400 or 600? thats the question?

[Kushington]

Wasup ICMag... This will be my second grow, first was 3 years ago, got my feet "dirty"... 2x2x4 homemade box with 150w hps, finished with almost 4 zips... not bad for a rookie with some bag seed on a trial run. The bud was ok but I was more impressed with the experience. Had to shut it down for more reasons than one. After 3 years of lurking, learning and patiently waiting I'm back in the game... And I'm going VERT!!! W.O.W in Organic soil, water only... 3x3x5 want to go wit the 600 bare bulb but concerned about heat, I already have a 190cfm fan but doubt it will be enough or should I just go 400? I really want those dense buds. Any suggestions on how to keep those temps down without using AC? NSPB cooking, beans on deck... Sour Chiesel, Strawberry Sour Chiesel, Chocoloco, Critical Neville Haze, Royal Purple Kush, Pineapple Chunk, Smooth Smoke & Liberty Haze... Only popping 3, which 3 should I go with?


Experience is the best teacher.... I'm here to learn

 

[monkmountain]

Wasup ICMag... This will be my second grow, first was 3 years ago, got my feet "dirty"... 2x2x4 homemade box with 150w hps, finished with almost 4 zips... not bad for a rookie with some bag seed on a trial run. The bud was ok but I was more impressed with the experience. Had to shut it down for more reasons than one. After 3 years of lurking, learning and patiently waiting I'm back in the game... And I'm going VERT!!! W.O.W in Organic soil, water only... 3x3x5 want to go wit the 600 bare bulb but concerned about heat, I already have a 190cfm fan but doubt it will be enough or should I just go 400? I really want those dense buds. Any suggestions on how to keep those temps down without using AC? NSPB cooking, beans on deck... Sour Chiesel, Strawberry Sour Chiesel, Chocoloco, Critical Neville Haze, Royal Purple Kush, Pineapple Chunk, Smooth Smoke & Liberty Haze... Only popping 3, which 3 should I go with?
Experience is the best teacher.... I'm here to learn

What I've learnt is to get the environment in control first and then add watts. So my pick would be the 400w, as it would be way easier to dial in than the hotter 600w and a 400w with the temperatures in check would produce better results. I also think a 3x3 tent is a tad bit tight for a 600w bare bulb vert.

You could always get a dimmable ballast (mine, for example, allows running 400w and 600w bulbs) so if you later on think that your space can handle the bigger bulb you can upgrade easily.

as for the strains, go for the ones that excite you the most I would pick the chiesels and the RPK but that's just me...

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Good advice from monkmountain really, the newer digi ballasts that let you adjust power would be great for you, so you can turn it down if/when needed

It is especially important that you do not cook them in the last few weeks, keep it under 30 by whatever means you can

For a small vert, using some kind of screen to ScroG them to can help stop them trying to congregate up against your bulb

Sour Chiesel, Strawberry Sour Chiesel sound like the better strains you have, the later ones sound like cack from bullshit barney

Good luck, KISS and post up how you get on please

 

[Joint Lock]

600 has double the light output (95,000 lumens Digilux bulb) for extra 200w over a 400w (50,000 lumens Digilux bulb) get a digital and be able to control the light 300-600w with twist of a knob. Lumens don't mean shit were after PAR watts ( Photo Active Radiation) But just showing a difference in output for a extra 200w u get the power of another 400w with a 600w
Bewary of cheap made digital ballast . RF noise will mess with radios and Antenna TV's (non cable or satellite) I had to replace all my ballast for Qauntums and Lumetek .Also @300w u should have 50,000 lumens almost from 600w digiballast set at 300w same power of a 400 just u use 100w less = less heat then 400w for same output .buy the 600w digital and set it to 300w this is the best bet this will also allow u to turn down the power to deal with heat issues if it gets hot running at 600w in your grow space. This will still give u the option to grow at 400w output and have extra light on standby with the turn of a knob . I grow in the summer, I have to run @ 300w rest the year at 600w. Heat will be a issue in a 3 x 3 x 5ft area @ 600w The inline u have tho should have no issues cooling 45 sq ft . should be a exchange of 3.5x a min air exchange with that setup if u minimize bends in ducting work. I would run nirvana papaya or NL, BGum (Pure indicas) cheap beans until dialed in 600w will also allow u expand if u decide to go bigger area

 

[gr866]

Kush, wazup!
Don't mine if I follow along, do ya?
I will be starting a vert with a 400 in a 48' X 30" cabinet this late summer/fall.
I will be using screens to tie 3 to 4 plants, not putting plants behind the screen like a true SCrog.
I have been growing in Hempy's for a few years now and going to straight coco, drip or Blumats I am not sure yet, any thoughts from you guys would be helpful.
Good luck on your grow! Be sitting back smoking my White Rhino and Exodus Cheese while I learn from your grow.

