2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[Tokesome]

It could be as simple as the nute your using isnt designed to be recycled, by mid flower plants are hungry for P and K if recycled P or K could be used up very fast,

do you do fresh water top ups or top ups when needed with fresh nute mix?

Very good point made there mate.

I always add with fresh nutrients, usually after draining off the Res.

The plants are looking worse in the plants being fed 1/2 liter a day, the plants are still showing the lightness in new growth in both the other tanks tho.

The tray being fed to run off are taking 1 and a half liters to run off about 20%.

The temps are fine mate, had it too hot in the past but have much more control of it now with the big extractor, but outdoor temps are below freezing and only need the 5 inch fan on as the 8 inch is bringing in too much cold air from the mostly passive venting. I need to get a speed controller for it, and wondering if a standard household dimmer switch will handle it. Anyone here know??

Toke, off out partying now, woot woot

 

[Tokesome]

After shrugging off the aftermath of the partying I`ve been busy in my grow room. I`ve now got the 2 light movers operational, after some faffing about to get them in the right place for the scrog. I`ve over estimated the size of the screen, its officially 2.5x1.8 meters. This gives me enough room to fit another res into the room so that I can run to waste. I might even have two res` in the room, so that I can always have a fresh res ready when the other runs out. I`m goin to order a bigger pump, thinking an adjustable 1800lph that will lift the water 2.3meters.

My res is only a meter high, but I want enough pressure to run 3 lines to the three trays of plants from the one pump. I`ll measure how long each dripper node takes to run a liter off, and adjust them so that they run equally. Then I can adjust the time or frequency to all of the plants via the timer, and adjust the dripper nodes for individual plant requirements.

After hooking up the 3rd 600w light and doing some last minute cable juggling and adjusting, I fitted the screen over the plants, set at around 20-25cms above the coco.

I think the LST training I`ve given the plants will ensure the screen is filled quite rapidly and I`m thinking of switching to 12/12 in a couple of days or so. My thinking on this is based on my 2 plant sgrog. I really filled the screen up to around 70% before going to 12/12 and I think its a little overcrowded, and as a result there`s going to be a lot of mid sized buds and a fair amount of the bud above the screen is being obscured from the light by bud and foilage above them. I reckon during the first couple of weeks of stretch should fill the screen. The 2 plant grow is based on 2 plants in one square meter, whereas there are 14 plants here filling up aprox 2.5 square meters. I`m hoping to have a lot of prime bud sites across the screen and not too much of the lesser side shoots, we`ll see, its a first for me scrogging this size of area.

The current res that I`m hand watering with is a little weak at EC13, which includes 5ml per 4ltr Calmax. One or two of the plants that are being fed 1 ltr a day have started to give a little run off. They may need backing off a little, but I`m going to try and hand water them twice a day with a half liter each watering and see if that gives more consistency. The plants that were being fed half a liter a day have now been having 1 liter for each of the past 3 days, hopefully they`ll turn as green as the other 2 trays in a couple more days or so.

You can see that with the screen fitted at 20-25 cms above the coco, that they`rte already well bent back by the screen.

I had to put the 8 inch extractor and 4inch intake fans on to bring the temps down after switching the 3rd light on. I`ll check the minimum/maximum figures for both temperature and humidity over the next week and see how its looking.

Hope you all had a good xmas.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Well I went out partying last night but ended up coming home with my lady as she`s had a tummy upset, so here I am tapping away here, lady now asleep and my mates ringing to see where the hell I am at 6.30am! I might just go and join them for a couple of hours, despite my headache and it being a cold walk.

Well I`ve just been gifted a load of lights, shades, breakers, fans etc! A mate who`s given up growing (the woman he`s with I think is responsible!) gave me the lot. They`re only 400watt lights, but there are about 7 of them.

One thing I`ve utilised straight away is 3 sunbeam SHINE light reflectors. I`ve had them before and are by far the best shades I`ve used, and these 3 are nearly new and with a damp cloth the reflectors were perfect. They give a very even light distribution.

I`ve got to say, I`m loving my set up, but even with the 8 inch extractor I`m getting a hotspot where the temps are reaching 31c, whereas the rest of the canopy is sitting around 25.5c. I think its down to the position of the number 2&3 ballasts. I`ll have to move them. Just moving them further apart may be enough to bring down the hotspot temps, but I may be better to get them on a shelf above the canopy height, therefore any heat from them will disappear upwards to the carbon cans.

Here`s a plan of the room

Oh I switched to 12/12 on the 29th Dec, so its day 3 of 63 flowering. They`re easily going to fill the screen and may even get a tad unruly by the end of stretch.

Happy new year, Toke

 

[Kindman69]

Well I`m still having some issues with these girls but I`m hoping to overcome them.

