4000 watt air cooled DIY ebb & grow

[SANDS]

Finally after a lot of inspiration from OG Snype and plenty of delays I have started this log. I a running a home made ebb & gro that my Dad and IC helped me design. I had a problem when I lost most of my clones, so I had to go north in search of new genetics. I will take new pics with the camera tom. right now u will have to settle for the iphone. I picked up some new strains LVPK, Juliet, sour d, Hong Kong, C99, pineapple express also will be running 4 bermese kush and 3 LSD and 1 Jack flash. I know its a big variety but i dont have a choice right now. I will be including my 3 soil sourchems in this log also.

This is the garden as of the 21st



I wanted to put this pic of the biggest Burmese Kush plant last week when i first transplanted.

 

[SANDS]

Ok, no pics yet but I wanted to talk about not being able to afford a chiller. I have been running a sterile res because i dont know what else to do right now. everything seems ok for now but, I thnk that I will prob run into root rot probs when I flower. I have access an extra refrigerator and was thinking of trying to turn it into a chiller.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

There are a few things you can do to keep your rez temps and root rot under control, but its not sustainable, its too much work, but its cheap.

Put frozen 2 liter bottles in your rez and change them out periodically. pain in the

Have a fan blowing on the surface of the water in your rez, evaporating water will cause it to get cooler.

Dutchmaster Zone, its a chor-amine product used to keep a rez sterile.

or cheaper you can just use bleach. (1ml/10gal, I think)

Good luck with your grow, I'll be watching.

 

[SANDS]

I am using h202 now and it seems to work. How does the DMZ and bleach differ? This is my first ebb & gro and where I live it gets like 105 degrees everyday so I think I might have to buy a chiller soon.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

DMZ is a cholramine based product...

Bleach is a chlorine based product.

Chlorine--essentially--breaks down faster than chloramine... but they--essentially--have the same effect.

Sam's recollection of 1ml/10gal is in my fatman notes... reapply every couple of days as the chlorine oxidizes the dying organics.

the fatman describes running high pressure drain-to-waist aero... at high temps including res... and never used a chiller without problems by keeping everything dead with that that chlorine process (started immediately).

Fatman is chlorine over H202 cause it's cheap, and if you are so inclined, you can buy pool monitoring stuff to find out your free chlorine levels... H2O2 cannot be monitored effectively and can therefore be overloaded... where as 'unused' chlorine tends to off-gas.

In a ebb and flow situation, if your root zone is fully drained down... you should be avoiding root rot issues anyway...

 

[SANDS]

DMZ is a cholramine based product...

Bleach is a chlorine based product.

Chlorine--essentially--breaks down faster than chloramine... but they--essentially--have the same effect.

Sam's recollection of 1ml/10gal is in my fatman notes... reapply every couple of days as the chlorine oxidizes the dying organics.

the fatman describes running high pressure drain-to-waist aero... at high temps including res... and never used a chiller without problems by keeping everything dead with that that chlorine process (started immediately).

Fatman is chlorine over H202 cause it's cheap, and if you are so inclined, you can buy pool monitoring stuff to find out your free chlorine levels... H2O2 cannot be monitored effectively and can therefore be overloaded... where as 'unused' chlorine tends to off-gas.

In a ebb and flow situation, if your root zone is fully drained down... you should be avoiding root rot issues anyway...

well I dont have root rot I just wondered how much at risk I am. the buckets im using keep about an inch and a half of water but, I have air stone in every bucket and 6 in the res. i will try the bleach maybe it works better than h202 I sill get some algae on my air stones in the res after a couple days.

Maybe physan20

 

[dtfsux]

I would try to get the water out of the buckets, tilt them or put them on 2x4's to get them a little higher than the controller.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Physan20 is cheap enough to have a bottle around. It is an aggressive sterilizer for emergency use or for cleaning a system between grows. It has very low application rates, so it's easy to justify the fifteen bucks as it'll be on your shelf for a long time if you ever do need it.

