Tutorial Organics for Beginners

Ahimsa.

Ahimsa.

heady blunts said:

ahimsa brand neem is the nice stuff at least for what's imported to the US.

neemresource dot com is the importer. BAS distributes for them. you can buy directly from neemresource too---the price diff is negligible after shipping.

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Yes sir. That's the one. Reminds me of instant coffee crystals or bullion. Exotic. Be careful neem sets some folks off.

I remember someone saying the smell was worse than Alaska fish fertilizer, lol!
It is strong and different from NEEM oil, but it dissipates after a week it seems...I have no qualms with using it despite it coming from half way around the world.
Please don't tell me it's manufactured by children under inhumane conditions because then it would likely be my last bag.

How long has Scott's owned Green Light NEEM Concentrate?!?
I have an old bottle and the directions on it are smudged off so I looked up the measurements online, and was startled to be linked to Scott's.

I value Weird because he does have this way of making me see when my driving factors are rooted in ego and emotion rather than logic. He is one of few people I have EVER discussed "real life drama" with on this site - and he's never treated me any differently for showing my limited depth of humanity or for having wore something on my sleeve.

His posts do at times come off as a monk speaking from the top of the stairs in tone, but their is a reason for that. He doesn't speak from a place of condemnation or self proclaimed enlightenment - but more so from a recognition of where differing individuals are at in their life experience.

His words do not provide a wet blanket comfort nor do they provide one with the ability to continue making excuses for perpetuating fallacy - but they encourage the growth of the individual that is willing to take a step back and evaluate themselves objectively. Sometimes having the blinders removed while standing in front of a mirror is ugly. People who do not lead stagnant lives understand the value and importance of doing such though.

Mikell, I know I've told you this personally before, but I truly think, outside of whatever has happened in past interactions, that your impression of who Weird is or what his intentions are, is grossly incorrect. As humans, a need to be correct, can often times become an unintentional point of contention when others are merely looking to share their thoughts and personal experiences. Our perceptions are responsible for how we interpret the information put before us and morphs the light in which we view its presenter. I would really like to see the two of you find common ground in the fact we all love this plant and often times it is discovered through conversations that transpire, such as on the previous pages - not only are we growing this plant, but we are growing our being as well and each of us in our own way, are trying to have a positive impact on the world around us, either through the practice of growing this plant or sharing with others what we have learned as a result of consuming it.

Sometimes, harmony is found within the discord. I'd like to believe that is the end result achieved by these conversations.

Coba red flagged these conversations but I think this particular series of exchanges are part of the re-unifying of this sub-forum as it continues to heal itself from previous events. I think once and for all the various segmented factions are interacting again and are becoming comfortable and no longer feeling threatened or placed in competition by discussing our various organic practices. I think these last few pages demonstrate how far we have come - not that we are going backwards. I'd hate to see you bow out, Coba. I for one, think we are on the cusp of being able to share freely and openly once again.



dank.Frank

dank.frank said:

I value Weird because he does have this way of making me see when my driving factors are rooted in ego and emotion rather than logic. He is one of few people I have EVER discussed "real life drama" with on this site - and he's never treated me any differently for showing my limited depth of humanity or for having wore something on my sleeve.

His posts do at times come off as a monk speaking from the top of the stairs in tone, but their is a reason for that. He doesn't speak from a place of condemnation or self proclaimed enlightenment - but more so from a recognition of where differing individuals are at in their life experience.

His words do not provide a wet blanket comfort nor do they provide one with the ability to continue making excuses for perpetuating fallacy - but they encourage the growth of the individual that is willing to take a step back and evaluate themselves objectively. Sometimes having the blinders removed while standing in front of a mirror is ugly. People who do not lead stagnant lives understand the value and importance of doing such though.

Mikell, I know I've told you this personally before, but I truly think, outside of whatever has happened in past interactions, that your impression of who Weird is or what his intentions are, is grossly incorrect. As humans, a need to be correct, can often times become an unintentional point of contention when others are merely looking to share their thoughts and personal experiences. Our perceptions are responsible for how we interpret the information put before us and morphs the light in which we view its presenter. I would really like to see the two of you find common ground in the fact we all love this plant and often times it is discovered through conversations that transpire, such as on the previous pages - not only are we growing this plant, but we are growing our being as well and each of us in our own way, are trying to have a positive impact on the world around us, either through the practice of growing this plant or sharing with others what we have learned as a result of consuming it.

