12/12 from seed help

[Lexort420]

Well I suppose if this run isn't to your liking you could always do scrog run I guess. At the same time though i suppose that might not be what your looking for because you have plenty of head room i was jus thinking scrog because you wanted more bud less leaves but maybe that doesn't make alot of sense either lol forgive me I'm a little out of my gourd lol

 

[DoDad]

forgive me I'm a little out of my gourd lol

No worries. Personally, I try to stay that way. It's easy to do, when you have a mountain of weed. LOL

I used to ration it out, now I keep my vape and bong going all the time at least when I'm trying to medicate. When I get so loaded I lose interest in either or can't type, I know I'm done for a while.

I try to keep myself on the edge of functionality, sometimes I do go over.

I thought 12/12 from seed in a single cola style would work well for my setup but not convinced that's' the best way to grow fast and lots of weight. I'm sure there is a compromise in there, I'm just not sure what that compromise is, yet.

I'm guessing LST and removing fans slowly and early on, both have merit.

Also, I'm kind of anal how my plants "look". LST makes a mess of things and makes my plants look like hell but there is no question, it redirects the growth to multiple tops rather than just one. I don't need LST for height so the only reason to LST is for bud weight.

 

[Lexort420]

Well if your using soil I would look into a soil less mix if I was you I use it and the rate of growth was unbelievable. I have height restrictions so I ended up vegging for only about 2 weeks before I had to go 12/12 because my plants would have been too tall for my space. I was blown away by how fast it grew because I had grown in soil before and it was slow but not this stuff man.

 

[DoDad]

Well if your using soil I would look into a soil less mix

I grow in 75% Perlite/25% Vermicuite in a top fed DWC/Hempy type buckets. It's basically an 8 x 1 gallon pot dutch bucket system except each pot has a 2" rez like a hempy. Each pot drains back outside the tent to be recirculated.

My stuff grows fast, sometimes a little startling when I open the tent. They get top fed 24/7 and the tap roots sit in nutes 24/7. Mine get full strength nutes at two weeks old from seed. Full strength nutes for rooted clones.

I don't think I'm capable of growing faster, I just don't know how to train.

 

[GMT]

Leaf to bud ratios are genetic unless you are messing up. To change that, change seeds.
Lots of plants together is for growing a sog and that's done with clones rather than seeds.
Top fewer plants multiple times for increased yield.
Don't calculate yields per grow, calculate them per year.

 

[DoDad]

Leaf to bud ratios are genetic unless you are messing up. To change that, change seeds.
Lots of plants together is for growing a sog and that's done with clones rather than seeds.
Top fewer plants multiple times for increased yield.
Don't calculate yields per grow, calculate them per year.

HI GMT,

I'm a leaf growin' mofo and I've tried a few strains. I must be doing something wrong.

I think you can answer this burning question for me.

Are you saying, I could turn that 8 pot dutch bucket system into to a 4 pot and just top more and still have the yield of 8?

 

[GMT]

Yes and that will be crowded still. You will increase yield and reduce bud rot risks.

 

[DoDad]

Yes and that will be crowded still. You will increase yield and reduce bud rot risks.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

I thought maybe one single cola would weigh the same as all the bud sites combined. Now I know different.

Thanks

 

[GMT]

Single cola grows are for warehouses and photographers ��

 

[DoDad]

Yes and that will be crowded still. You will increase yield and reduce bud rot risks.

Here is another myth or fact statement you can clarify.

People who lollipop their plants claim that this produces larger buds at the top of the canopy.

My question is this. If this is in fact true, is the increase in weight in top buds greater than if you would have grown out that bottom growth to it's full potential?

People claim all that popcorn bud can be trimmed off, but why not put some lights down there and grow it like my top buds?

In my mind I should be growing bud from the top of the soil to the top of the plant. Does that lower growth not grow as well as the top, if given the same amount of light?

 

[GMT]

Well, for a start, its very near to a wet area. Namely the growth medium. That leads to an increased risk of bud rot. Its harder to trim lower growth, its harder to ventilate lower growth, its harder to light lower growth. Again the way lower growth grows is strain and plant dependant. Some do nothing but make a few leaves, others give nice buds. But its really not worth the effort with popcorn. Just don't get carried away trimming both the top and the bottom or you may meet in the middle.

 

[DoDad]

Just don't get carried away trimming both the top and the bottom or you may meet in the middle.

Good advice. Thanks.

 

[DoDad]

Just don't get carried away trimming both the top and the bottom or you may meet in the middle.

I took what you said seriously and LSTed all 8 plants today. I have an even canopy across the tent. Each plant has 10 or more bud sights now pointing towards the light.

If number of sites that grow bud is the name of the game, LST is by far the best way to get more sites.

I think topping or femming shouldn't be needed for me and especially if I'm running 12/12 from seed to prevent slow down. Just fold those plants over and tie them down.

I basically have 8 x 4" pots full of bud sites. I hope this is what you meant?

 

[GMT]

Man that space is tight. No exp of working like that.
I hate LST for the record. Topping has so many advantages over lst. LST tends to create a skinny stem whereas topping will cause the stem to strengthen and avoid popcorn branches forming at that node.

 

[DoDad]

Man that space is tight. No exp of working like that.
I hate LST for the record. Topping has so many advantages over lst. LST tends to create a skinny stem whereas topping will cause the stem to strengthen and avoid popcorn branches forming at that node.

