.

[teide]

Hi YukonKronic! Cool of you to chime in.
I've read a lot of your posts. You know your sativas!
I've got three Ace Golden Tiger in flowering now. Seed run and pollen harvest. Future crosses with the Cambodian auto. Wish I had Zamaldelica or Auto Zamaldelica..

So to accomplish the stabilization BX you just pop a bunch of the F2s that contain 25% Autoflowers and select the best Autoflowers from them as BX candidates?
Giving us F3 (100% Auto) x F2 (25% Auto individual selected)
.

Partly so. Selecting the best autoflowers from f2 as BX candidates, yes. But BX as in backcrossing to the photo.
So your example would be
F3 = (100% photo) x F2 (25% auto individual selected)
I'm not sure I'd call it stabilization BX, rather the first step in purging chromosomes unrelated to the autoflowering trait.

1: Photo cambodian mom x 100% auto
Resulting seeds are Aa and no autos
2: F1 x F1
Resulting seeds are grown out to find the few true autos (hoping for more or less 25%)

Starting over
3: F2 x cambodian mom
4:interbreeding this offspring to find true autos, again hopefully 25% are true auto.
5: backcrossing these autos to the original cambodian mother.

And same process a third time. Then breeding down to f3 or f4 or more, until all seeds are true auto.

This way I plan on ending up with a fully autoflowering version of the original Cambodian landrace mom. Much more similar genepool-wise as compared to an auto version where there is just one initial cross between photo and auto and subsequent crosses are between offsprings.

This is a tedious and really unnecessary method, I know. It is purely a project for personal fun, trying to make myself a personal cambodian auto that has more than 90% of Cambodian landrace genes (although re-shuffled) and as little genes as possible from the autoflower father. I just want the auto genes.

 

[The_Skunkist]

How they made the Deimos (Buddha seeds) :

That's the way to do it, the money for nothing and the checks for free ♫♪



One more pass on the mother is the way dinafem made xxl ones .
But "XXL" can be bred by incrosses too . The more you cross back to the original mother the more potency you will get . And the older you will be .

 

[teide]

Thanks for the photo, skunkist, makes it alot easier for us to visualize.
Interesting to see they made one bx to create Deimos. I am sure that helped increase potency and size. They wisely waited until f4 before backcrossing and starting over. That is more convenient when dealing with Northern lights flowering times and only backcrossing once.
Four generations before backcrossing takes a whole lot longer when dealing with landrace flowering times. My cambodian mother has 15 weeks flowering. Not sure how much flowering will be reduced after a cross with an auto, but some of the recent sativa-leaning autos from commercial seedbanks take as long as photos.
So you are right, the more I bx, the older I'll be..

I am planning on backcrossing three times. I also plan on waiting until reaching f3 or f4 before backcrossing the fully autos to the photo mother. I initially asked in this thread what would be the significant difference in backcrossing from f2 in stead of f4, as in your photo. I have been assured by other reputable breeders that there is no difference in autoflowering genes from an f2 individual that auto flowers and an individual auto from f3 or f4. The few (25%) that auto flower in the f2 generation have the same genotype for auto as in the f3 generation. One difference is the percentage that shows up. About one out of four in f2, and most of them in f3. All auto in f4.
So if I want to only introgress the auto gene, I might as well go from f2. There is less phenotype variation to select from, as clearly illustrated in your photo. If Buddha seeds backcrossed from f2, they might have passed on one of the runty phenos you see showing up in their f3. In stead they waited to see phenos in f3 that were desirable in size and surely potency, interbred those, and they got great uniform phenos in f4.
That is a safer route than shortcutting from f2.
But as a matter of introgressing the auto genes, it works the same backcrossing from f2.
A shortcut, by half a year, more or less. Although with a risk of passing on unwanted traits that are recessive and not showing up in f2.
I have decided to go several parallel routes.
The quickest is one cross photo x auto and breed down to stable auto in f3 or f4.
One that will take me a decade is the deimos way with three backcrosses from f4 instead of their one bx.
Another is three bx from f2 instead of f4. After three backcrosses I can safely consider the final hybrid seedstock pure cambodian auto. The f3 after a third backcross will have a genepool consisting of almost all the genes from the Cambodian mother. Reshuffled, but still more than 90% Cambodian, and it will be auto.

 

[teide]

My first handful of f1 seeds have broken ground. I am just getting started on this long endeavor.

I must add that this multiple backcrossing idea is probably over the top. Selection in each generation down to f3 without backcrossing might result in equally good phenos, provided there is a big enough population to search from. The backcrossing is more an intellectual/nerdy thing, knowing that the gene pool is max cambodian.

 

[zif]

I must add that this multiple backcrossing idea is probably over the top. Selection in each generation down to f3 without backcrossing might result in equally good phenos, provided there is a big enough population to search from. The backcrossing is more an intellectual/nerdy thing, knowing that the gene pool is max cambodian.

I like the theory of the backcrosses.

But in practice, I love the idea of following a few separate paths in parallel.

I’ve done the same with an auto project, in part because I couldn’t decide what single path would be best. Instead, why not let the results decide!

 

[teide]

I hear you, zif.
There are many options, and I will enjoy the process as I go along. This will be an ongoing thing. Backcrosses and outcrosses. I am no breeder, so mishaps and coincidences may give varied results. And I learn the whole time. A great hobby! As long as I keep backup seeds for each stage and make careful notes, I'll be fine. The process is at least just as fun as the final results!

