T
thcbear
great thread lots of different ideas
G33k Speak
Member
has anyone tried any of the home E-coli test kits???
E coli is everywhere. try the kit on a door handle or a bench or your hands or....
Here's Dr Ingham on e coli
"The conditions that occur in compost can result in aggregates that would allow E. coli to thrive in anaerobic environments, while outside those aggregates, aerobic conditions were the norm, with no E. coli present. The E. coli in the aggregates are not likely to survive for long, if the aggregate breaks open and the aerobes charge in.
A compost tea on the other hand, is well-stirred, and well-aerated. But still, the organisms in any liquid, compost tea included, can grow so fast that you can outstrip the aeration capacity of almost anything if you feed bacteria enough food.
That's why the conclusion that molasses and sugar cause E. coli to grow is just silly. We have done many tea brews where molasses was added and no E. coli were detected, while the same recipe, with a different food added, resulted in the growth of E.. coli. It's the anaerobic conditions that are important. Not the KIND of food."
note - the CT experts DO NOT use fresh manure, it is always composted.
More...
"In the lab, when we want to enumerate E. coli, we set up conditions that let it grow. But in the real world, we use aerobic conditions, with all the consumers, inhibitors and competitors to remove E. coli, and other human pathogens. Thank goodness these organisms cannot grow when out-competed, inhibited and consumed by aerobic organisms, or the human race would have died from these diseases long ago. "
"At SFI, we're being reasonably successful at reducing E. coli in manure-based compost that has not been adequately composted. We also have reduced high E. coli levels in compost to low, low levels in compost tea. But, please be aware that reasonably successful does not mean 100% of the time!
But the concern only has to be with manure-based compost. Other composts should not be contaminated with E. coli, and even if somehow they were, proper treatment, such as aerating the compost properly for a few weeks, or making aerated tea with the compost, will drop E. coli and other pathogens to below detectable levels. But manure-based materials are different and need to be tested.
Materials like citric acid, garlic oil, orange oil, tannic acid, juice from nettles (Biodynamic preps work!), and similar materials can reduce E. coli and thus other human pathogens. We need to keep working on the proper amount of these materials to add so that pathogens are killed but the beneficial organisms remain healthy. "
Here's Dr Ingham on e coli
"The conditions that occur in compost can result in aggregates that would allow E. coli to thrive in anaerobic environments, while outside those aggregates, aerobic conditions were the norm, with no E. coli present. The E. coli in the aggregates are not likely to survive for long, if the aggregate breaks open and the aerobes charge in.
A compost tea on the other hand, is well-stirred, and well-aerated. But still, the organisms in any liquid, compost tea included, can grow so fast that you can outstrip the aeration capacity of almost anything if you feed bacteria enough food.
That's why the conclusion that molasses and sugar cause E. coli to grow is just silly. We have done many tea brews where molasses was added and no E. coli were detected, while the same recipe, with a different food added, resulted in the growth of E.. coli. It's the anaerobic conditions that are important. Not the KIND of food."
note - the CT experts DO NOT use fresh manure, it is always composted.
More...
"In the lab, when we want to enumerate E. coli, we set up conditions that let it grow. But in the real world, we use aerobic conditions, with all the consumers, inhibitors and competitors to remove E. coli, and other human pathogens. Thank goodness these organisms cannot grow when out-competed, inhibited and consumed by aerobic organisms, or the human race would have died from these diseases long ago. "
"At SFI, we're being reasonably successful at reducing E. coli in manure-based compost that has not been adequately composted. We also have reduced high E. coli levels in compost to low, low levels in compost tea. But, please be aware that reasonably successful does not mean 100% of the time!
But the concern only has to be with manure-based compost. Other composts should not be contaminated with E. coli, and even if somehow they were, proper treatment, such as aerating the compost properly for a few weeks, or making aerated tea with the compost, will drop E. coli and other pathogens to below detectable levels. But manure-based materials are different and need to be tested.
