I believe that the growing method of "12/12 from seed" rates its own sub-forum.

These are some of the reasons:

1) it fits the needs of a substantial group of growers that, for a variety of reasons, want to keep the size of their gardens as small as possible. At the moment, people who want/need to keep their gardens small are frequently advised to grow lowryder or a LR hybrid. What a shame to limit yourself to such a shallow gene pool when the cannabis family has an incredible phenotype to grace our gardens with. I am of the belief that 12/12 from seed will work great on most varieties, indica and sativa.

2) it is a largely unexplored method at present, without much representative data here at IC, and would benefit the growing community by encouraging growers to try this method and post on their results. So far, the reports have been nothing but excellent for the most part, but we need to have a lot more folks growing with this method to really understand it well.

3) it would serve to dispel a lot of misinformation regarding the method...many here at IC (and OG when it was up and running) seem to believe that the results are less than satisfactory using this method, even though they have never tried it, yet most who have tried report excellent results.

4) it would allow for specific searches to be done within the 12/12 sub-forum, which would avoid having to read a multitude of posts where the 12/12 is mentioned as a sideline. If I want to see how Nirvana Bubblelicious does under this method, I have to look through all the posts that have Bubblelicious mentioned, none of which happen to be about 12/12 growing.

5) it would serve as a database for grow reports using this method, helping us decide which plant varieties do well under this method, and which (if any..) don't do as well. For example, their seems to be a general consensus that using 12/12 from seed is ONLY useful on sativas or sativa dominant plants in order to limit their size. There are many who believe that potency is reduced using this method. Neither of the above beliefs holds true, and having a sub-forum where this method is discussed thoroughly and regularly will help dispel these misconceptions.

That is all I can come up with off the top of my head here, but I am sure there are other reasons. I would guess that a large portion of the IC community are concerned about how global heating is impacting the planet, and its future generations, and how the use of energy is playing a huge part in that problem. One fantastic thing about the 12/12 method is that it uses much less energy to grow the plants, better for our planet, and better for our energy bills from the utility company.

Anyway, we really need to start talking about this method on a regular basis and recommending it to folks who'se needs it fits. Giving the 12/12 from seed method its own sub-forum would do much to make that happen.

Thanks for listening/reading.

Hal

Not too mention that it would be a sensible sub-forum for anyone who sells beans....

[BaffledMonkey]

A new subforum would indicate that it is an endorsed method of growing, and im not so sure it is. I think 12/12 from seed should be a last resort method of growing, and not actively encouraged.
Im not saying you can't do it, I understand some people will grow this way for a many number of reasons. It's just that id always recommend people get at least some veg time, to reap a better harvest and give themselves a grow they deserve.
Peace
Baffled

Originally Posted by BaffledMonkey

A new subforum would indicate that it is an endorsed method of growing, and im not so sure it is. I think 12/12 from seed should be a last resort method of growing, and not actively encouraged.
Im not saying you can't do it, I understand some people will grow this way for a many number of reasons. It's just that id always recommend people get at least some veg time, to reap a better harvest and give themselves a grow they deserve.
Peace
Baffled

Howdy Baffled,

Thanks for responding.

I will agree with you that it isn't, at the moment, and endorsed method of growing. This is due to the fact that it hasn't been attempted by very many growers, not due to it being a bad way to grow.

You said it best yourself, above: "I understand some people will grow this way for a many number of reasons." There happen to be a ton of people who would like to grow but don't have the space, or the privacy, to attempt a garden that will give a large harvest.

And:"give themselves a grow they deserve." That is the question. What is "a grow they deserve?" Not everyone desires/needs a large harvest. Not everyone wants to risk major legal problems that the discovery of a large garden brings. The list goes on.

When giving advice to people, it is best to consider their particular wants and needs, and not to advise them based on what you personally want from a garden. It would seem best to encourage them to grow a garden that fits their situation.

Thanks again for responding.

