<$150 led or 250w MH

[Dion]

yes and no

you can use those sure, BUT they are pushing 15amps so you will need to buy and rig up a PWM dimmer( 20 buckish) and they only push 12v so

looking at this ( http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Landing-pages/CXA )

we see that most of the cobs start at around 36v some of the smaller ones (1000 lumens lol) are under 12v

basically yeah you can use this driver but not for these chips.

if you are going to use this driver then i suggest you use surexi chips, they are all 12v(ish) but they are hella expensive you will need 4-5 per sq ft for awesoem results

I would suggest you cosider yourself a cheap arse already (almost half the cost is the aluminium heatsinks) count your blessings and get 8 chips and 8 drivers(one for each sq foot) using the 2540s or the 1850s

alternatively go with 3 or 4 of the 3590s for a less even canopy spread.

am i right on asuming your hight is 2 ft? in that case led is what you need in there.

if you really want to use those drivers there is nothing wrong with them, just that the cobs operate at significantly hight vF so you would need to find some chips that fit the specs for that driver....surexi woudl be mad but pricey

http://www.illumitex.com/illumitex-leds/surexi-horticulture-leds/

 

[The Dopest]

The new grow space is 2'x2' sq and 6' tall. I'll stick to your earlier advice and leave these old things in the attic.

 

[Dion]

oh 2x2 and 6 tall

then def do 4 lights 1 per sq foot of canopy

 

[Dion]

well 4 of them would be um... they are 74w each so 292 watts?

im buying everything online, usually I buy from aliexpress for drivers and heatsinks

But it is my understanding in the USA( i assume thats where you are) better deals are to be had

the chips can be bought from mouser or digikey

im using specificaly

this driver
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-8A...for-LED-strip-3528-5050-power/1932332304.html
with this chip
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CREE-XLamp-CXA2540-Warm-White-37V/32262606267.html
with these heatsinks
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AE-2...sink-Round-XL-10W-20W-30W-45W/1397888087.html

but in retrospect i think the driver could have been a bit less intense, im pushing above its peak luman/watt performance and it also may get a bit hot on that heatsink

i probably should have gone with the bigger chips like the 3590 but lemun/dollar is better on this chip

ill be putting it all together in the next week or two so ill post back here on what the junction temps are like then


imho 4 lights in a 2x4 space will not be evenly spead... 2 lights to cover 2x2 or 8 each covering 1x1 for uniformity

i cant say how they woudl compare to a 400w hps id imagine the would be similar but wothout using specific nm light lending marketing blah blha(im talking about the PAR) im not sure how they compare watt for watt.

I can attest to the surexi performing 200w surexi almost=400w hps

the cobs i dunno yet but you would be getting about 24000 lumens better matched to photosynthesis with 4 of the ones im building. how many lumens does ur 400w hps put out?

so id just like to say for your application within your budget i woudl suggest 4 of the 2540 chips each on a seperate heatsink and diver so you can move them around n stuff

as per http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html



id run those 2540s at about 1500mA getting you about 5500 lumens/sq ft or 58w per sq ft

It is my understanding this will far outperform hps as all those lumens will be falling directly to your canopy( no lens no reflector) and they are lumens with higher PAR(better spectrum) than hps

you got me really excited about this build dude but im gonna just chill now and see what you do

good luck

 

[The Dopest]

Damn, I just lost a major long post...

 

[The Dopest]

Basically, I wanted to thank you for all your time helping me but I am still not sure what to do. I spent all night on the cree and digikey site looking at everything from 2540s to 2590s and even 3590s. I'm on information overload at the moment and on top of that, my significant other is now on board with the operation so my budget just went up. Unfortunately my space has not changed so I will be working with 4sq ft and more money available, though I'd like to keep it reasonable.

If this were your 4sq ft cabinet and you could spend more, would you stick with the 2540's? Please post links to the cobs/drivers, I could not seem to find a 2540 with 5000 lumens in stock, remember I'm in the US so it has to be somewhere that ships here.

I will post pics of my cabinet later tonight so you have an idea of what I'm working with and once I gather all the parts, I will start a grow thread.

I really appreciate all of your assistance and any further help you can provide. Thanks!