Materials like citric acid, garlic oil, orange oil, tannic acid, juice from nettles (Biodynamic preps work!), and similar materials can reduce E. coli and thus other human pathogens. We need to keep working on the proper amount of these materials to add so that pathogens are killed but the beneficial organisms remain healthy. "
G33k Speak
Member
Thanx Mr F- I would only expect e-coli from manure based compost- and that the main type I have access to, so that's why I was concerned- matter of fact it was Dr. Ingham that set it off in the first place- by seeming to imply that testing was needed:
".., that is not the degree of consistency anyone
is going to require. The FDA does not require
that of the food you eat, so why require that
of compost or tea?
Minimum levels of bacteria? fungi? Protozoa?
Nematodes? No E. coli? Aerobic?
Those are the standards that SFI requires. .."
and;
"FROM BRETT BOCKMEYER: In houston, Tim what a great reply...I see
exactly what you are saying , this guy goes on GMA, giving the
perception that he is a soil biologist and thus VERY intelligent and
the next thing you know we have an epidemic of ecoli spread by Jane
and John Doe X's 2,000,000 people. "
The problem is- an ecoli test takes 18 hours turnaround from my local lab.
and if i only brew for 24 hours, I have a real small window to work within.
I even called the EPA about an approved test, and they sent me to the local labs.
".., that is not the degree of consistency anyone
is going to require. The FDA does not require
that of the food you eat, so why require that
of compost or tea?
Minimum levels of bacteria? fungi? Protozoa?
Nematodes? No E. coli? Aerobic?
Those are the standards that SFI requires. .."
and;
"FROM BRETT BOCKMEYER: In houston, Tim what a great reply...I see
exactly what you are saying , this guy goes on GMA, giving the
perception that he is a soil biologist and thus VERY intelligent and
the next thing you know we have an epidemic of ecoli spread by Jane
and John Doe X's 2,000,000 people. "
The problem is- an ecoli test takes 18 hours turnaround from my local lab.
and if i only brew for 24 hours, I have a real small window to work within.
I even called the EPA about an approved test, and they sent me to the local labs.
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S
strain_searcher
I am brewing something up.
2 gallons water
1 cup compost
1 teaspoon superswell 0-7-0 guano mixture
1 teaspoon moles asses
5 teaspoons high end worm castings
2 gallons water
1 cup compost
1 teaspoon superswell 0-7-0 guano mixture
1 teaspoon moles asses
5 teaspoons high end worm castings
C
CT Guy
strain_searcher said:
That's a lot of compost for only 2 gallons. I would use that amount in a 5 gal. system. I would also think about adding a more diverse food substrate, such as humates, kelp, fish hydrolysate, alfalfa, etc.... Make sure to keep small amounts, as too much foods will send the tea anaerobic. Are you aerating?
S
strain_searcher
I bubbled it for 25 hours and it smelled like very clean rich soil It even lost the guano smell. If it were to go ana-erobics I would make sure the plants have tights and good music to dance to LOL. I dont feed the plants anything that smells bad. I will let you know how the plants liked it. I havent checked yet.
ThaiPhoon
Active member
I've had them smell like clean rich soil as well. I read somewhere that it was supposed to smell a little yeasty? lately that is how my compost tea smells after a 12 ish hour brew at about 30ish Celsius...
It doesn't have a bad yeasty smell...but its not a earthy smell...I've no microscope, I am pretty sure my soil is well inoculated now, so I am gearing more towards just dissolving nutrients from the compost...What does a yeasty smell indicate, other than probably a high amount of yeasts?
It doesn't have a bad yeasty smell...but its not a earthy smell...I've no microscope, I am pretty sure my soil is well inoculated now, so I am gearing more towards just dissolving nutrients from the compost...What does a yeasty smell indicate, other than probably a high amount of yeasts?
S
strain_searcher
I had mine on a heating pad and you are right there was kind of like a yeasty tang to it. Anyway the plants didnt burn and they loved it!
just found this amazing website of compost tea microbes with video clips.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Video_Microbulator
just found this amazing website of compost tea microbes with video clips.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Video_Microbulator
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I just read all 21 pages...thank you all!!
