100% male with feminized seeds?

[GMT]

Actually this is a better writeup I did in that LT thread. This covers X to auto nicely I thought.
Post in thread 'Lemon Thai' https://www.icmag.com/threads/lemon-thai.207766/post-18544746

 

[gedLang]

Yes, that was the one I was trying to link.

If we posit that a plant with 100% "male" attributes coming from feminized seed is due to the "x to autosome" issue, then that plant's progeny with a female XX chromosome plant would have to also be XX. That seems pretty solid reasoning to me, because otherwise where the heck is it going to get the Y chromosome from? I don't want to make it seem like I know a lot about genetics here, because I really do not. But I've never heard of that, I don't think it is possible.

But then Tom is saying, if it is the "x to autosome" thing going on, then we should expect to find the subsequent generations behaving more like those Thai lines, where there are a range of plants and some of them are not seemingly rock-solid males but instead have what appear to be hermaphroditic expression. But actual experience indicates that the subsequent lines are dioecious. That seems like a good reasoning to me.

A possible explanation is that this "x to autosome" is not exactly a switch that is either on or off. It seems like it is related to a handful of genes, which might be expressed in different combinations. So the actual experience would vary; it's possible that the subsequent line would behave just like a normal inbred line like Tom described.

But all of that line's "male" plants would have to also be XX chromosomes - as long as no other male were introduced into the line, there's no way they could get a Y chromosome. So that means it should actually be easy to test - if the subsequent generations "male" plants are XX, then I think the "x to autosome" is a likely explanation. If they are XY, then you can be very confident that it is not what happened, and there must be some other mechanism producing the phenomenon.

And I'd like to apologize to the poor guy who started this thread just hoping for a clear go-ahead to breed with a nice plant - just go for it my friend, we are love the plant and you'll always wonder if you don't.

 

[Fuel]

Most of companies offering seedling's testing are screening for THCa, easier primer.
MADC and electrophoresis is another dance ^^

 

[Tynehead Tom]

Actually this is a better writeup I did in that LT thread. This covers X to auto nicely I thought.
Post in thread 'Lemon Thai' https://www.icmag.com/threads/lemon-thai.207766/post-18544746

thanx for that link. I always like to expand my knowledge and that explanation in the link was great.

 

[GMT]

It's down to one gene sex_det1. The number of copies of the gene is the trigger. With poly hybrids, the gene combinations possible is so high, predicting outcomes for any single plant is impossible, you can only predict population ratios. Siblings can share almost no DNA when both P1 plants are themselves hybrids rather than solid well worked lines. It's not hard therefore to see outliers will be different from the majority in some way.

 

[iStruggle]

Where do you guys learn all this shit my head hurts

 

[Tynehead Tom]

Where do you guys learn all this shit my head hurts

that really is an excellent question
Been growing for a long time and I don't have the knowledge of genetics although i try and learn what i can.
I have always learned hands on.... not so much from books unless they are really spelled out in laymans terms.
Once I grasp the knowledge though, I retain it and it becomes second nature. Been that way with everything I have learned in life although I do have 3 red seal trades tickets that required time in a classroom. LOL

 

[mudballs]

One questions answer leads to another question...that's all

 

[iStruggle]

Im just gonna pull up a chair and keep quiet

 

[GMT]

This is a good start

https://www.icmag.com/threads/cannabis-bibliography-sorted-and-alphabetized-by-subject.363405/

Fortunately I've been lucky enough to have been kicked up the arse by some very knowledgeable members around here, until I did the reading and understood. Guys like @djonkoman. @kopite @charlesxavier @TomHill and many more. Sadly most have either moved on or been moved on. Coupled with Sam's bibliography, I had no excuses not to learn.

 

[Bro.]

Hi, I am posting this message because I have just come across a real male with feminized seeds by surprise and I would like to know if it is viable to be used to make seeds, what would happen? Will I have regular seeds or will they be feminized? Because two females give exclusively female offspring but the 1% chance of having a male remains very rare... and is it special? I have trouble understanding how with female chromosomes I can have a male, is it a pure male? It’s such a shame, I’m giving all my hope to this plant, it’s magnificent and growing super fast, I really wanted to keep it for its spectacular growth.

(it's a real male and not a hermaphrodite, no pistil, only male organs for pre-flowers)

It happened to me once, it completely blew my mind because I knew both parents well who were pure females that i crossed myself, and just like you the male was magnificent, but I didn't try anything with unfortunately I had others current projects on which I had to focus, looking back I'm disappointed not to have preserved pollen.

I told myself that one of the two parents of the line must be triploid and carry an unexpressed Y, a particular mutation, or a reactivation of genes stored in the non-coding dna part by transposable elements (retrotransposons etc), or other .