Sometimes, harmony is found within the discord. I'd like to believe that is the end result achieved by these conversations.

Coba red flagged these conversations but I think this particular series of exchanges are part of the re-unifying of this sub-forum as it continues to heal itself from previous events. I think once and for all the various segmented factions are interacting again and are becoming comfortable and no longer feeling threatened or placed in competition by discussing our various organic practices. I think these last few pages demonstrate how far we have come - not that we are going backwards. I'd hate to see you bow out, Coba. I for one, think we are on the cusp of being able to share freely and openly once again.



dank.Frank

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Well said brother. All we want to do is live and learn and grow.

Sometimes you get show the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know!

Can't we all just hit a bong???

dank.frank said:

I value Weird because he does have this way of making me see when my driving factors are rooted in ego and emotion rather than logic. He is one of few people I have EVER discussed "real life drama" with on this site - and he's never treated me any differently for showing my limited depth of humanity or for having wore something on my sleeve.

His posts do at times come off as a monk speaking from the top of the stairs in tone, but their is a reason for that. He doesn't speak from a place of condemnation or self proclaimed enlightenment - but more so from a recognition of where differing individuals are at in their life experience.

His words do not provide a wet blanket comfort nor do they provide one with the ability to continue making excuses for perpetuating fallacy - but they encourage the growth of the individual that is willing to take a step back and evaluate themselves objectively. Sometimes having the blinders removed while standing in front of a mirror is ugly. People who do not lead stagnant lives understand the value and importance of doing such though.

Mikell, I know I've told you this personally before, but I truly think, outside of whatever has happened in past interactions, that your impression of who Weird is or what his intentions are, is grossly incorrect. As humans, a need to be correct, can often times become an unintentional point of contention when others are merely looking to share their thoughts and personal experiences. Our perceptions are responsible for how we interpret the information put before us and morphs the light in which we view its presenter. I would really like to see the two of you find common ground in the fact we all love this plant and often times it is discovered through conversations that transpire, such as on the previous pages - not only are we growing this plant, but we are growing our being as well and each of us in our own way, are trying to have a positive impact on the world around us, either through the practice of growing this plant or sharing with others what we have learned as a result of consuming it.

Sometimes, harmony is found within the discord. I'd like to believe that is the end result achieved by these conversations.

Coba red flagged these conversations but I think this particular series of exchanges are part of the re-unifying of this sub-forum as it continues to heal itself from previous events. I think once and for all the various segmented factions are interacting again and are becoming comfortable and no longer feeling threatened or placed in competition by discussing our various organic practices. I think these last few pages demonstrate how far we have come - not that we are going backwards. I'd hate to see you bow out, Coba. I for one, think we are on the cusp of being able to share freely and openly once again.



dank.Frank

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Thanks for recognizing my true intentions.

Harmony is not realized if we are compromising any humanity in ourselves or others. One way this happens when we lower the bar and all come together based on the LCD or lowest common denominator. It is basic gang mentality psychology. It happens on the internet often and degrades communities.

In order to be a thriving community at optimal health, just like we do in our gardens we need to raise the bar, not lower it. It is a common realization that we come to after we play the LCD game and find the downside that exists to it.

Raising the bar or even coming from a position where the bar has been raised scares those who are foreign to the concept because they feel it implies separation or disconnection or worse judgement.

The converse is that the person coming from the higher perspective is doing it to share the benefits they achieved after struggling with the same dynamic and discovering a more harmonious resolve. It is not out of judgement but out of compassion that people raise the bar and hope that others will understand why.

In order to achieve harmony among humanity we have to set a bar that benefits us all equally in the end, not benefits one of us more than the other.

Here is where the next obstacle arises, because many people think in terms of totalities and either you are meeting the bar set or you fail. Where in our condition and our environment does not work that way and that bar is a destination we strive for and through our collective experiences and support we achieve it together.

That is how cutting edge communities did it in computers.