As for issues with chlorine, here is another option-- I picked up a de-chlorinator, and it seems to be working very well--
http://www.hydrologicsystems.com/content/view/16/117/
I got it for $150 at the hydro store--
As for issues with chlorine, here is another option-- I picked up a de-chlorinator, and it seems to be working very well--
http://www.hydrologicsystems.com/content/view/16/117/
I got it for $150 at the hydro store--
Did I kill the herd?
Did I kill the herd?
Great info. I'm on my way to the store to buy guanos and mushroom compost for some real tea. Also getting some red wrigglers and building a worm bin.
So I'm brewing my first batch because I need to switch to flowering nutes. The only flowering nute I have on hand is Earth Juice so I added Grow+Bloom+Catalyst+blackstrap to 5 gals pre-bubbled tap water and had a nice frothy head in 24-48 hrs. After 48 hrs I added a shot of Maxicrop liquid and it stayed foamy. 12 hrs later I decided to experiment and added 3 capfuls of Alaska fish emulsion and used a cement mixing paddle in my cordless drill to stir it all up. I stirred the shit out of it forward, reverse, over and over. Afterwards there was no foam and a day later still no foam at all. It's been bubbling the whole time with 2 airstones. Last night I threw in a handful of EWC, about 2 tsp unsulphured molasses and a half gal of water to see if anything might change.
Did I kill my herd? 3 days old, smells a little yeasty but nothing foul.
Did I kill the herd?
Great info. I'm on my way to the store to buy guanos and mushroom compost for some real tea. Also getting some red wrigglers and building a worm bin.
So I'm brewing my first batch because I need to switch to flowering nutes. The only flowering nute I have on hand is Earth Juice so I added Grow+Bloom+Catalyst+blackstrap to 5 gals pre-bubbled tap water and had a nice frothy head in 24-48 hrs. After 48 hrs I added a shot of Maxicrop liquid and it stayed foamy. 12 hrs later I decided to experiment and added 3 capfuls of Alaska fish emulsion and used a cement mixing paddle in my cordless drill to stir it all up. I stirred the shit out of it forward, reverse, over and over. Afterwards there was no foam and a day later still no foam at all. It's been bubbling the whole time with 2 airstones. Last night I threw in a handful of EWC, about 2 tsp unsulphured molasses and a half gal of water to see if anything might change.
Did I kill my herd? 3 days old, smells a little yeasty but nothing foul.
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Ok thanks for the reply
My original intent was to bubble some earth juice for a couple days, but I chose afterwards to try adding stuff, just playing with it a little.
I'm not concerned or bothered about the results, just curious as to why the foaming stopped completely after an intense stirring.
So to answer your question, I wasn't trying to brew a traditional compost tea and had no intention of using EWC. I needed some bloom fert and heard that bubbling EJ for awhile is good. Maybe the wrong forum, but I wanted to ask some foam experts and this is the place!
My original intent was to bubble some earth juice for a couple days, but I chose afterwards to try adding stuff, just playing with it a little.
I'm not concerned or bothered about the results, just curious as to why the foaming stopped completely after an intense stirring.
So to answer your question, I wasn't trying to brew a traditional compost tea and had no intention of using EWC. I needed some bloom fert and heard that bubbling EJ for awhile is good. Maybe the wrong forum, but I wanted to ask some foam experts and this is the place!
I picked up some mushroom compost and High N bat guano today so I can do it right, also some perlite and greensand. Was going to buy kelp meal but I have maxicrop powder on the way and some liquid left. Was disappointed they were out of other guanos.
Here's a question:
What would be good for compost tea during flowering instead of Peruvian Seabird and High P bat guanos when the Earth Juice runs out? (I wont be buying more EJ)
I have on hand:
Earth worm castings
Molasses
Bone meal
Blood meal
mushroom compost
Fish Emulsion
Maxicrop liquid
Maxicrop powder
High N bat guano
Agricultural Limestone
Greensand
complete Earth Juice line
Miracle grow organic choice potting mix
Spagnum peat
Here's a question:
What would be good for compost tea during flowering instead of Peruvian Seabird and High P bat guanos when the Earth Juice runs out? (I wont be buying more EJ)
I have on hand:
Earth worm castings
Molasses
Bone meal
Blood meal
mushroom compost
Fish Emulsion
Maxicrop liquid
Maxicrop powder
High N bat guano
Agricultural Limestone
Greensand
complete Earth Juice line
Miracle grow organic choice potting mix
Spagnum peat
What jaykush said is right on the money....
depending on how far you're into flower I'd be careful applying anything with more N, than P & K,,,, minute amounts of the fish emulsion is good to feed your bacteria (in tea) but youll need fish hydrolysate & humic acid etc. for the fungi to multiply (from the mushroom compost),,,, providing the EWC is from a good source, that is all you'll need.