That's why I asked the question before. Does a plant produce more weight by producing many smaller buds or one large cola?

My guess is, all these pots will create a carpet of nearly 100 tops. Hopefully it will be more than a carpet of popcorn. We will see.

Another tent option is to go vertical and line the walls of the tent with these pots. 2 pots on each side, 4 in the back. This would require I build another watering system though and I'm not sure I'm up for that right now.

I could never top enough to produce this many tops was my thinking doing 12/12 from seed.

One thing is clear, each pot has super dense foliage and I still may need to defoliated everyday to keep the bud sites open.

LST is kind of fun though. I really got to know each plant and even though there is about a week difference in 4 pots, all 8 are now the same height.

One thing I do know. Once I removed the fans, these plant really shot out those lateral buds. The lateral buds were not doing much until I removed the fans. By LSTing, I've just turned those lateral buds towards the light and by keeping the apical buds lower in the pot than the lateral buds, the lateral buds now become Apical.

Sounds great in theory, but if the stems won't hold the the buds or if all the buds are tiny, maybe LST isn't a good idea unless I have height restrictions, which I really don't.

Maybe my logic is flawed but I thought I wanted to grow as many flowers, wherever I can on the plant, including popcorn. If each popcorn nug grew to 1 gram, over 100 nodes that's 4 ounces. That may not be a lot of weight for commercial growers but for someone like me growing just for head stash, 4 oz is worth the effort when I don't have to do anything to produce it.

They are LSTed now so no going back. Nothing left to do now but see how they go.

 

[Lexort420]

I know it's too late now but in the future you might want to try topping the plant then lst the crap out of them it takes a little more time but not alot. I grew a plant start to finish in about 3 and a half to 4 months something like that and I topped and lst with like 2 to 3 weeks veg from seed. So I wouldn't say it set me back alot

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Looking great!!



I miss growing in such tight squeezes.

My best use of CFL in small spots was with cuts as they didn't stretch as far as seeds.... but height was certainly an issue.

Popcorn is only worth a shit if you don't let it become so. Lighting it should be achieved by allowing penetration to last through the stretch.

I'm aware side lighting is very useful but my main point is that firing off a fast flower while keeping them short is going to help you realize your stash fast.

It's like GMT was trying to tell you: it's about how many harvests, not how much per harvest.

LSTing a plant around till it's a beast and falls over with weight in twenty spots is (while beautiful) isn't necessarily going to beat the three runs you could have hauled with carpet bombing clones by then.

You have a great mind and I can tell you're going to be very good at what you are doing.

Keep searching and never stop trying.

 

[DoDad]

I know it's too late now but in the future you might want to try topping the plant then lst the crap out of them it takes a little more time but not alot. I grew a plant start to finish in about 3 and a half to 4 months something like that and I topped and lst with like 2 to 3 weeks veg from seed. So I wouldn't say it set me back alot

Thanks for the tip. I don't know that I will run 12/12 from seed again, it depends on how all this works out.

After what GMT said about thin stems in LST, I googled and found a few posts that claimed their stems got sturdier. Another person claimed a potassium boost would help. Most said the same old crap. "Put a fan on them and stems are strain dependent." I have plenty of fans in my tent, and stems have not been an issue before so we will see how my stems hold up under LST.

I don't plan on topping, fimming or fooling with these things much anymore. I'm thinking I'll just keep tying down the lateral bud sites until the pistils show or when the canopy is solid across 8 plants ( whichever comes first) then let them grow out what they will.

Plans are subject to change.

 

[DoDad]

Looking great!!



I miss growing in such tight squeezes.

My best use of CFL in small spots was with cuts as they didn't stretch as far as seeds.... but height was certainly an issue.

Popcorn is only worth a shit if you don't let it become so. Lighting it should be achieved by allowing penetration to last through the stretch.

I'm aware side lighting is very useful but my main point is that firing off a fast flower while keeping them short is going to help you realize your stash fast.

It's like GMT was trying to tell you: it's about how many harvests, not how much per harvest.

LSTing a plant around till it's a beast and falls over with weight in twenty spots is (while beautiful) isn't necessarily going to beat the three runs you could have hauled with carpet bombing clones by then.

You have a great mind and I can tell you're going to be very good at what you are doing.

Keep searching and never stop trying.

Thanks for weighing in and your kind words. I am, trying to learn.

The reason for going for a "big fast one grow score" is where I live. With one heavy yield it might be possible to grow only once every couple of years and minimize the risk. Growing is fun, cannabis is cool but going to jail is neither.

I didn't have clones to start with this time, so it was seed or nothing. I do have clones I can take now though but I have another question about taking clones in 12/12.

These plants are about a month old, everyday from germination 12/12.

If I take clones now and they have been on 12/12 then place them in veg at 18/6, the flowering stage will have to be halted and they will have to reveg. That could take a very very long time right?

I am not showing any pistils right now but I have to think 30 days of 12 /12 that even the smallest plant has be "thinking" about preflowers.

How would you approach cloning these at this stage?

Edit: I know how to take clones and grow roots, but once rooted, how would you carpet bomb with clones?

Thanks

 

[DoDad]

This is interesting. LST no popcorn.

I think he is achieving this by removing the secondary branches right before flip?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187887