 

[The Dopest]

Couple pics so far.

This is the closet, it's 2'x2'x6' inside dimensions and the door has been shortened to fit.

 

[The Dopest]

Then I added panda. I still need to make a tray to fit the bottom and attach magnets to hold the panda door curtain in place, then I will attach my fan/filter on the 6" duct up top and hang some lights.

 

[Dion]

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetai...=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y6noNGF7VgVoxUqF2Bt3GTk=

3050 chip 3000k w4 bin= 5961.4 lumens at 1500mA= 57.2 w

or

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetai...4Prknbu83yx7PpVbn5Yo/VMDP0hsTR9o5vu3Q2HeX5w==

3070 chip 3000k AB bin= 7529.8 lumens at 56.6w

that took me a few minutes with my criteria being lumens per dollar and lumens per watt factored in, you can run thses chips harder for more lumens but sacrifice efficiency
keep looking for the best bins digikey seems to have a better filtering tool but i cant seem to find any good binnings although i didnt look that hard

id go with the 3070s from mouser, should be free shipping and ig get these drivers to drive them
http://www2.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=O2yOKspD61Aj4Vv%2bmwlI7Q==

seen as the budget expanded a bit id get some better( not chinese cheapo) drivers so as not o have to replace them later

these push 1.4amp so

the 3070s will run at 1.4amps consuming 52.3w each and putting out 7118.3 lumens for 135.9 lumens per watt or 7118.3 lumens per sq ft

with driver efficiency and all considered probably consuming a total of 220 watts for this set up but it will cost a lot more than what we talked about earlier...

its all about how efficient you want it to be mate this woudl cost 360 bucks with cheaper drivers from china could knock it down to 320 using chips from the guy i bought mine would be about 80 bucks cheaper than that

digikey doesnt seem to have any nice binnings


so then with an increased budget this is still the option id go with

http://www.amazon.com/illumitex-Ger...ie=UTF8&qid=1425993973&sr=8-3&keywords=surexi


using the drivers you already have splitting the ampage between chips so you end up with 600mA per chip(running them at max)


honestly id go with this 25 pack seen as your space is 6 ft tall you need good penatration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR01-5zdKDw

this shoudl produce better than a 250w hps in that space, if you really can up the budget the get 2 of the 25 packs you will have smth comparable to a 600w hps at aprox 350w with managable heat

aww man, i wish i were building this light with you

 

[The Dopest]

I think I'd rather run 2-4 separate lights than one long strip, if I'm looking at that right. The 3070's AB bin look like a viable option, even if I have to buy and build two at a time, I think that will be closer to the route I go.

You ARE building this light with me, just from afar. Picture it, I'm stuck on the moon and you are the engineer in mission control, I can't get off this rock without your help, your mind, my hands.

 

[Dion]

I think I'd rather run 2-4 separate lights than one long strip, if I'm looking at that right. The 3070's AB bin look like a viable option, even if I have to buy and build two at a time, I think that will be closer to the route I go.

You ARE building this light with me, just from afar. Picture it, I'm stuck on the moon and you are the engineer in mission control, I can't get off this rock without your help, your mind, my hands.

lol

yes at a glance the 3070 ab bins look nice

agian you can get cheaper drivers from china

just take a look at the cree tool i linked earlier and figure out what current you wanna run them at


http://www.illumitex.com/files/ppfd-calc.php

this is an interesting tool from before illumitex decided to only sell pre-made lights

here is another chip to consider

http://www.digikey.com/product-deta...0N00W430F/CXA3050-0000-000N00W430F-ND/4009918

 

[The Dopest]

Call me dumb but I can not figure out wtf I'm doing here. I go to the (1)Cree compare link that you posted and input the specs of the (2)CXA3050-0000-000N00W430F-ND and can not get it to show the 5804 lumen output of the test temp at the Current test of 1.4A shown in the specs. I tried different bins(even though the one listed is a W4) and everything. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can move ahead with this plan? If I can hit about 5000-6000 lumens at 2700-3000k and 1.4A, I think I would be happy.

(1) http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

(2) http://www.digikey.com/product-deta...0N00W430F/CXA3050-0000-000N00W430F-ND/4009918

BTW, it looks like ALI Express ships to the US, so that may be another option. What size area are you building your setup for?