H202 is more expensive and harder to monitor than chlorine. You can use pool test kits to check on your levels of free chlorine. Additionally, it off-gasses predictably over a couple of days. It is very inexpensive and readily available everywhere (Chlorox).

Regardless, keeping a res dead should be a systematic process. Whether it is chlorine or H2o2 oxidizing the dead organics, this process should be continuous and consistent to keep the decaying biological matter inert and the nasties that feed off of it in check. From what I understand (and have done to myself) it's often the change in the system that is the start of the problem.

 

[SANDS]

I would try to get the water out of the buckets, tilt them or put them on 2x4's to get them a little higher than the controller.

I had them on 2x6s but the root systems are not totally developed yet so I took them down. I will prob put them back up in a week or two.
Thanks for stopping by

 

[dtfsux]

i ran some buckets and laid the 2x4s flat (4" side on the ground) then covered with plywood so I had a platform that was about 2" high.

Your buckets should be flooding high enough that 2" doesnt make a difference.


Where is the res? Can you put it somewhere cooler?

 

[SANDS]

Please elaborate on the change of the system? Do you mean changing to the ebb & gro?
Anyway thanks for all your help I was at a yard sale the other day and say a brand new chlorine test kit and I bought it cuz it was a dollar, good investment i suppose.

So 1ml to ten gallons of water every other day?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

In running 'sterile' res, you are using a chemical treatment to try and
1. manage the decaying matter from your plant's life cycle, and
2. to manage those nasty microbes that feed on the decaying matter in a way that is not-good-for-your-garden.

If you are consistent in your approach from day one, your treatment program should be able to address the dead plant matter as it is generated, and keep the microbes in check as they develop. That is, it should keep up with your system.

If you suddenly add a treatment program (like an introduction of enzymes that breaks down dead-organics) you are changing the equilibrium of the system (this is what I was referring to with "changing the system".)

This is most dramatic with the introduction of enzyme products (i.e. hygrozyme) mid cycle.

In my most recent effort, I overdosed my root zone with toxic levels of chlorine, which spiked organic die-off, which generated a mad food source for the same nasties I was trying to fight off. That is, I changed my system. I moved it far from it's established equilibrium, and set up an environmental that was a great host site for unpleasant micro-organisms (INFESTATION=death).

There is an entity that gets banned from forums with a speed that approaches light called fatman7574. In the few days before he is banned, he drops mad knowledge. It is also said that he reports anyone who doesn't agree with him to the mods. Then he gets banned. Again and again. And you have to search around all the forums to find out where he's popped up most recently if you want to pick his brain. Funny thing is, if you are courteous and curious, he's crazy helpful. If you're confrontational, he calls you a child.

He described his Chlorox approach on a different forum (where has has since been banned). Looking more closely at my notes, he recommends an initial dose of 2mL/10 gal followed by a daily 1mL/10 gal in your system.

(He uses different volume descriptions in his actual discussion, but reduces it to 1mL/10gal eventually... he says things like 1.6 drops per gallon, or describes making a dilute solution, and then tells you how much to use of that... I mixed up my numbers and dosed his 1/100x dilution volumes with undiluted chlorox. Oops=death.)

He presumes everyone is running RO.

If my notes are right, his goal is to achieve 1ppm chlorine in your system constantly.

This concentration is less than municipal tap water (but must be constantly added-back to the system as chlorine off-gasses and becomes 'unavailable' when it interacts with organics).

Hope that clarifies.

 

[SANDS]

In running 'sterile' res, you are using a chemical treatment to try and
1. manage the decaying matter from your plant's life cycle, and
2. to manage those nasty microbes that feed on the decaying matter in a way that is not-good-for-your-garden.

If you are consistent in your approach from day one, your treatment program should be able to address the dead plant matter as it is generated, and keep the microbes in check as they develop. That is, it should keep up with your system.

If you suddenly add a treatment program (like an introduction of enzymes that breaks down dead-organics) you are changing the equilibrium of the system (this is what I was referring to with "changing the system".)