Hal

Daisy...Daisy....

bump

[alphacat]

I know this ain't a growshow, but I'm pulling up a chair anyways. Having just gotten back into the hobby there's always new stuff to learn, like this - never heard of it before.

Any links to threads detailing actual pros & cons?

Personally I think every possible way to grow mj should be encouraged, and that the question at hand is if there are enough people on these forums that grow with this type of method?

If height is an issue I would veg out a topped bush and SCROG.

12/12 from seed requires too many plants to grow any real weight.

Many juristictions go by plant numbers, and they consider each plant to be worth way more than what each of your plants will really be worth, especially if your going to be starting seeds from 12/12.

It is kind of hard to explain to the judge you just used a SOG technique, and didn't get as much per plant, at least without paying an expert witness to testify at your trial, and even then it is a stretch.

Guy over in Security & Legal is looking at 7-20 years for 50 plants.

Say you get 14 grams tops per plant from starting 50 seeds on 12/12 immediately.

That is less than 750 grams.

Do you want to go to jail for 20 years for 750 grams?

Think about it.

It is great to experiment, but most people here are not scientists with permits to do experiments with Cannabis.

I applaud your innovation and commitment to improving growing techniques, but I fear for your well being.

7-8 weeks of 12/12, since they were put in the netcups as seedlings.. NO veg time .
arjans haze x kali mist.. theyre 5 feet tall now!

a subforum for this would be cool

Hey alphacat...yeah, there are a few threads that describe grows. I'll see if I can hunt a few down and post them here. Glad to see your interested. I can probably list the pros and cons in a general way:

- if you have limited space, this method will shrink the size of the plants, both in height and girth. it also reduces yield, so if you want to grow large crops this isn't the method to go with. Still, yields of 1 ounce per plant (dried) are normal using this method. I don't smoke too much, and that is plenty for me.

- it reduces the amount of time you invest in each crop...so actually, even though you are getting reduced yields, per plant, it is expected that you could fit in one more crop cycle each year, which would make up for some of the reduced yield.

- it eliminates the need for separate veg/flower rooms. You can have a perpetual grow going with seedlings and beautiful pole shaped colas right next to each other.

- it reduces power consumption. If a grower is vegging their plants for one month at 24 hrs a day, thats a lot of extra electricity.

- it can help with heat issues, which seem to plague quite a few growers it would seem (usually the less advanced, newbie types who haven't got all the equipment that many of the more serious growers have).

- it saves you the trouble of spending all that time vegging your plants, and then finding you spent a lot of time working with a bunch of males. The plants will generally show their sex around 2 to 3 weeks old. Then just toss the males.

lets see, there's probably a few more that aren't occurring to me right now. But still, even those reasons that I just presented are pretty important.

Hey Unbound....I believe that the # of growers using this method are somewhat limited at the moment, but that doesn't have anything to do with its effectiveness. There just aren't a lot of growers who know about this, and who have actually tried doing. There are quite a few growers who dismiss this method, only because it doesn't result in huge yields. Of course, huge yields aren't important to many here on IC. When other growers, many whom have great big beautiful gardens and expertise, bad mouth this method it serves to keep everybody, especially newbs, in the dark.

Hey Lurkerguy....you are absolutely correct about the danger of growing a lot of small plants in states whose cultivation laws are based on the # of plants grown as opposed to total weight. In that case, growing this method might be dangerous. You would need to research the laws of your state to make sure you stayed as safe as possible. My state has its penalties based on total weight. That being said, my gardens are quite small, usually around 5 plants (and like I said earlier, my first attempt at using this method got me at least 1 ounce of dried bud from each of my 4 plants, which ranged in height from 12" to 23" at harvest), and as long as you can keep your lips zipped, it is pretty hard to get busted with such a small garden.

Hey Longdivision....nice to see someone who is well aquainted with the method! Just imagine what those sativa genes would be doing if you did a bit of vegging! I have never grown any sativa dominant plants, but look forward to doing so in the near future.

Does anyone think setting up a poll, to see how many growers have tried growing with this method, would be a good thing to do?

Lets keep talking about this.