 

[iTarzan]

OK my head is spinning. Here is my situation.

I have Samsquanch auto Yeti OG fems. I have pollen from a cross of Yeti (photoperiod) x Snow Ryder (full auto) so it has auto recessive in all the pollen) I used the reverse pollen on the Samsquanch Yeti OG autos fems.

So Aridbud's formula

Photo x P1 Auto = F1 photo(recessive auto) (the yeti/Snow Ryder cross)
F1 photo x f1 photo = F2 75% photo, 25% Auto (I don't have this stage) I have reversed pollen from stage 1
F2 Auto x F2 Auto = F3 100% Auto (I have auto Samsquanch Yeti OG x reversed fem pollen from Yeti?Snow Ryder cross)

So what will the seeds I made with 100% auto x 50% auto (yeti x snow Ryder auto) be. Are all the seeds auto?

I think I figured it out. Next post explains but I will have 50% auto seeds.

 

[iTarzan]

P=dominant photoperiod gene
a=recessive auto gene

I am crossing a photo period strain that has 50% auto genes that are recessive (Pa) with a full auto (aa).

My Punnett square results in Pa, Pa, aa and aa so 50% of the seeds would be auto.

I would need to grow out some of the 50% seeds, reverse some with silver and if they auto collect the pollen (if they are not auto they won't flower at this time so you know you have auto pollen) Then when the non reversed autos flower pollenate them and I will have full auto fem seeds.

 

[Cakeboy]

so i have a couple of ace autos im going to use to make some auto strains for my use.

my route im thinking is cross anything (in my case a sshx with my malawi auto).

grow a male from that cross (sshxXmalawiauto) (because males are quicker at producing pollen than a female producing flowers)

take this pollen to throw against an auto zammy.

if i grow and throw a male from that cross (sshxmalawi/auto zammy) at another auto zammy out of the fem 6 pack im hoping a lot of the progeny should be fully auto. that way ill have something with a lot in common (75%) with auto zammy in male and female seeds, cos the fem only thing is a pain. and still have some original beans left to bx to if needed. also keeping it mostly sativa which is what I am aiming for in this project.

that way i can put some in the bush and not run out of weed like i have atm, haha.

 

[iTarzan]

I think..... your first cross sshxmalawi is non auto but all the seeds (photoperiod) have recessive auto zammy gene. When you cross it to another auto zammy you have the same results I have with Pa, Pa, aa and aa. So 50% will be auto seeds from that cross.
Then you have to cross an auto with another auto to get to 100% auto. aa x aa is aaaa,aa and aa 100% auto.

 

[teide]

P=dominant photoperiod gene
a=recessive auto gene

I am crossing a photo period strain that has 50% auto genes that are recessive (Pa) with a full auto (aa).

My Punnett square results in Pa, Pa, aa and aa so 50% of the seeds would be auto.

I would need to grow out some of the 50% seeds, reverse some with silver and if they auto collect the pollen (if they are not auto they won't flower at this time so you know you have auto pollen) Then when the non reversed autos flower pollenate them and I will have full auto fem seeds.

That is correct.
It is a surefire way to get full auto fem seeds.

 

[teide]

so i have a couple of ace autos im going to use to make some auto strains

Good choice of auto

grow a male from that cross (sshxXmalawiauto) (because males are quicker at producing pollen than a female producing flowers)

Totally agree

take this pollen to throw against an auto zammy.

if i grow and throw a male from that cross (sshxmalawi/auto zammy) at another auto zammy out of the fem 6 pack im hoping a lot of the progeny should be fully auto.

If you are lucky, half would be auto. That's in theory.

that way ill have something with a lot in common (75%) with auto zammy in male and female seeds, cos the fem only thing is a pain. and still have some original beans left to bx to if needed. also keeping it mostly sativa which is what I am aiming for in this project

Right on!

 

[Cakeboy]

Hey let me know if this is too off topic but has anyone heard or have experience with other autoing plants other than ruderalis?, I have heard of an auto Iranian, there's of course the semi auto stuff too like guerilla golds and Friesland as well as moroccon stuff
I am in the prelim experiments with some semi auto stuff but yeah always wondered about other full auto flowering genes outside of rudy
Cheers

 

[Cakeboy]

I understand that the semi auto gene may be dominant where as rudy auto gene is recessive

 

[Cakeboy]

good info too regarding the creation of the XXL plants

 

[aliceklar]

Hey @Cakeboy, nice project you got there. I'm doing something similar (also playing with an ACE auto Zam as a mother to get auto seeds, and also planning to bX the auto offspring to some of the other Zam seeds from the original pack in the next generation).

One landrace (from TRSC) I'm planning on making an auto line with is Syrian, which is apparently "semi auto" anyway. I like that its suited to drought/harsh conditions - should make it ideal for guerilla grows outdoors.

 

[Cakeboy]

Sounds awesome @aliceklar. look forward to your progress. That's funny you are kind of preparing for your weather, ours sounds opposite to yours and is heading for the third la nina in a row so again going to be very wet here.....given the very wet seasons I also have some semi auto hybrids to trial, currently a few exodus/guerilla gold 3 fems (Paniks freebies), which I am hoping do not reveg and instead continue to flower out prior to xmas which is summer here. will be interesting if you can keep your Syrian in veg, and whether it passes on the early flowering as a dominant gene...good luck with everything.