This is most dramatic with the introduction of enzyme products (i.e. hygrozyme) mid cycle.

In my most recent effort, I overdosed my root zone with toxic levels of chlorine, which spiked organic die-off, which generated a mad food source for the same nasties I was trying to fight off. That is, I changed my system. I moved it far from it's established equilibrium, and set up an environmental that was a great host site for unpleasant micro-organisms (INFESTATION=death).

There is an entity that gets banned from forums with a speed that approaches light called fatman7574. In the few days before he is banned, he drops mad knowledge. It is also said that he reports anyone who doesn't agree with him to the mods. Then he gets banned. Again and again. And you have to search around all the forums to find out where he's popped up most recently if you want to pick his brain. Funny thing is, if you are courteous and curious, he's crazy helpful. If you're confrontational, he calls you a child.

He described his Chlorox approach on a different forum (where has has since been banned). Looking more closely at my notes, he recommends an initial dose of 2mL/10 gal followed by a daily 1mL/10 gal in your system.

(He uses different volume descriptions in his actual discussion, but reduces it to 1mL/10gal eventually... he says things like 1.6 drops per gallon, or describes making a dilute solution, and then tells you how much to use of that... I mixed up my numbers and dosed his 1/100x dilution volumes with undiluted chlorox. Oops=death.)

He presumes everyone is running RO.

If my notes are right, his goal is to achieve 1ppm chlorine in your system constantly.

This concentration is less than municipal tap water (but must be constantly added-back to the system as chlorine off-gasses and becomes 'unavailable' when it interacts with organics).

Hope that clarifies.

Thanks I wasnt sure.

 

[SANDS]

Ok sorry I have been gone a few days. but I have some updates. Some of the clones I picked up came with mites so i have been using pyrethrum foggers every three days. Well when I went over in the morning to turn the light back on a couple days ago I didnt turn the ac or my inline fan back on. So when i went back over my room it was 105 degrees. No wilting occurred but, some of my bigger plants did have some heat stress. Everything is going good other than that.



I Am so Pleased with my 3 sourchems. By far the stinkiest strain i have ever grown. They were bigger so I started training them with cages and they love it. They are close to 13 inches and in veg and smell sour funk BAD. I love that!!!!





These are my lovely Las Vegas Purple Kush twins I am very curious to see what this strain really is about not positive about the source on this 1 but only time will tell.




This is actually the plant that suffered the worst heat burn out of all of them. Hard to tell right? This is the biggest Burmese kush plant and a beautiful specimen.




This is jack flash big and bushy not much to say.



Everything else is ok just tryin to figure out this res still. I will be changing my res every 4 days and getting a fogger to do some foliar feeding in a few weeks.

 

[SANDS]

I am lovin ebb & gro the girls are looking amazing today Burmese Kush is so full. My Jack flash is getting huge. I bumped the food to 1200ppms two days ago and every plant has grown a noticable amount.

 

[SANDS]

New Pics

New Pics

Here are some pics I took today


Here is BUKU #1


Jack Flash


Pineapple Express


LV purple Kush


Sourchem


The Rest HaHa

 

[DHF]

Hey Sands.......I ran DIY ebb and flow 5 gal buckets for over 5 yrs and never was there a need for a rez chiller nor airstones in the rootzones/leftover feed juice in the bottom containers.........

In fact , I`d go so far as to say that the airpump running 24/7 is pumping hot air into your rootzones/bottom buckets possibly giving reason for concern with the residual juice left in the containers between feed cycles.........

My buckets were designed and raised up just enough to leave lil bit of juice for the roots to suck on should a power/timer/or pump failure ever occur till getting back to the grow to check on things........

Grow all your new girls and keep mom plants so yas can start monocropping 1 strain at a time for maximum yields and minimum maintenance from different strains having different nutrient profile needs/requirements.........

