a little bit...and 85-90 F temps would end up heating up the cabinet too much and the res would began to heat up...

the secret to a cabinet grow is to try and have as much res as possible....and to try and have as little amount of nutrients in root zone....this is so that when you try and insulate the res area it will keep cooler...thus more nutrients you have in this area the less they will heat up.....most cabinet systems i see DONT have propper insulation between the 3 zones....

i would have insulation between the plants and the root zone...something hard...we use this shit arround foundation walls..i think it is a r-12 rating...maybe r-10...nto sure dont have it in front of me...but i would use this BETWEEN the root zone and the area in which the air cooled light would be ....then between the root zone area and the active resivoir i would have more insulation...this time batted stuff....something higher like r-20....

i would try and have the amount of nutrient in root zone to res zone about 10 to 1....in other words if you filled up the resivoir and there was 10 gallons in it....at no point woudl the root area be allowed to take up more then 1 gallon...

in the couple little closets i have built for people this actually worked and res temps did stay arround 70-74 F .....and since we dont veg long and bud ussually takes less time (hence the hps bulbs only...ussually 2 that i ussed...600 watters) but ya with this shorter grow cycle ya 74 F is totally okies...but for most part it stayed at 70-72 F in the one place....also i want to make a note these places i built up were perma...as in they were actual closets not cabinets..

as i stated before air cooled horizontal shades would be what i ussed to light up the cabinet...i would use a effiecient fan...say the axc-150 b ..nice and quiet...very easily handle 2 600's or 2 1000's if you wanted....since there would only be two bulbs and such a short length in the run i would actually run the two in series and not worry about ussing a manifold...

of course the fan is at the tial end of the circuit...just a note...you want to pull not push the air especially in a small system of this sort...

inside the cabinet i would mount a small container on the side....myself i got access to a brake machine (something that bends up metal) and i would simply take some micro screen and make a small box...say 12"x12" and about 2-3 inches thick....then i would leave the top open and simply have it so i could recharge the box with carbon when needed....now the key to carbon filters is to not push too much air thru them...you want a constant even mild flow....the biggest problem with people ussing carbon filter is they push too much thru and the filter doenst have a chance to actually absorb the smell....plus in a small area like this we would need to minimize the amount of co2 beeing drawn out..

co2 would be a nice option...speed things up a bit and keep the plants nice and healthy....again i would inject the lower portion of the plant area....not form the top....the air will already be moving arround from the heat of the lights and the small fan pushing air out of the carbon filter will also move the air...

we want the cabinet sealed as much as possible to hide noise/smell....and if you get it sealed so much that the small carbon fan is unable to push then drill a few small holes at the top of the plant/light area....dont put them lower....because again you dont want to mix up/loose any co2 that you may inject...

humdity should not be a problem in a small system of this nature...at least all the units i have worked with the humidty stayed above 70 %....but this is also in an area where humdity might have been higher then say you lived in a desert or some shit...

now to get NFT in the root zone....i have tried many methods....true aeroponics is nice...but it is not feesible in this style of growwing..the pump needed to make the mist/fog is too loud and too much heat....and honestly i have seen just as much yield/quality from having simple sprinklers in the root zone as anything...even taking 1/2" black tubing and poing small holes in it and having it hit the top of the root chamber which makes little droplets over the roots seems to work the best and clogs up the least amount...

now to keep as much heat out of the res as possible you want the nutrient pump AWAY from resivoir...actually have insulation barriere between resivior and pump...obviously pump outside of res too.....because you dont want the sprinklers or the tubing to clog up you want a micro inline filter too...

so ...with this particlar system we have
-the res/root temps at 70-74 F ..which is liveable..

-we want co2 but if not then we increase size of carbon filter and carbon filter fan to allow more outside co2 to get into cabinet

- we use a simple method to NFT roots...something that isnt going to create alot of heat in the cabinet

-our main goal is to provide insulation between the 3 main areas....with the root chamber insulated all arorund...the res area again fully insulated with a side compartment for the nutrient pump which doesnt need insulation arround it ....just insualtion between the pump and resivoir...