GR

 

[lawlrus]

Having run 400w and 600w bare bulb verts I wouldn't waste my time with the former unless you are in an extremely tight space (smaller than 3'x3') and want the ability to basically have the lights touching the plants without much ill effect. The efficiency of the 600w just blows the 400w out of the water along with the penetration.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Should you buy a 400 watter because you have a small space or should you buy a 600 watter and get a bigger space if it's too hot?

People have already mentioned the higher efficiency of 600 watts. I bought three 400 watt ballasts because I had a low ceiling and wanted to use Phillips Retrowhite ceramic metal halide bulbs. I'm going to buy two 600 watt ballasts... and not just for the extra light penetration to fill out the interior of flowering plants. It seems that fewer and fewer people are using the lower wattage ballasts, and the bulb manufacturers have responded in kind. Quite simply, there just isn't the variety of 400 watt bulbs on the market to select from that there used to be. I don't see why this trend shouldn't continue. Looking forwards, I think 600 watts is a much better investment.

 

[stoned-trout]

get the 6oo dimmable....yeehaw

 

[Kushington]

thx Monk

thx Monk

What I've learnt is to get the environment in control first and then add watts. So my pick would be the 400w, as it would be way easier to dial in than the hotter 600w and a 400w with the temperatures in check would produce better results. I also think a 3x3 tent is a tad bit tight for a 600w bare bulb vert.

You could always get a dimmable ballast (mine, for example, allows running 400w and 600w bulbs) so if you later on think that your space can handle the bigger bulb you can upgrade easily.

as for the strains, go for the ones that excite you the most I would pick the chiesels and the RPK but that's just me...

definitely gonna go with the 600w dimmable
at least one of the chiesels was a definite choice, RPK as well, just not too fond of the purples.. I'm looking for that narcotic couchlock...

 

[Kushington]

hey ChaosCatalunya

hey ChaosCatalunya

Good advice from monkmountain really, the newer digi ballasts that let you adjust power would be great for you, so you can turn it down if/when needed

It is especially important that you do not cook them in the last few weeks, keep it under 30 by whatever means you can

For a small vert, using some kind of screen to ScroG them to can help stop them trying to congregate up against your bulb

Sour Chiesel, Strawberry Sour Chiesel sound like the better strains you have, the later ones sound like cack from bullshit barney

Good luck, KISS and post up how you get on please

yea, liberty haze & pineapple chunk from barneys, haven't heard one good thing about Barney's yet... lol... guess those will have to wait till I get bored

 

[Kushington]

Joint Lock

Joint Lock

600 has double the light output (95,000 lumens Digilux bulb) for extra 200w over a 400w (50,000 lumens Digilux bulb) get a digital and be able to control the light 300-600w with twist of a knob. Lumens don't mean shit were after PAR watts ( Photo Active Radiation) But just showing a difference in output for a extra 200w u get the power of another 400w with a 600w
Bewary of cheap made digital ballast . RF noise will mess with radios and Antenna TV's (non cable or satellite) I had to replace all my ballast for Qauntums and Lumetek .Also @300w u should have 50,000 lumens almost from 600w digiballast set at 300w same power of a 400 just u use 100w less = less heat then 400w for same output .buy the 600w digital and set it to 300w this is the best bet this will also allow u to turn down the power to deal with heat issues if it gets hot running at 600w in your grow space. This will still give u the option to grow at 400w output and have extra light on standby with the turn of a knob . I grow in the summer, I have to run @ 300w rest the year at 600w. Heat will be a issue in a 3 x 3 x 5ft area @ 600w The inline u have tho should have no issues cooling 45 sq ft . should be a exchange of 3.5x a min air exchange with that setup if u minimize bends in ducting work. I would run nirvana papaya or NL, BGum (Pure indicas) cheap beans until dialed in 600w will also allow u expand if u decide to go bigger area

I usually take the cheapest route, but a cheap ballast would be a waste of money, great info.. looking into quantums & lumeteks now, also thinking bout getting a small booster fan to help wit heat issues, just in case

 

[rykus]

I would jump on the 400 s just arnt effecient enough band wagon.... If you really feel the 600 is too much I would invest the extra $ on a 315w Greenbeams fixture or comparable.... But 600 is cheaper and as mentioned you could expand, heck most have a boost now to a higher wattage..