It is a dynamic I have realized on many levels in my life.

remember I don't every proselytize or leave the little nook where I practice what I preach and reached a level of capacity plying techniques to meet that raised bar. I only judge and call people out after they attack my character.

I have been communicating through a digital interface since before there was a public internet. I have a good grasp of how to use words on it, perhaps intimidating at times, but as you have come to know Frank I am doing nothing bu challenging everyone to embrace the conscious we all posses which has become so hard for many of us based on life condition, which is why we embrace this plant in the first place.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is what is about in the end. Harmony realized from understanding based on embracing our shared underlying humanity.

Getting people to realize it takes some dedication and consistency thus my relentless nature. I apologize for the sharpness of it, and will work to be more compassionate in my attempt to open eyes to these dynamics.

The ultimate benefit for me is every time it these meanings are opened in other peoples minds and hearts it actualized what I found in my own being. It starts and stops there for me, because this is the ultimate teaching a relationship with this plant helped facilitate.

Weird said:

Thanks for recognizing my true intentions.

Harmony is not realized if we are compromising any humanity in ourselves or others. One way this happens when we lower the bar and all come together based on the LCD or lowest common denominator. It is basic gang mentality psychology. It happens on the internet often and degrades communities.

In order to be a thriving community at optimal health, just like we do in our gardens we need to raise the bar, not lower it. It is a common realization that we come to after we play the LCD game and find the downside that exists to it.

Raising the bar or even coming from a position where the bar has been raised scares those who are foreign to the concept because they feel it implies separation or disconnection or worse judgement.

The converse is that the person coming from the higher perspective is doing it to share the benefits they achieved after struggling with the same dynamic and discovering a more harmonious resolve. It is not out of judgement but out of compassion that people raise the bar and hope that others will understand why.

In order to achieve harmony among humanity we have to set a bar that benefits us all equally in the end, not benefits one of us more than the other.

Here is where the next obstacle arises, because many people think in terms of totalities and either you are meeting the bar set or you fail. Where in our condition and our environment does not work that way and that bar is a destination we strive for and through our collective experiences and support we achieve it together.

That is how cutting edge communities did it in computers.

It is a dynamic I have realized on many levels in my life.

remember I don't every proselytize or leave the little nook where I practice what I preach and reached a level of capacity plying techniques to meet that raised bar. I only judge and call people out after they attack my character.

I have been communicating through a digital interface since before there was a public internet. I have a good grasp of how to use words on it, perhaps intimidating at times, but as you have come to know Frank I am doing nothing bu challenging everyone to embrace the conscious we all posses which has become so hard for many of us based on life condition, which is why we embrace this plant in the first place.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo is what is about in the end. Harmony realized from understanding based on embracing our shared underlying humanity.

Getting people to realize it takes some dedication and consistency thus my relentless nature. I apologize for the sharpness of it, and will work to be more compassionate in my attempt to open eyes to these dynamics.

The ultimate benefit for me is every time it these meanings are opened in other peoples minds and hearts it actualized what I found in my own being. It starts and stops there for me, because this is the ultimate teaching a relationship with this plant helped facilitate.

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Another well written and meaningful post.

It like your in my head weird. It's hard walking that line, to say something and be the 'dick' or to just keep your mouth shut. When in actuality you are just trying to help everyone grow. If someone is not ready to hear it, it is just as dogmatic to say they are holier then thou. Pushing people to not try harder because of your own hang ups will not help anyone grow.

We all just need be open minded to all opinions. Investigate said opinions and the choose to agree or disagree.

Informing others of all the possible paths is a righteous goal. Forcing your ideals on other is not..

We need to set the bar higher. We are living in a very interesting time and personal responsibility will be the deciding factor how this turns out. Some might not be awakend to this fact yet but we are all on our own paths.

We all just need to keep fighting the good fight.

Knowlage is power, ignorance is bliss and with knowlage comes responsibility.

Excellent words, Frank. Part of me likes Weird, especially after reading your post. Then.. yeah.

Maybe I have read him wrong, on one level or another. I still see it, but then perception's a bitch and I know when I look hard enough, I find what I'm looking for even if I only come away with a handful of straw.