 

[Dion]

dunno what you are doing wrong..

that digi link is a CXA3050-0000-000N00W430F chip the W4 is the bin

so that puts out 5659.6 lumens at 1400mA

maybe you didnt notice the drop down on the top right to adjust the current? have a play you can also put in the price to see lemens per $

agian, as i think i mentioned before digikey doesnt seem to have very good bins at the moment.

one thing i saw last night which i think is probably a more cost effective option than the 3070 AB bins from mouser is this(this is what i woudl be buying in your shoes 4 of them if the budget allows for total overkill, 2 if not-then u may aswell get your grease and chip holders to make it 100 bucks for free shipping)

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetai...4Prknbu83y0bObCPMgyC/l6eQby5L/DGQDb9TViwpOg==

the binning is 2 steps down from the ab bins but the price is way nicer

or

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetai...nbu83y9VUK3Vb4TG%2bvUoIm/%2b2JR/L61gNfe8MUQ==

this one is just one step down in binning but a nicer price, they dont have it in stock but you could request a lead, min order is 1 chip




yes the ali express delivers to the USA, you will find drivers for around 10 bucks each there. I've had drivers from there that have been running over a year with no issues.

and ofcourse they have the cree chips too

the link i gave you to that store where i got my chips is a wholesale distributor for cree, they are testing ali to see if it is worth the costs to sell there. they have only cree chips

i trust they are the real deal but i could never be sure, if i were buying more than 100usd of chips( as in your case) i would have gone with mouser because delivery woudl have been free so the total would be comparable

my set up is two small spaces, each light is for a 2x1ft area, i aslo have 2 surexi bars with 5 chips in them, im unsure how ill set the lights up

i think 2 of the cobs will be overkill, so i may just use 1 cob and the 5 surexi chips for flower and just the surexi for veg however i may decide to use 2 cobs in flower, or even 2 surexi bars and a cob, we will see what the temps allow and the plants need. i grow a lot of non medical plants as well, my banana palm really suffers in the winter so i might throw the 2nd cob over him for a few weeks


EDIT:



here is the comparson i got

on the left is the ab bin 3070 from mouser middle is the 3050 w4 bin from digikey you linked and right is the 3070 z2 bin from mouser i found last night. notice i included the luemens/$ so looking at efficiency and pricing im sure you can agree that the 3070 z2 bin is a nice middle ground if you buy your drivers from ali express you can get just about any current you want, a lot of the sellers will even customise the current for you(as i did with the drivers i bought before last) i also like to treat myself when i shop there and have them send the drivers with an ac plug(1.5m long-aprox 5ft) already attached to the driver, this costs 1 extra dollar, cheaper then i can buy the cable and plug locally



then i found this, a better binning then mouser had and cheaper

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSe...=635616447550607945&CSRT=18278604066449569904

so lets def forget about the 3590 from mouser, absolutely scratch it

 

[Dion]

ok so if i were you id buy 3 of these

http://www2.mouser.com/Search/Produ...tualkey57280000virtualkey941-CXA30700N00Z230F

that costs $128.64, being over the 100$ mark you get free shipping

then im buying 3 of the same drivers i linked earlier
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-8A...for-LED-strip-3528-5050-power/1932332304.html

$11.78 each including shipping so $35.34 total

and you already have heatsinks so $163.98, you still need adhesive/grease whatever wires etc(you do have a soldering gun? and a drill?)

looking at about 170 bucks for 3x70w led lights at 1800mA they shoot out 7551 lumens each.

 

[The Dopest]

If I'm assuming correctly, the 1800ma = 1.8a of current draw from the wall. If so, I'd rather be at 1.4a-1.5a x (4) to keep the draw at about 6a.

Also, I finally got the chart to show 5959.6 lm but at 25* C but the test parameters show 85* C, at that temp the lumens show 4978.5, which is close enough to 5000 for me. That would be about 19914 lm in my cabinet or roughly half what the 400w hps is rated at new.

I will take a look at your other recommendations later when I get off work and let you know what I think but it's looking good for the cxa3050 right now or maybe (4) cxa3070 Z2 at 1400ma, they show 5322.4 lm at 85*C, they have a slightly higher lm per w but slightly lower lm per $...

