8x8 Horizontal or Vertical?

[Bob Smith]

800s? I'm assuming you mean 600s? If so, then no, you're not gonna get much more than 3' of vertical coverage from each 600, so stacking the plants would be pretty useless unless you were also going to stack the lights.

FWIW, my current setup uses 4 600s in an 8' vertical section (although I'm obviously not growing trees currently).

 

[St3ve]

whoops, yes Bob 600's. Yea I was thinking that as well..



OK so I have attached a pic trying to describe what I was just talking about. Basically running two levels of 5gallon buckets. Four on the bottom, four on the top. If my picture is confusing.. then I'm sorry but trying the 3d isn't easy.

 

[St3ve]

also Bob, your setup looks really nice. I bet you'll pull some nice bud outta that setup.

For me tho its more plants than I want to have going.

 

[Bob Smith]

Oh, I forgot to add my thoughts on that - no, I don't think trying to levels your first run or two would be the best move.

You're gonna have issues (everyone running RDWC does their first run), so I'd start as simple as possible.

9 plants around 4 600s would be an awesome start (in my book).

EDIT: Holy shit, I really typed "to" when I meant to type "two"; wow is that ridiculous.

 

[St3ve]

You have a point with that. I could run the same amount of plants but not stack them at first to get the hang of things. Hell I could always just run 4 plants like in the first pic till I get the hang of things then try stacking.

I probably wouldn't need to do four stacked 600's at first tho if they are all on the ground. Prolly would just do a single 1k dual arc or something.. maybe two of them. If I tried to grow them tall they would choke each other out for the center light. (I'm guessing)

 

[Bob Smith]

Steve - firstly, thanks for the compliment - yeah, I guess we'll see about that system, but like you I'm already planning my next endeavor before I've even had a run with it

Honestly, in an 8x8, I think four bare bulbed 600s (or cooltubed if necessary) surrounded by 4-5 plants for each bulb would be the tits.

Basically 16 plants on the perimeter (4x4, obviously) and then another 4-5 on the interior really getting blasted by light.

20ish plants total, shoot to get 3 ounces per plant and anything over that is gravy (and when you get it dialed in, there'll be lots of gravy).

That's "roughly" the system I'm envisioning if and when I move on from my DIY Coli - even though Heath can do it, I think trying to grow "real" trees for any normal person with 600s would be pretty difficult; compared to trying trees with 600s, getting 3 zips per plant in RDWC with a month of veg time should be child's play.

And if you had a well designed VSCROG around the light(s), choking each other out for light would be minimized greatly.

 

[DHF]

Bob.......You nuther "insomniac" like me and Heathie ?.....Always upgradin and changin shit.......Ain`t even run the setup and lookin at what ta do next.........

Typical Heath Robinson........Never saw him run the same setup twice for shits and giggles......those ebb and flow bucket setups of his with plants wrapped round tha bare bulbs is his bread and butter though........

I`m bored ta fuckin tears bein shutdown......that`s why I`m livin vicariously through ya`ll mofo`s shit......LOL......BTW......Killer setup with all the fittings and totally enclosed light tube.......

That a veritube from octagon hydroponics ?........I think that`s the name.......anyways....

Steve.......what`s wrong with ebb and flow buckets like I usedta run in 5 gal buckets......If you`re deadset on RDWC , just watch shit like a hawk......make a lightproof inspection hatch / hole or somethin in each container where you can open em and monitor root health regularly.......

You can buy those 8 gal UC buckets that have flaps for viewing down into the containers online I think from usplastics.com.....Been awhile......maybe it`s another site , but they`re available......wrap em in reflectix FTW.......

Good luck and holler if I can help....DHF...........

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Both.

 

[Bob Smith]

Bob.......You nuther "insomniac" like me and Heathie ?.....Always upgradin and changin shit.......Ain`t even run the setup and lookin at what ta do next.........

I`m bored ta fuckin tears bein shutdown......that`s why I`m livin vicariously through ya`ll mofo`s shit......LOL......BTW......Killer setup with all the fittings and totally enclosed light tube.......