I have them all potted up into 12 and 14 liter pots, and have all the pots raised 3 inches above the trays and a wick is inserted into the bottom of each pot.

I still haven`t been able to establish a feeding pattern that really suits these plants and I`m currently experimenting with 3 different feeding regimes on the 3 nft trays that I have the plants sitting on. One tray I`m feeding just 1/2 a liter per pot per day, one tray I`m feeding 1 liter a day and the other I`m going to feed until run-off, though I`m not sure whether to do the latter one daily or just feed as I deem them light enough. I`m tempted to go with daily and see if the raised pots and wicks help avoid the coco getting too soggy at the bottom of the pot.

I`ve also made the switch to RO water and got myself a 90 liter res that I hope to set up a drain to waste auto feed set up. The problem is that there is no room in the grow space for the res so I`d have to have it set up from the bathroom a few feet away. That`s going to be a pain in the arse though. I have time to contemplate it though as I`m going to stick to hand feeding them for the next week or two. I`m adding Calmax to my nutrient res to make up for the lack of minerals left in the RO water.

I`ve also upgraded my extraction to an 8 inch RVK systemair 950cm3 per hour and a similarly rated carbon can. However as a freeze has now hit the UK I`ve had to switch this big extractor off and switch the 5 inch extractor and filter on instead. The temps were struggling to get above 70f with the big one on, now they`re sitting happy at 77-80f. I only have 2 of the 3 lights switched on at the moment and will probably spark the other one before or just after xmas, so will probably need the bigger fan on then.

I`m going to build the screen tomorrow, its not going to be quite 3x2m its going to be around 3x1.8. This will just give a little more space for me to be able to get in the door

Here are a few pics of how things look at the moment.

Big carbon can

The Extractor set up, the smaller can filter you can see there is 6 inch stepped down to the 5 inch extractor

Pots raised of the tray and a wick inserted 2 and a half to 3 inches into the bottom of the pot.

They dont look bad here, but its been slow growth to get there and its only when you get in close that you can see the problem that keeps bubbling away

Here are some pics that show the problem from early stage and developing

Sorry I`ve not been keeping up to date so often as I`d like, but I`ll keep regular updates from now on.

Toke

Cheers Toke Nice grow mate! You are well on your way, gona follow your scrog if you don't mind
I have looked at you issue with the leafs. It looks clearly like a MG def. and from the looks of it you may be dragging it in from clone stage. Maybe you feed them to light early on? I'm not a soil guy, but you can help them out by foliar feeding them until the rootzone is addressed.
Best of luck and keep them green!
Kind

 

[Scrogerman]

That looks like Mg def but something else is there i cant quite put my finger on. Coco is famous for it. Green veins and lighter patches inbetween veins is a classic giveaway, easily fixed. & your problem looks minimal btw.
Kind, is giving sound advice. Whats your temps n humidity, sorry if i missed it?
Peace........Scrog'

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks guys, great to see you here. I`ll be here with some updated pics tmro. I`m also borrowing a mate`s camera so I can use my wide lens and show you my setup a bit more clearly, instead of relying on my camera`s phone.

I`ve done a lot to overcome the difficulties my plants have been having, switch to RO water with added Calmax, upped the extraction and hence brought down the temps, experimented with feeding regimes. They`re responding well now and hoping to get these through without to much hassle.

My temps at the screen/canopy is 22-25.5c, except for one area where I have a hotspot issue where its getting to 31c. I`m pretty sure its the placement of 2 of my ballasts, I`ll be looking at this tmro and then hoping to add a 400watt light to the mix, which will take me upto 45.8watts per sq ft.

RH in the canopy is around 30-35% during lights on, upto 48 with lights off.

Toke

 

[misterx_87]

very nice man! Great job!

Happy new years from Italy.

 

[~Shhh~]

Looking good man, more NFT trays... just seen Scrogerman's set up with the NFT, brings back ol memories of me last run a few years back. Anywayz... good luck with em and getting that wee issue sorted out with the leaves. Seems not to be effecting them too much.

~S

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks for dropping in here guys.

I`ve moved my ballasts around and the hotspot has gone, I`ve got a nice, if not so even temp range from 72-78f/22.2-25.5c throughout the canopy. That`s after hanging another 400 watt light to the centre rail too. Mind you, its minus a few degrees c outside so dont know what these figures will do when things warm up, an issue for the next grow no doubt.

You can see one of the offending ballsts in between the laft and center row, the other is out of sight beneath the canopy but in the same place between the center and right rows. I`ve moved them from under the screen to the outer corneres of the room and this seems to have done the trick, though it`d be cool to have them on shelves above the canopy height.