- we would have the fan at the top of the unit....beside fan in top compartment i would have an area for cloning...clones enjoy a higher temps for rooting so this is a good spot for them (at the top where any heat will go)

- the area where the plants/lights are doenst need any insualtion unless you are worried about sound...

hmmm...

humidty might be a factor if you live in some very dr climate....but after 2 weeks into bud it wont be a factor...so for first few weeks maybe mist inside of the cabinet

-oh...i would not use any sorta reflector type liner...i would paint the inside ultra flat white...some sorta paint that is ussed for bathrooms (anti mildew in paint) and i would go for more of a GLOW instead of hot spaots that most mylar n shit give off

hhmmm

not sure of anything else....i will give it some thought....

oh...and i have yet to see anyone just freely type away and be able to give in this sorta detail how to set up a propper cabinet...and the reasons why each piece is the way it is..


why???


cause rarely do i see anyone actually understanding the enviroment that a plant needs...what i thought up here is okies..i have set one up and this girl got 2 1/4 lbs from 2 600's and she had 5 rows of 10...aint the greatest...and the weed was okies..but it was not AAA grade and she didnt get 2.5 lbs per 1000 watts...and THIS is what i teach/aim for...

dont mean i dont understand how to build up smaller set ups....just dont waste my time with it....i think i do my job very well..

and the coli system is a huge monster....it isnt a small cabinet....the area you need for the equipment and the units themselves is huge...and you could easily put 4 KBS plants in same area...and if you listened to me i KNOW you could easily get 10-12 lbs from this

and we aint talking some fudging 5 lbs pile of crap either

teehee

peace

krusty


anyhoo

take care

have a good easter..

peace

krusty

 

[splif-magnet]

krusty.... hi,

I have to say,, your pionts on a small area are well noted,,, I have been dealing with this issue,,, i have a CLOSET grow,,(ok still tying, last one all males).... it is nice to see I had been adressing all the right issues,,,

so far I have been able to control my room WELL.. too well after reading a few more threas,,,

I was acually keeping the temps @ the plants top 80... LOL ya no flames please,,, ok so next time I will let it get 80 in the whole room.. my res temps are not too bad.. I have placed that bublewrap foil over my res and a small fan blowing in keeps it ok so far... as SUMMER is on the way I am looking into a res cooler.....

anyway nice points,, I would love a LARGE GROW.. but NOT where I live,,, i risk life and limb just on this closet,,,,

 

[ken]

as hippo suggested an nft table is probly your best option, its worked well for me in my lil wardrobe.

i think rockwool works best to hold the plant on an nft table, but you only want a small 3" cube.

there is a nice guide to a diy system here that can easily be customised to fit your space: http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=12788

my only real additions to that guide would be, use a box the same a your res (upside down) to stand the tray on, with a book or something under the end of the tray to raise it slightly. just use a simple hose t-peice as your water 'spreader'. the addition of an airstone/airpump in the tank is optional, but not a bad idea. also make sure the full tray, tank & rockwool cube are covered to prevent light (and some heat) getting to the roots, etc.

 

[diggity-dank]

where can i get spreader mat and correx in the US? all i can find is UK sites selling it

 

[ken]

well, u can use black & white instead of correx, its not as sturdy, but stretch n tape

not sure where you'd find the spreader mat, every hydro store here has it cheaply, mebbe ask your fav hydro store?

spreader mat isnt strictly neccesary, as long as you create an even film of nutrients across the tray, but it does help, and it stops the sound of trickling water, as it flows back into the res (just thinking abt it makes me wanna pee, lol!)

 

[syko2]

K...okies DWC sucks ass.....

syko2...What????

K...it works yes but it truely will never provide you with good quality or high yields per watt...

syko2...That's true!

K...rockwool again...pain in the ass...unhealthy to yer body...its just an all arround cluster fuck...

syko2...VERY True!!!!

K...you want NFT....DWC will never allow you to have enough air to roots....

Syko2...True!

K...so dotn even bother....only a dumb fuck who has a dwc set up would argue that there is anything better then NFT....and that would be cause he cant ahndle the idea of re setting up...

syko2...Thats plain Wrong!

I run DWC and SWC and I have to say I agree E&F and NFT are way better then DWC or SWC however I choise to use these methods becouse of space and type of growing style not becouse I can't or wont set up a new system plus not everyone can afford to spend the $$ on a larger system. Dwc is simple and less expenxive, Great for a new grower and due to budget concerns I am left more $$ to spend on lighting and nutrience using dwc and swc systems.

Don't wont to couse a debate since it's been done 1000 times already just wonted to respond to that bull shit point of view!

K...so let me know if yas want me to spend an hour figure'n out a system that would be right for your area/space n stuff....

Syko2...Very cool to help!!

 

[diggity-dank]

actually i still do need a little help. im working with a Mills Pride C13 cabinet. you need to specs?

oh yeah, im like you and also on a budget. im not looking for HUGE yields but i do want to fill my cabinet up a little more than it has been. thanks

 

[syko2]

No prob and I think everyone wont's to fill their space up more right?

have fun learning thoe...