That a veritube from octagon hydroponics ?........I think that`s the name.......anyways....

Lol, thanks for the compliments bro - yeah, I'm actually already planning my next-next setup (after the one I talked about earlier)..........I like tinkering, that's for sure , but I could never be classified as an insomniac - I like sleep too much

Yeah, that's a vertitube 4L600.

Sorry for the slight threadjack Steve.

 

[raphenilweed]

ok so in the spirit of Selfhemployed's success.. what do you guys think about double stacking my verticle 4 plant picture. Meaning instead of 4 trees, just doing a 5g on the ground, and then making a stand to stack another 5g overtop of the other one. That would be 8 plants growing vertically. Doing this way would pretty much guarantee that the plants would fill the verticle space.. 8', so can the 800's spread top to bottom like that?

Instead of a stand you can hang em from the ceiling that way you wouldnt be taking up floor space. Heck, you can use smart pots and hang them cut a tiny hole in the bottom and VOila! You have a hanging basket growing down! Well that is just theory anyway and you aren't using soil.

 

[macdiesel]

plants pointing dead at the lights where you don`t haveta clean out and kill all the growth on the backs of the plants as in stadium/stacked shelf grows

Why not just grow horizontally then? Sure, you might get light to the tops of more plants, but isn't the biggest benefit of vert growing in getting light to ALL of the plant, not just the top?

 

[DHF]

You just misunderstood Mac.........The plants were in "angled" racks/shelves where all sides of the plants were exposed to maximum light/lumens from the 3 bulbs on top of each other , compared to stadium type setups that require the "cleaning out" of the backs of the plants against the walls for the plant energy to be diverted to the "fronts" of the plants for max light absorption and swellage till end of cycle.........

Peace....DHF.........

 

[250wscrogger]

8x8 room?
2k stadium....3 shelves per side...24 3 gallon pots...shoot for 3-4oz per plant.

 

[Bob Smith]

Steve, saw this thread and thought of you - give his setup a looksee, looks pretty comparable to what I was suggesting:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=195541

 

[St3ve]

raphenilweed - as you mentioned at the end of your post, that will prove difficult with running uc style but it was a great idea up until that.

250wscrogger - thats a sound plan but I'm hoping to keep my plant numbers down. Doing that would push my plant numbers closer to 100 which is where I am now and am trying to change.

Bob, I checked that thread and it looks pretty good. So when you surround the bulb like that, doest the back of the plants just turn to shit? Seems if you ran 9 plants instead of 16 it would have similar effect but with less plants. Your thoughts?

DHF, I do think I am pretty set on trying it UC style vrs the ebb n flow. I usually check twice a day anyway so that would be nothing new for me. I was starting to think that just 5 gal buckets would be fine but now that you mention checking the roots you got me wondering again. Is it stressfull on the plant to pull it up and out of the bucket to check the roots? I suppose once it starts through a screen that would be tough to do..

Thanks everyone for your feedback, its helping alot. Or confusing me more.. I haven't decided yet. lol

 

[Bob Smith]

Steve, without proper pruning some parts of your plants will always turn to shit, no matter what your growing style is - if horizontal, trim the bottoms, if vertical trees, trim the interior, and if vertical "bushes", trim the side not getting any light.

You always need to focus the plant's energy on the budsites that are going to produce the worthwhile bud by pruning.

And as far as you being dead set on getting a UC - trust me, I'm as hardheaded as anyone and when I want to do something, I do it - that being said, I've seen you around The Farm so you know as well as I do that there are VERY experienced growers (Lost, Dizzle, Coxie, etc.) who have said "fuck RDWC" and gone back to simpler methods that have a much higher success rate.

I'm not quite sure where your level of expertise is, but I'd be very hesitant to recommend RDWC to anyone who's not an intermediate/advanced level grower - I've grown in pro-mix, soil, E&F, aero, and DWC (and my new system is NFT, so that will be added shortly), and without a doubt my least favorite was DWC - it's not called "Death Without Cause" for no reason.