My lighting is up to 45.8watts per sq ft now the 400watt has been added to the existing 3x600 watt. I`d hang another but worried about the rising elec bill, which is already quite high.

This is the best view I can manage from above looking down

So its 1x 600 and 1x 400 watt lights fixed in a static position over the center tray of plants, and 1x600 on light movers over each of the outer trays. I noticed the end plants on all 3 trays were not quite keeping up with the others, so now I`ve adjusted the light movers on the outer 2 rows so that it pauses for a longer time at the end of each travel. That along with the extra 400w on the center row, things will hopefully have time to even up a bit before letting them get a little, well hopefully just a little, unruly.

I`ve got the 2 res tanks in my room, 90 liters each, though I haven`t bought my pump and tubing for the auto feeding drain to waste yet, so I`m still hand watering them for now.

The wicks do leach some water from the pots even when there is no dripping from the bottoms of the pots, so they must be having some affect, as to how much, its difficult to tell. I think I`d make them a lot bigger next time.

I still have a lot of very light fresh growth, its very limey in colour, though the leaves do mostly darken up as they mature.

Is this a cal/mag issue still do you think?? I`ve switched to RO water and I`m adding CALMAX (the same make up as CALMAG I believe) at 5mls per 4 liters as recommended for either soil or hydro grows. I could give the recommended dose for the aggressive formula @ 8mls per 4liters, but worried abaout over doing it?

My nutes are at the moment 130mls each of B`cuzz coco A+B, EC12, plus 100mls CALMAX rises to EC14, plus 140mls Atazyme and 3 mls PH up in 80 liters of RO water EC00. Ends up being EC14 @ PH5.9.

I assume that if I up the Calmax, I`ll have to cut back on A+B, will that still provide the necessary balance of the other main requirements in the nutrient mix??

I switched them to 12/12 on the 29th of Dec, 7 days ago. They`re stretching along ok and filling up the screen, lovely tight internodal spacing on the bigger stems. I`m not going to go on filling the screen too long and not over concerned about 100% coverage this time around, though ideally I should have every inch of that screen covered, as I want to avoid the carpet affect that I had in my last 2 plant sgrog. I`ll give them upto another week and then let them do their own thing. Its all guess work here, but I`ve been popping into other sgrog rooms here at IC and getting some useful tips.

Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

Couldn't sleep so had a read through your other thread, detailing issue you were having... left a few q's foe you over there as I am getting back into coco myself.

New growth looks nice n green as it matures as you say.... Is this since the switch over to RO? Also how long does it take for the filter to give you 50L of water? I might have to invest in one myself!

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Shhh, yeah, taking a late night bath myself, topping up with hot and updating my threads, 3 hours or more now, I love baths!!

I`ll take a look at your questions on my other thread, have you got your grow up here at IC?

No the limey colour has always been a feature here, not just since the RO water.

I just ran a glass of drinking water from the cold tap in the bath and it came out totally white and cloudy, ran off a little and it cleared. What is that?? Some sort of precipitation?

I bought a 125GPD RO 3 stage filter off of ebay for a good bit less than £100. I dont know how long it takes to fill 50 liters, I keep meaning to time it but always forget, it`d piss it in 3-4 hours though.

Toke ;-)

 

[~Shhh~]

Nahhh no grows posted right now, might have an ol NFT grow knocking about somewhere though...

Have you noticed any improvement since RO water has been given?

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah I`ve noticed an improvement, but I cant as yet put it down to RO water as I`ve been playing with getting the feeding right and succeeding there I think, also I`ve upped the extraction and brought temps down significantly. My plants do still show signs of the problem and I`d like to rid them of it altogether.

Interesting stuff you got from canna, I hadn`t seen it. It does make some sense and I think part of my problem was definitely over watering them, then I think I went totally overboard with under watering and started letting them totally dry out. They were in 7 liter pots last grow, but this grow I`ve gone for a mix of 12 and 14 liter pots. I`m sure there is good roots established though I cant take them out of the pots to check this til the end of the grow now due to em being into the screen.

I`ll try and answer your points on the other thread tmro, I`m gonna get out of the bath and get into bed.

Toke ;-)

My set up is better than ever now so I`m expecting greater things than I`ve had before, if I cant achieve it with this strain I`ll change to a different strain next time around.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Well here I am sat in the bath, 2.30am with a couple of splifs and a Barratt`s Dib Dab (strawberry lolly with sherbet).

I`ve been working on my bigger scrog today, feeding, a lot of bending back under the screen and just about completed the first pruning of the undergrowth, taking the lower 3rd of the undergrowth off.

They`re going nicely overall, the middle tray is still catching up from the feeding experiments and still have some yellowing and very light colour to the fresh growth, but it is improving.

