what contitutes a IBL(in-bred line)

this is a term that gets way overused imo, peeps always wantin to add the IBL tag to boost sales.

what actually is a IBL? ive read and seen numerous times that 5 filial gens and your line could be considered IBL. to the best of my knowlwdge there is no actual number of generations stated anywhere.

also in the past seedmakers have stated a cube would be considered IBL.

so what actually gives a seedline the IBL tag? in my mind a IBL would be true breeding, and a open pollinated line. just the conclusion ive come to over time, and may be well off the mark.

sure would like to hear what others think, and what is truely a IBL seedline

CBF

excellent topic Cedarberry.

yea that phrase does certainly get thrown around a lot.

I think it signify a plant being stable nowadays.

a handfull of plants used to create a IBL?
surely you are losing some genetic information with just those handful of plants right?

later

i always thought the idea of ibl'ing was to create a new stable strain with the goal being to obtain 1 pheno which is a nice mix of the parents

imo a stable line is a ibl.

hazyfontazy said:

i always thought the idea of ibl'ing was to create a new stable strain with the goal being to obtain 1 pheno which is a nice mix of the parents

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true but when you do this to clone only strains; how can you then say it is infact a proper representation of that strain in seed form?

when it is simply breeding & selections of that strains phenos you wish make dom?

later

Cedarberry said:

this is a term that gets way overused imo, peeps always wantin to add the IBL tag to boost sales.

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I agree, alot like "F1" & "F2"..

Cedarberry said:

what actually is a IBL? ive read and seen numerous times that 5 filial gens and your line could be considered IBL. to the best of my knowlwdge there is no actual number of generations stated anywhere.

also in the past seedmakers have stated a cube would be considered IBL.

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right on man, I remember when alotta folks would say 4 f gen inbred..
like you said, there is no specific. as each combination will be different, and only the offspring can tell us if the line is stable for specific traits.
its a case to case basis.

Cubing (BXing) is just that, its not inbreeding. tho it is a viable method (imo) of isolating a specific pheno.

Cedarberry said:

so what actually gives a seedline the IBL tag? in my mind a IBL would be true breeding, and a open pollinated line.
CBF

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an IBL, is inbred. no specific amount of parents are 'required' tho the more the merrier. IBL is about stabelizing to a specific uniformity, of the majority of phenotypes in a line. this can be done with a start of 2 parents or 200.

great topic!
Peace, bub.

It is a hell of a loose terminology. Chimera described it as meaning any line that was true breeding for the trait or traits the breeder has in mind. With no particular qualification of number of filial generations or number of parents used at any stage.

Paz, hhf

Tropical Rain said:

true but when you do this to clone only strains; how can you then say it is infact a proper representation of that strain in seed form?

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you cant, untill you grow the seed and see what is revealed..

with some of the "elite" cuts, it may be easier to isolate a given pheno thru Cubing.
as with an IBL, you cant really predict what phenotypes the Filial gens will produce as dominant untill yer at that point.

Peace, bub.

Great topic and a great post Bub, was about to say pretty much the same thing, what makes it funny is that for example someone buys a pack of hummm lets say Hindu Kush, from Sensi Seeds, and obviously they have made the seeds by selecting always the best males or just a male etc of each generation and bang them generation after generation so the seeds will probably be "f1000's" or very much inbred anyway for the starters, and then the customer makes his own selction and makes seeds and calls them f2's for to him it is the second generation if he has been made believe that the seeds he got were f1 or inbred to a certain point...anyhoo get it? to me it means that I see a uniform crop of plants not 100 different type of plants where some are excellent and some are just hay...

Farmer John said:

and then the customer makes his own selction and makes seeds and calls them f2's for to him it is the second generation if he has been made believe that the seeds he got were f1 or inbred to a certain point...anyhoo get it?

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exactly.
right on FJ, just like when 2 unrelated superpolyhybrids make a F1 hybrid...lol

whats the correct terminology then for a poly x poly and its ix?

very good thread CBF !

Farmer John said:

to me it means that I see a uniform crop of plants not 100 different type of plants where some are excellent and some are just hay...

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That's my idea of an IBL too, stable line & uniform crop.

My only experience with an IBL is with the KillaQueen v² from motarebel (the man sell it with the tag "F5", not "IBL" to cash in) .

All the plants are very uniform, on the C99 side like the parents chosen by mota. On the two pack i've grow, just one plant was a bit different for the general structure, but the final product smell & taste exactly the same.