Never could suffer sanctimony, good intentions or not. Sticks in the gall like a stone. Reminds me too much of TM, but without the psychotic tendencies and a fair stretch smarter.

If you'll try to stick around Coba, I can try to be less of a shit.

I grew organic when I first joined ICMag from the Farm a little while ago… It was when Logic first moved to Spain and then got “robbed", right before Divine genetics. Anyways, when I was first lurking I found some fascinating threads where a group of seemingly well natured members were trying to decipher what was in stuff like Botanicare’s Liquid Karma and how to build quality dirt. Those threads were fun to read and watch while these dudes (a few are probably reading this right now) figured out the secrets to the “proprietary” blends. they got it too. That, to me, was the essence of this organics section and what attracted me to it there for a while… breaking down the proprietary barriers, cracking the code, hacking the “game changers”. Learning the difference of all the ingredients and learning where to find the real list of proprietary ingredients (MSDS Sheets, etc.) and how to replicate those inexpensively. I learned the difference between products developed and marketed exclusively to clandestine cannabis growers who were outside the mainstream agricultural loops and the heavy price tag that allowed. It's a big business selling ignorant closet growers water at a 600% markup.
I watched while it turned too… When, entered in the shill. Compensated representatives posting how wonderful this new bottled game changer was and how that proprietary blend of stuff will make all your dreams come true. Usually new members with very few post counts making exotic claims... At least, I thought they were shills. I came to that conclusion when they were getting flamed out of the threads by being called a shill by some of the organic “gurus” of the time. In my mind, that’s when the battles began. The Shill Vs. The Organic “Warrior” (I still won’t write the “T-ist” word into my computer on an open forum) in a battle royal, winner take all (“ALL” being the minds and wallets of thousands of ICMag lurkers). So, then, to me, that was the sport. Shooting down shills who wanted me to blindly buy their products. How could I, after I had learned how to make something 100x’s better in my own back yard? And, how dare them, don’t they know? this was organic warrior territory. The flames got hot and hostile and... unfortunately indiscriminate. To the point where anybody who walked in the doors and said they liked Liquid Karma or raw milk or sea salt was instantly flamed out. Being labeled as a shill on the way back out the door. it was camp vs camp. A new list of unapproved ingredients came out every week it seemed. And, anyone who used those ingredients was a target, a SHILL. But, what I didn’t see was, the people who were doing the name-calling, calling everyone else a shill… were pretty fucking shill themselves. Nope, blinded by the sport, I did it like most. Newbs came in caught on… decided that anyone who isn’t an organic guru gets the “treatment”. I was in it as much as anyone else. It was hostile. Too hostile sometimes… it was definitely a mob mentality, complete with hierarchy. People were coming in just to challenge the hierarchy guys… I watched some pretty cool members get flamed out of that ROLS thread. That was around the time I took a break. When I came back, the ROLS gang had been banned when Incredibowlboss (now Adam Dunn’s co-host) tried to organize a ROLS trip to Jamaica. In the ROLS members invite only social club. Anyone who didn’t get banned in that first swing of the ban hammer did outrageous stuff just to get banned. Then, after they all got banned, Mr. Sterling deleted the whole club. It’s all gone. Those guys, and their club have left. They’ve moved on... ROLS, I think that term should die a quick death. I’ve made some drunken posts, started a stupid thread… but then, I explored different parts of this site and I started to see common themes, most everyone here is pretty fucking cool. Something that a few of you guys already knew. Something I couldn't see for a while... and, that ROLS has a bad image.
So, now that the flamers have left, I feel anyone else who is here who tries to start shit is dumb, completely lost. Purposely creating this camp vs that camp is losing focus of the essence of ICMag itself, which is simply a network of cannabis growers. Use it as a podium or soap box with caution, please. Because I for one, refuse to be a part of the polarization process again. I feel I’ve missed out on too many quality relationships that cross growing style sub-genre boundaries doing that. I'd rather foster a spirit of fellowship… maybe in doing so educate as well. when I asked myself why am I here? I decided that the Fellowship outweighs the Dogma drama, I am focused now on forging new, meaningful friendships and less on deciding which camp I belong to.
My reading comprehension is selective, I will admit. Long, driven, convoluted essays sprinkled with the perfect adjectives, sometimes do not get my full attention, I apologize for that. If I misunderstood any one post, I also apologize for that too.