Here`s a few pics closer to the canopy

Here are a couple of pics of a couple of the main stems, they`re chunky with very tight internodes, I dont want these stuck in the screen.

I fed all plants to run off today as it seems to be suiting the tray of plants that has had that regime the best, though its a close run thing with the tray that has had just enough to narrowly avoid run off.. I`m very aware of the problems associated with having things too wet, so I`ll be keeping a very close eye on that. I need to start thinking about setting up the autofeed set up to work with the new res tanks, its getting to be a pain to get to feed the middle tray. I`d planned for a 3mx2m screen to fit over my trays and as its 2.5mx1.8m there is not quite the luxurious space I`d intended to be able to work under. My shoulders just fit through the space between trays, but only just!

Anyone have a view on the question I posed a few posts back re:- the benefit of adding more Calmax to the mix in regards to the very light fresh growth?

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

I borrowed my mates digi SLR camera, I still cant afford to replace mine but I`ll be able to borrow this one from time to time throughout the grow.

I`ve got a great wide angle lens that enables me to show you the whole room more or less, albeit with a fair amount of distortion.

I`m using 2 of these 90ltr bins for my nutrient res`.

This is my working space underneath the canopy, between the 2 tanks. . . its tight

I`m really concerned about the yellowy/limey fresh growth, you can see it in the next pics

Cal/mag still, any ideas anyone? Think I`ll up the Calmax next res mix.

Ooh, I`m tired, 5amnight night, Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

Hey toke,

Good looking set up u have there like U reminded me I have to pick up some of those car windscreen shades

Is this the same limey issue that then grows darker green as it grows out?
Looking at a few old pics of one of my coco grows, I noted an army green colour to all plants with dry'ish looking leaves.... not sure that helps any? but thought I'd mention it all the same...

Did the cuts for this grow and your 2 plant grow come from the same momma?

They look good all the same mate, although I know small issue have a habit of becoming PITA when a plant goes into bloom, seems all the stress while young is shows up when they start trying to make fruit.... well that's been my experinece anyway.... What happen to answering those q's I posted on your other thread lol!

Here's a pic of one of me coco plants (sour diesel IBL) Shit! Sorry bout the massive pic, not sure on how to downsize?? Hope u don't mind.... just showing army green colour

 

[Kindman69]

Looking great toke
Are you foiliar feeding them during veg.? If not, I would consider it
Green Magic saved my BlackJack grow. My best friend tuned me on to it, and that bro always has lush looking plants. You can literally see the difference after about 6 hours already. They love it!
Keep up the good work Toke and have some luck too!
Kind

 

[rocket high]

this

is my cheese mother in coco (ec 1.1) {ph 5.9 } temps 50f - 10c daytime 6c at night under 1 20w cfl these are the signs shes begining to show after 4 weeks of these conditions

 

[Tokesome]

Well R/High, it cerainly looks like its showing similar signs as mine, well, not so sure about the top photo, purple stems (could be due to the cold) and similar discolouring and what looks like limey new shoots. Mind you 20w lighting is gonna cause some problems, how often and how much are you feeding it.

Amazingly all other than a couple of plants that are bit behind the others in recovering are starting to look a great deal greener in the new growth, great news. I`m hoping these other two will catch up, though I know this will be a crucial stage for them.

I`ve a feeling that none of the issues would arise with a hardier strain, but I dont think this cheese pheno bears much stress in any direction and show in similar ways.

Hey ~Shss~ sorry, I`ve got a shit cold and been quite busy, but I`ll defo get back to those points in the very near future, Dunno if I`ve got accurate enough records for the precise info, but I`ll see what I can do. Yeah all the plants between these two and a couple of other friend`s grows are taken from each other`s grows, we`re all at different times and get in touch with each other before going into flower or pruning.. . . . and yeah the car windscreen reflectors are great for the job, and £1 when I can find them.

Hey Kind, thanks, hope all is good your end.

I`m going to let them do their own thing now and they`re on day 10 tmro and I`m worrying that I might be over training them, as I think I have in the 2 plant tent scrog, as they seem to be pretty stunted there

That`s it, other than tucking/trimming some leaves and feeding them all correctly and keeping the lights at the most optimum distances. I`m gonna get back into playing my guitar more as I`ve been neglecting that.

Toke

 

[rocket high]

Hi ts am feeding them every two days as they're not feeding alot at these temps( I must stress this is a cold weather experiment for( ghs) cheese am doing i just want to see how much cold weather stress they can hanle with very little light ... emulating a scottish spring climate ..this will help train them for the enviroment they will be in 'come spring time am going to switch to organic nutes (ghe bio sevia) nutes for when more cuttings are taken for the out door grow,realy just to get them used to organic feeds .

when i start the bio sevia feed im hopeing they will get some vigour back...