I've never run a "proper" RDWC, but there's something inherently flawed (IMO) in a system that requires a massive airpump which spits out 90F air into the water when the water temps need to be kept <=68F.

If you can afford to lose a harvest or two while learning the system than go for it, but if you're counting on this money for anything, I'd go with a much safer system (that can still yield like a motherfucker when done properly).

Just my $.02

EDIT: and as cool as it would be, I wouldn't recommend a hanging RDWC system like was mentioned earlier...........I'm really laughing out loud as I picture that........little RDWC puppets......

 

[VerdantGreen]

personally i would go horizontal, good reflectors without glass if possible, and employ some canopy management such as scrog or lst to get those buds packed in.

VG

 

[250wscrogger]

yeah whenever I grow horizontal I remove the glass on the hoods for more lumens...

 

[St3ve]

Steve, without proper pruning some parts of your plants will always turn to shit, no matter what your growing style is - if horizontal, trim the bottoms, if vertical trees, trim the interior, and if vertical "bushes", trim the side not getting any light.

You always need to focus the plant's energy on the budsites that are going to produce the worthwhile bud by pruning.

And as far as you being dead set on getting a UC - trust me, I'm as hardheaded as anyone and when I want to do something, I do it - that being said, I've seen you around The Farm so you know as well as I do that there are VERY experienced growers (Lost, Dizzle, Coxie, etc.) who have said "fuck RDWC" and gone back to simpler methods that have a much higher success rate.

I'm not quite sure where your level of expertise is, but I'd be very hesitant to recommend RDWC to anyone who's not an intermediate/advanced level grower - I've grown in pro-mix, soil, E&F, aero, and DWC (and my new system is NFT, so that will be added shortly), and without a doubt my least favorite was DWC - it's not called "Death Without Cause" for no reason.

I've never run a "proper" RDWC, but there's something inherently flawed (IMO) in a system that requires a massive airpump which spits out 90F air into the water when the water temps need to be kept <=68F.

If you can afford to lose a harvest or two while learning the system than go for it, but if you're counting on this money for anything, I'd go with a much safer system (that can still yield like a motherfucker when done properly).

Just my $.02

EDIT: and as cool as it would be, I wouldn't recommend a hanging RDWC system like was mentioned earlier...........I'm really laughing out loud as I picture that........little RDWC puppets......

I do always prune/deleaf so thats not a problem at all. I'm just saying that it seems like alot of surface area of the plant not getting much light leaving alot more to plan on discarding. Did you look at the 9 site pic in my first post? I was thinking of just spreading apart the sites a little more and running the lights vertical.


Anyway, I would consider myself an intermediate grower and feel like I have a pretty good handle on things. I've had success with soil and rockool. I also feel like the uc styled grow has a few advantages over DWC as well RDWC with the negative pressure/high flow. I also agree with your point of the 90f air blowing air. My plan is to use two different air pumps, one for the sites, and one for the epi and have both air pumps OUTSIDE of the room along with the epi. The room that will be supplying the air stays at a cool 65f year round. I plan on also running two water pumps (also sitting in the cool room) so if one fails, the other will still move water.

I have made my fair share of mistakes and will assume that I will make a few more. However, I am a "high risk, high reward" type of a person and honestly feel that when I get the hang of it that it will be just about as easy. It was the same when running my reef tank.. lots of stress and mistakes on the front end, but the reward was such that I'll never run a freshwater thank again.

That said.. when enough people scream fire I actually listen. I could be up for trying an ebb n flow bucket system as DHF mentioned. I could use the same buckets and plumbing setup. Just setup everything as it would be for an uc system but just flood and drain the buckets. The main thing I am looking for is getting away from disposable media. I can still accomplish that doing it that way. Then, I could get used to vertical, the buckets, and everything first then just switch it over to highflow if I get bored.

What do you think?

 

[St3ve]

Verdantgreen and 250 scrogger.. yes I do agree with you. Thats what I've been doing up until now. Horizontal aircool hoods (without glass) and a scrog. I just figured since I was going to change the grow style that I should at least consider my lighting methods while I'm at it. thanks for your thoughts