Please let me make clear that the podium I participate from is one that leads to 0 commercial interests and I have avoided that distraction because money through expertise is not a true metric of mastery nor is it a metric of passion.

I too reverse engineered the products parallel to these guys in my grows. I did not change my methodologies because I was every producing substandard flowers. My prohibition paranoia had simply created a desire to be able to work "off grid".

In the end, why we start to use organics can be completely different for all of us as are the benefits as they manifest.

I was a part of the new community at one point and left, not because I have a judgement against them, but because I felt the commingling profiting and making knowledge exclusive stifles learning about natural systems which are in need of our stewardship to maintain. That was the gem in the rols methodology, that it worked, it could be done from a self sufficient and sustainable manner. I didn't want to be a leak of information nor did I feel LOS/ROLS requires a proprietary methodology to successfully deploy. I didn't learn it in that manner, it was shared with me freely and I feel somewhat obligated to do the same.

I got there bit by bit step by step, outside of traditional means because as prohibition grower I am used to solving problems on my own. I can't do that if I don't have intimate knowledge of causation. None of my grow represent finite measurements or redundancy. Every one is different, I fed them diff, tried a different technique, while getting plants to achieve full potential, and when I failed I kept at it till I over came that failure. Even my rols is treated a bit differently each time based on how I feel I can effect the outcome based on the current set of conditions.

In an open source community where the only benefit is driving knowledge, you can't get it to go further if everyone is not on a similar page.

This is why conceptual talk in focused forums can cause so much chaos and why relevance and relativity in context with the thread are critical and might effect different contributors differently.

Am I a master of pot? No but I have proven proficiency enough times in enough formats to prove its not a fluke. Does this make me great? no but it gives me a bit of information in regards to growing. Is this information in conflict with other information or complimentary? I think this is where we have a choice to interpret things. I personally think everyone's collective experiences let us see the true dimensions of hte plant.

Do I think we should have a open source forum where people share information in a focused without personal agendas effecting the whole? Yeah which is why I contribute under a guise that has no link to revenue or self serving (that I can consciously perceive). Not condemning making money with pot or organics or a combination thereof. I just think open source communities driven by passion not revenues is our most valuable tool for learning what I have expressed as cutting edge, and that is the adoption of ROLS to growing cannabis.

gets a little funny when the focus is a mind and mood altering drug discussing cultivation of a mind and mood altering drug, and the personalities it attracts (my own included) but it, if nothing else keeps it interesting.

Quite the read guys... I'm not even going to bother picking out points as I am lazy but would just like to say that I whole heartedly approve of these conversations.

I tend to be a fairly harsh person and dont have many issues reading between the lines so weirds posts always seem to get overreacted about in my opinion.

I just figured it was important for me to voice that these kindof conversations are ok and imo not at all taking away from the thread. Organics is a philosphy, it's sad that people are so gung-ho to remove that and try to make it a "pure" science. Some could argue I'm talking about permaculture but thats semantics imo.

I know many dont have brains geared toward "philosophy" or just choose to ignore its importance in all subjects but I think that we are comming to a point in humanity where it is vital people start to look at things from a deeper perspective. It's too bad these things are so hard to talk about with the general public but there is such a huge knowledge disparity it's hard to know where to start such a conversation without stepping on toes. It's sad that everytime I try to have a conversation with average american joe about sustainability it always turns into them feeling attacked "what you think you're better because you buy local!?!" No bro, I hate myself for being a burdon on mother earth and just want to help the entity that has given us all this beautiful enviroment to live in- even if it's just to make myself feel better. I just like to talk about what I like, no different from you shoving how good the seahawks are doing down my throat.
I guess the average american subconscience is extremely guilty. Lol I kid (kindof).

Again, thank you all for taking your time to respond in such depth, every one of the last couple days of posts are a beautiful piece of humanity. Like watching humus grow, might not be the prettyest, even discusting to some, but step back and all of the sudden you find yourself wanting to decay into it... lol...

Shout out to dank.frank for being awsome.

The Hitch: Gibberati Extraordinaire and Purveyor of Verbosity.