Give it a try and you'll see, if it looks male and has two X chromosomes, it should give you females, but you'll only know if you try
I think there's a chance they'll give you regular ones, given how little we know about sexual expression in this species, and I see @ojd confirms that it happens.

It was my first intuition personally. I found it strange to have a pure male without a Y chromosome, and so I settled on the theory that a Y was indeed clearing a path, or it was mysteriously expressed, coming out of the shadow of the parts non-coding, recessive, or epigenetic mechanisms..

+++

 

[mudballs]

Idk how easily C.Sativa can recombinate and make XXY...not easily is my first guess...but not impossible

 

[igrowone]

Idk how easily C.Sativa can recombinate and make XXY...not easily is my first guess...but not impossible

you'd think that if cannabis could recombinate a Y chromosome from a population of females and hermies
then this would have been seen in hemp breeding a while ago
hemp genetic research was well advanced years ago, how could they miss it?
on the other hand cannabis does seem to behave this way, isolated populations of hemp go back from mono to di
it's really mysterious, maybe the 'hempsters' have been holding out on us for years

 

[GMT]

Do people just not believe what I've been saying, not understand what I'm saying, or just not bother reading my posts? At this point I really am at a loss as the the level of stupidity. Read the papers if my explanation isn't enough, or just don't post if you can't understand them. Anecdotal evidence from the stoner bro's is completely worthless, and damaging to the knowledge pool.

Let me say this one more time, cats don't have puppies. Female X female does not give you males.

Edit, just noticed one of the posts is by someone calling themselves bro, lol I promise that didn't register when I made ref to stoner bros, it wasn't personal I promise.

 

[mudballs]

We get it...ur calling the Op and everyone a liar

 

[mudballs]

I'm trying to discern how it could come to pass this cunnundrum...if the Op bought seeds from a breeder that made an XXY without knowing it...could recessivity in sex expression happen...could there be a punnet square output of offspring that suppressed male expression or would the double fem chromosome thing promote an anueploid type event. Extra branching genes make weird branching, trifoliates, fasciation...sooo, could an extra fem chromosome promote an anueploidy event making an XXY look like femminized seeds but a male will pop up.

 

[mudballs]

How many from the group that could answer that have been banned i wonder

 

[mudballs]

..for those a bit in the dark...if you femminize an XXY your offspring may have XXY...idk...shit i studied says yeah...it can happen...about as rare as we hear about it too. That's why i said "karyotype"...it isn't some fkn jesus plant...it's just one of those things that can happen

 

[Tynehead Tom]

I am just a simple man and I understand food, cooking, baking as well as trades and machinery.... some have called me a wizard in my fields. However I will admit that when I start reading the books I have on breeding and botany in general, it all gets lost in translation. It's odd to me because I always excelled at reading and literature but the science stuff ..... if I can't feel it, touch it, manipulate it with my eyes and hands.... it gets tough for me to learn.
Plants however.... I know plants on a basic level and have always had a feel for my own work and the plants that come and go. This topic does interest me though because in the case of the OGKB 2.0 and her bagseed brother..... it was always assumed that the seeds were self pollinated by a nanner inside a nug based on the information chunkypigs had at the time.
Regardless of what we think that male (cookieboi) might be ... that is those of use who followed that ongoing thread from it's inception.... and those of us fortunate enough to aquire multiple paks of the offspring from those two plants...... it is a curious male. I never grew him personally I only grew his proginy thru the Scoutbreath line (ogkb 2.0 x brother cookieboi) and other crosses he was the father of,
The offspring are regular and stable with a fairly average M/F ratio and homogenous for most traits across the seed line. Subtle differences in flavor and strength but near carbon copies for structure, height, branch and node formation, vigor ect ect. What I will refer to as a tight IBL is what I am seeing in the F2 and F3 gens across multiple male/female pairings in seperate seed lots made from selections from 30+ seeds over 3 years.
Wish I had that male and could test him but sadly chunkypigs retired him not long ago.

 

[farmerlion]

Do people just not believe what I've been saying, not understand what I'm saying, or just not bother reading my posts? At this point I really am at a loss as the the level of stupidity. Read the papers if my explanation isn't enough, or just don't post if you can't understand them. Anecdotal evidence from the stoner bro's is completely worthless, and damaging to the knowledge pool.

Let me say this one more time, cats don't have puppies. Female X female does not give you males.

Edit, just noticed one of the posts is by someone calling themselves bro, lol I promise that didn't register when I made ref to stoner bros, it wasn't personal I promise.

GMT,
Teaching is self abusive and finding people that actually want to learn is rare!

In my experience and opinion many to most cannabis users only want a walk through knowledge of a couple key phrases. Once they've mastered this or that bullshit hyped cut, this is the real deal bullshit hyped blah blah and you can't be high without bringing up Terps!

Your sharing might sit dormant in a thread for years before some young gun gets curious enough to hear the truth.
Peace brother
farmerlion