It was for me a good experience with an IBL.

Anyway, thanks for the good infos OG Bub

incrossing polys, results in incrossed poly's.
I would title the progony: (Ix, I, Ic) Incross #1, #2 etc per the correct gen..

HothouseFlowers said:

It is a hell of a loose terminology. Chimera described it as meaning any line that was true breeding for the trait or traits the breeder has in mind. With no particular qualification of number of filial generations or number of parents used at any stage.

Paz, hhf

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i remember that & found some words from Chimera :smile:

LINK; http://www.geocities.com/loroan/Inbredlines.htm

"When discussing IBL's, we should remember what the term means. IBL stands for In Bred Line. So really any seedline that has been inbred, could qualify.

I think most of us use the term to mean truebreeding- but when we discuss truebreeding it should be realized that these strains will only breed true for the traits that the breeder concentrated on, and will not breed true for each and every trait.

For example- In "Advances in Hemp Research'- the author refers to Skunk #1 as a 'relatively' true breeding variety. This point was made clear by strawdog's recent grow of Sensi seed's Afghan1 and Skunk #1- these two 'classics' were both found to show some variation in the seedline for various characteristics.

That having been said, here is brief list of some IBL's:

Skunk #1
California Orange
Afghani #1
Hindu Kush
South African Durban Posion (Durban)
Early girl
Northern Lights
Big Bud
Blueberry
Mighty Mite

There are probably many others, I just can't think of them off the top of my head- please feel free to add to the list.

Some would consider cubed lines as IBL's, they consider the act of crossing a male offspring to a it's mother clone as inbreeding, and in a sense it is.

If we were to include these as well we could mention Breeder Steve's Sweet Tooth #3, Brothers Grimm C99, Romulan from Federation (back crossed 7 times apparently) and many others.
For the most part, these strains won't breed true however- if the clone is heterozygous for a particular trait, no matter how many times you back cross to the clone it will continue to segregate in an unpredictable manner- donating either of the different alleles.

This cubing practice is a myth in the cannabis industry- it does NOT produce a truebreeding line- it only produces a larger population with very close genetic heritage, from which parents can be chosen to produce an IBL, or truebreeding line.
The point of having an IBL or truebreeding variety is that these lines are homozygous for certain traits, and because of they are homozygous (and thus truebreeding) they will ALWAYS contribute the desired allele- allowing a predictable outcome of that trait in the offspring.
Hope this clears things up a bit...
-Chimera
[Edited by Chimera on 07-15-2001 at 03:50 PM]"

IBL and backcrossing/cubing

IBL and backcrossing/cubing

Back crossing is back crossing
Cubing is three back crosses to the original clone
IBL has always confused me though .
My guess is that it is working with a hybrid or
poly hybrid long enough to basically consider it as a strain .
Other wise it would be called back crossing.
Using the word correctly is good, but the main thing imo
is doing the work that the word describes.
For instance "pollen chucking" is a word that hurt some peoples tender egos
but it is on "what" the pollen is "chucked" that makes yah a good
"breeder" or not.I would perfer to use the word pollen chucker because it
is kinda funny and thus helps keep us more modest, and we could use more of that.

regarding corn, Texas Administrative Code TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE SEED CERTIFICATION STANDARDS ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CERTIFICATION OF CERTAIN CROPS TITLE 4, PART 1, CHAPTER 10, SUBCHAPTER F, RULE §10.18 Definition of Terms and Other Requirements, Paragraph (3) Inbred Lines, states the following...

(iv) An inbred line must be relatively true- breeding strain of corn resulting from at least five successive generations of controlled self-fertilization or a back crossing to a recurrent parent with selection or its equivalent.

(D) When a specific genetic factor(s) is added to an inbred line, the line must have been back-crossed to its recurrent parent at least five generations. The line must be homozygous for the specific genetic factor(s) except for the pollen restoration factor(s).

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The point of having an IBL or truebreeding variety is that these lines are homozygous for certain traits, and because of they are homozygous (and thus truebreeding) they will ALWAYS contribute the desired allele- allowing a predictable outcome of that trait in the offspring.
Hope this clears things up a bit...

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Crux of the biscuit..

This is a great topic and a great post. I am glad to see this IBL thing finally talked about it was like it was magic or something....
Khan.

i've been wondering this myself for awhile:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=36360

it seems it's quite different to different people.