Damn decisions...

 

[Dion]

we need some1 who is more electrical in this discussion but it is my understanding that it doest work that way.

1800mA does = 1.8A but this is the driver output once it has converted the mains ac power to its specific dc voltage and current.

a quick google search has lead me to believe its smth called Power factor (PF) that effects the amp draw of the drivers from the ac side which i know nothing about

sure play around with the numbers and see what you come up with as the ideal $/lm and lm/w to suit you

obviously driving those chips at 1.4ish amps will give a better efficiency and is probably the way to go, however you mentioned you still wanna keep the price tag around 150 so i took that into consideration..

 

[Dion]

im liking you asking about this on the other thread bro, i may be doing my build this weekend and i can tell you what those 1.8amps pull from the wall( on a 220v ac though)

here is what i found from supra on another forum

"Here's the scoop, dawg:

My fixture = 6x Vero 18's w/ 700mA (&& 1050mA) drivers hooked to each of them, with each driver wired to a single power cord. Using your logic, the output is not always the input. That being stated, the 1050mA drivers take .9 amps in order to operate (AC), while the 700mA drivers need .6 amps in order to run (AC). It equates to around 4.2 amps going into the drivers.

Now the MeanWell HLG 185H-C700 has a range of 143-286 VDC, plenty enough to power my mentioned COBS. The amp input for the HLG 185H-C700 is typically around 2 amps @ 115 VAC.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this was the point I was making with my previous post."end qoute

supra replies:
So the 1.05A drivers are pulling .9A each from the wall? If so, that is 108VA, much higher than I would expect even if not power factor corrected."end qoute

29.57V * 1.05A = 31W LED dissipation. Assuming they are 88% efficient drivers (LPC-60-1050?), that is 35.5W total (driver + LED dissipation).

If the drivers were power factor corrected, that would be about .3A on the AC side but if power factor is the .5 that we normally see, it would draw about .6A. If power factor was .3, it would draw about .9A.

The HLG-185H-C1050 is 92-94% efficient and is power factor corrected, so yes you would draw a lot less current on the AC side. For 6 Vero18s at 1050ma, I would expect the HLG to draw 1.65A at full power.


still looking for more on that my last drivers were 95% power factor, i guess that means .95?

 

[The Dopest]

Yes, I spent all day yesterday trying to find the formula to figure this out but my new understanding is, 1400ma output is nowhere near 1.4a input. I saw one cheap Chinese driver rated at 1400ma rated at .5 input but can not find the link today. If you look at "Watts Law", 50w output @ 120v is .42A input, then you add in the power factor of .3 and you get .546A so as it's looking, 1800ma drivers are doable as well. I'm waiting on a payment from selling an ebay item, then I'll be ordering something. It's crunch time, I just gotta make up my mind now on what I'll be ordering. I don't mind spending $200-250 but I don't want to get much more than that or I'll have to do it in pairs instead of all four. Either way, I have a couple bagseed beans sprouted finally so I'm really getting excited, if I can get my good beans to pop, I'll turn cartwheels. I have some really good genetics but they have been improperly stored for 7-8yrs and the germ rate is low so I have to be careful not to waste what I have. Some I made and some were gifted but almost all of them are impossible to replace.

It's going down

 

[Dion]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6844388&postcount=32

i really think you will regret not getting 4 lights for that space, so i recomend the largest chips at the highest binning you can afford.

assuming 45 dollars for chinese drivers and free heat sinks
that give you 200 bucks for chips, so anything around 50 is gonna be best

in case i havnt said it before im against the 3050s from digi key because of effeciency issues.

 

[The Dopest]

Check my work here, I'm thinking it's not really worth $64 more for the four cxa3590's but I may have done this wrong.

Both at 85*C as tested.

CXA3070 Z2 has 5322.4 lm and 103.5 l/w and 133.1 l/$ @ 51.4w

CXA3590 AD has 5458.5 lm and 109.3 l/w and 97.5 l/$ @ 49.93w

Difference of (+136.1 lm) (+5.8 l/w) (-35.6 l/$) (-1.47w)