 

[Kushington]

Kush, wazup!
Don't mine if I follow along, do ya?
I will be starting a vert with a 400 in a 48' X 30" cabinet this late summer/fall.
I will be using screens to tie 3 to 4 plants, not putting plants behind the screen like a true SCrog.
I have been growing in Hempy's for a few years now and going to straight coco, drip or Blumats I am not sure yet, any thoughts from you guys would be helpful.
Good luck on your grow! Be sitting back smoking my White Rhino and Exodus Cheese while I learn from your grow.

GR

wasup gr866, pull up a chair, can't make no promises but I'm ready to put on one hell of a show/grow, hearing a lot about blumats, looking into those as well, don't want to make it any more tedious, hand watering is so easy, even a caveman can do it... still got a few weeks left till showtime so we'll see what happens

 

[Kushington]

Having run 400w and 600w bare bulb verts I wouldn't waste my time with the former unless you are in an extremely tight space (smaller than 3'x3') and want the ability to basically have the lights touching the plants without much ill effect. The efficiency of the 600w just blows the 400w out of the water along with the penetration.

lawlrus
that's my gut feeling... don't want to loose on efficiency at all, was skeptical about 600w in 3x3 but it seems like 90% of people who've chosen the 400w upgrades to the 600w any way

 

[lawlrus]

lawlrus
that's my gut feeling... don't want to loose on efficiency at all, was skeptical about 600w in 3x3 but it seems like 90% of people who've chosen the 400w upgrades to the 600w any way

With enough air exchange and tying the plants to a screen attached to the wall of the space rather than the "normal" way with a screen wrapped around the bulb and putting the plants through it, I think a 3x3 would probably be very efficient, but also probably the upper limit for a 600w bare bulb. Would require some good training and the right sized plants.

 

[gr866]

Having run 400w and 600w bare bulb verts I wouldn't waste my time with the former unless you are in an extremely tight space (smaller than 3'x3') and want the ability to basically have the lights touching the plants without much ill effect. The efficiency of the 600w just blows the 400w out of the water along with the penetration.

Law, I have that size space your talking about, around 8 sqft. Would love to go with a 600 but feel it will be to damn hot for my cabinet.
Plan on starting this next grow in late summer.
Not trying to hijack your thread bud, but want to show you my thoughts and get some feedback.

GR
Shot showing construction


With the ring closed I have about 15 inches from light to screen.


As the plants grow the screen at the back is stationary but the two side screens will swing out and the lamp moved forward to maintain equal distance from the screen. I can get up to 24 +/- inches from the light to the screens.


In the above pics the frames of the screens have not been glued or the screens fastened to the frames. Will post more pics when complete.

Hope this works, am excited about this upcoming grow.

GR

 

[Redbuddz]

600w gives you more bang for your buck. If you're having heat issues then I would try to find the means to use the 600. AC is great for making the tight buds. The cold temps really help for making tight buds


Keep on Growin Ya'll

Redbuddz

 

[monkmountain]

lawlrus
that's my gut feeling... don't want to loose on efficiency at all, was skeptical about 600w in 3x3 but it seems like 90% of people who've chosen the 400w upgrades to the 600w any way

Yup, if you can dial in the environment with the 600 then by all means go with it, it will surely produce better results in quality and quantity if you can keep your tent cool enough. A word to the wise tho, don't count on dimming a 600w bulb down to 400w or 300w if it's too hot - many bulbs don't fire up at the lower wattage.

 

[Muleskinner]

You want to have 2 bulbs for the 400/600 ballast (one of each) or you'll shorten the bulb's life by running at the wrong wattage.

A good quality 400w bulb (hortilux, philips) and ballast will give you large, dense buds in a 3X3 IMO it's plenty of light.

 

[Foreman000]

I'd go the 600. The key is making sure you have a fan on the floor pointing up at the light. Then an exhausting fan up there also. Those in place you should be fine. Also my preference is to have the screen behind the plant rather than in front. Just my opinion. Not claiming to know it all. This is just what works for me. Good luck.