The Hitch: Gibberati Extraordinaire and Purveyor of Verbosity.

I feel like I need to say that not all of that was directed exclusively at you Weird. I'm sure you already knew that because I think you are an extremely insightful person. I started my [rant] in an earlier post and then edited the post to put a picture of a plant in there instead. I felt it was too heavy, too soon after B1's return... looks like I was alone in those thoughts. anyways, I think we (you and I Weird) have a lot in common, working with the 1's and 0's, listening to the new minglewood blues, growing our philosophy on sustainability, and I know you have the fellowship in your heart... I hope we can always be friends man, I think you are super smart in a good way

omg i'm getting real misty eyed over here guys.

feel the love!

i will vouch for weird's good intentions and pure heart. he gets philosophical but it's not pretentious in my opinion. the guy has some deep thoughts and feels---authentically.

he and i have discussed cynicism vs altruism as it relates to growing canna and more generally as it exists in our day to day experiences. i, representing the cynical side, was impressed with his answers to my most flippant points and counterpoints. it was an illuminating conversation.

i really feel coba's post about avoiding being drawn into the mob mentality and trying to keep this subforum intelligent and critical without sinking into pettiness and egomania. there are a lot of brilliant people participating in this little corner of the interwebs, and each of us has strong opinions, personal experiences, and reams of research to contribute.

as i said before, i invite debate and critique. if we were all just nodding dunces doubletapping "like" on pics of "dank fire" then we'd just be instagram, and the true educational value of this forum would be lost.

these conversations keep me coming back here. it feels vital. as long as we are all being civil and pushing eachother's ideas forward, we are stronger than we could ever be as isolated hermits. when the drama overwhelms the constructiveness, then we begin to lose participants.

i look forward to evolving in the way frank imagined. i see a positive progression in the organic forum. i like to see new methodologies thrive alongside established ones. we can all learn from each other. at the very least i just like looking at beautiful cannabis plants and flowers!

i think the mineralized soil guys have brought a great new perspective to the forum. i have yet to incorporate any advice from that thread in my own garden, but it's nice to be adjacent to their threads and know if i need crazy soil testing advice or specifically formulated rescue foliars we've got some experts here to share their knowledge.

i hope we see a similar subcommunity of fermentation farmers---the dr. cho heads---that KNF tech lol. when i first joined jayKUSH was sharing a lot of his work with similar preparations and i found it incredibly inspiring. i still use nettle and comfrey FPE occasionally.

vortex and ecks have me reexamining biodynamic preparations recently. maybe they will generate some critical mass and attract more BD canna farmers. my east coast cynicism keeps me at least 10% skeptical of that woo woo california hippy shit, but the rest of me is very interested to see the results of following that protocol.

blah blah blah, big happy family, learning from everyone, group hug.

Shaolin Jedi

Shaolin Jedi

I detect pretension in this thread but not a scintilla from Weird.

Weird Shaolin Level: GrandMaster /Monk
Weird Jedi Level:3rd eye master

deepWeird
deepHeady Blunts
deepBurn One

蚱蜢

My pet worms eat my pet rabbits poo.

Tell me that's not a good looking bag of ferts right there.

Pet me!!!!!

Skinny Leaf said:

My pet worms eat my pet rabbits poo.

Tell me that's not a good looking bag of ferts right there.

Pet me!!!!!

View Image

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LMAO.

Skinny Leaf said:

My pet worms eat my pet rabbits poo.

Tell me that's not a good looking bag of ferts right there.

Pet me!!!!!

View Image

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Bust him for posting spam!

Microbeman said:

Bust him for posting spam!

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Spam is made from pork. I dont see any there. Just a bag.

Yeah, that is one spoiled bunny. Well they all are. All of them stay in the house. At one time we had 12. No we didn't eat them. We gave several away to high schoolers for FFA.

I grow some of their food. Mostly cilantro, parsley and carrots. They don't get alot of pellet food. In reality, I could spend way less on just buying amendments for the gardening than feeding the rabbits. But, we enjoy the rabbits and the worms. Hopefully, by the summer, I can add fish to the soil food web. Thanks for looking.

that's some extra cute livestock you got there SL!