Not saying the air to roots is a bad thing since I ran em with my krusty buckets for over 8 yrs but , that system HAD to have a rez chiller for 24/7 recirculating feed .......Ebb and flow buckets do not require air to roots , and root rot is not an issue as long as you don`t make it one.......

Don`t look at my post count and think I`m a novice since I was one of the first to ever register here back in `04 when this site began........I`ve deleted my account more times than I care to imagine and don`t post much lately but rather stay in touch with old friends via pm mostly........

Holler if I can help.......Doubt there`s many that`ve got more runs under their belt with this setup/system than me......Just keep it simple and don`t ramp up the ppm`s so high and you`ll do ok.....

Peace.......DHF.........

 

[dtfsux]

Hey Sands.......I ran DIY ebb and flow 5 gal buckets for over 5 yrs and never was there a need for a rez chiller nor airstones in the rootzones/leftover feed juice in the bottom containers.........

In fact , I`d go so far as to say that the airpump running 24/7 is pumping hot air into your rootzones/bottom buckets possibly giving reason for concern with the residual juice left in the containers between feed cycles.........

My buckets were designed and raised up just enough to leave lil bit of juice for the roots to suck on should a power/timer/or pump failure ever occur till getting back to the grow to check on things........

Grow all your new girls and keep mom plants so yas can start monocropping 1 strain at a time for maximum yields and minimum maintenance from different strains having different nutrient profile needs/requirements.........

Not saying the air to roots is a bad thing since I ran em with my krusty buckets for over 8 yrs but , that system HAD to have a rez chiller for 24/7 recirculating feed .......Ebb and flow buckets do not require air to roots , and root rot is not an issue as long as you don`t make it one.......

Don`t look at my post count and think I`m a novice since I was one of the first to ever register here back in `04 when this site began........I`ve deleted my account more times than I care to imagine and don`t post much lately but rather stay in touch with old friends via pm mostly........

Holler if I can help.......Doubt there`s many that`ve got more runs under their belt with this setup/system than me......Just keep it simple and don`t ramp up the ppm`s so high and you`ll do ok.....

Peace.......DHF.........

This guy is a NOOB !!!!!

LOL J/K I am pretty sure I know who he is if the DHF is an acronym and if so, he has been around for a bit and knows these systems. I am sure its him by all the ..... LOL good to see ya around DHF


I will say I did have some kind of root rot issue in E&F buckets but it was probably due to poor maintenance than anything else. It was also in the middle of summer and my res was not in an AC'ed room but was ventilated.


I have run alot of E&F tables and the premise is the same. E&F is usually very tolerant of res temps since the roots do not soak in it 24/7 like DWC or Aero or NFT

 

[DHF]

Yeah.....It`s me DFT.......And I gotta say that you`re the first person ever to document root rot with ebb and flow buckets in well over 15 yrs of internet weed forums that I can remember.....

Heath Robinson talked me into the bulletproof system when he said he only went to his setups once a week.........To say the least I was hooked.....until..........

Ol krusty bucket Bro of mine started a thread a few yrs back about 5 gal buckets of coco sittin in another bucket like krusty`s bein fed DTW once a day and pullin 1 lb plants left and right .....

Bout that time Heathie got an article published in Urban Garden(?) magazine with vertical racks and bare bulbs so I put both together and went from there till an untimely shutdown last yr from a close Bro gettin popped........

Hope all goes well Sands.......DHF...............

 

[dtfsux]

I grew moms in the buckets so I had some pretty large root masses and my buckets kept some water in them. I had no air pumps, and like I said the res was outside the room. I think I had around 24 5 gallon buckets and 3 55 gallon drums for reses.

The problem got pretty bad, but like i said it was probably more of a maintenance issue. I probably should have trimmed roots versus them sitting in the bottom of the bucket. I finally raised the buckets a couple inches, trimmed rotting roots, added an air pump, tried some additives in the res but the system came down before I got it resolved.

I also had a spider mite issue which probably compounded the health issues

The moms did not get the attention they deserved



I think the E&F buckets were great and if I started up I would love to give them a shot in the flower room.