As for the cement mixer, hehe ,,, I'd give it a miss all together... the idea of stirring (gently) is to remove the attached microbes from the compost without killing them. Maybe try a round air stone in the bottom of a nylon stocking or sock then fill with your chosen compost and seal the opening,,, don't forget to connect air line.
The OFC covers all of this.
depending on how far you're into flower I'd be careful applying anything with more N, than P & K,,,, minute amounts of the fish emulsion is good to feed your bacteria (in tea) but youll need fish hydrolysate & humic acid etc. for the fungi to multiply (from the mushroom compost),,,, providing the EWC is from a good source, that is all you'll need.
As for the cement mixer, hehe ,,, I'd give it a miss all together... the idea of stirring (gently) is to remove the attached microbes from the compost without killing them. Maybe try a round air stone in the bottom of a nylon stocking or sock then fill with your chosen compost and seal the opening,,, don't forget to connect air line.
The OFC covers all of this.
here you go....
Earth worm castings--------mix in soil or use in compost tea
Molasses--------use in compost tea
Bone meal--------mix in soil
Blood meal--------mix in soil
mushroom compost--------mix in soil, dont go crazy with it.
Fish Emulsion--------use in tea or apply as soil drench
Maxicrop liquid--------use in tea or apply as soil drench
Maxicrop powder--------use in tea
High N bat guano--------use in tea in little amounts or apply to soil
Agricultural Limestone--------mix in soil
Greensand--------mix in soil
complete Earth Juice line--------use as liquid fert like normal
Miracle grow organic choice potting mix--------throw out (LOL)
Spagnum peat--------mix with compost, and perlite and some sand and lime. use as a medium.
Earth worm castings--------mix in soil or use in compost tea
Molasses--------use in compost tea
Bone meal--------mix in soil
Blood meal--------mix in soil
mushroom compost--------mix in soil, dont go crazy with it.
Fish Emulsion--------use in tea or apply as soil drench
Maxicrop liquid--------use in tea or apply as soil drench
Maxicrop powder--------use in tea
High N bat guano--------use in tea in little amounts or apply to soil
Agricultural Limestone--------mix in soil
Greensand--------mix in soil
complete Earth Juice line--------use as liquid fert like normal
Miracle grow organic choice potting mix--------throw out (LOL)
Spagnum peat--------mix with compost, and perlite and some sand and lime. use as a medium.
C
CT Guy
You didn't have humates on your list, which I would consider to be a vital part of the organic growing process. Also, why Maxicrop? Personally, I think there's much better products at much better prices on seaweed...
Check out www.teravita.com to read more about humates, they have a TON of benefits, first and foremost as an excellent fungal food in soil and teas. They also chlelate essential minerals in your soil and can even complex chlormaines in your water supply.
Check out www.teravita.com to read more about humates, they have a TON of benefits, first and foremost as an excellent fungal food in soil and teas. They also chlelate essential minerals in your soil and can even complex chlormaines in your water supply.
CT Guy said:
Am I crazy or is everything I'm reading say that earth worm castings are a source of humus?
Maxicrop? - following a recipe from the "Oganics for beginners" thread. If a beginner and you don't follow the simple recipes in the stickys, you get slapped around by other members. Also my soilless mix is fine, LC #1.
The only things I'm missing (unless I'm still missing humus) are the seabird and high P bat guanos. Like I said, I still have some earth juice bloom to fill the void, but I'm not sure my question was addressed. I can order those guanos, don't want to, but I can if I have to. So, when I'm out of EJ bloom, is there a good substitute for Peruvian Seabird guano and High P bat guano that will work well in compost tea?
If there aren't suitable substitutes, please just say so.
