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Old 02-17-2019, 04:07 AM #1
Organilush
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Questions relating to genetics (plants that self pollinated)

I grew 4 plants from clones last year (outdoors). It was my very first grow.


Frosted Cherry Cookies, Tangieland, South Fork Kush, and Slymer.


All 4 plants ended up with some seed. Not totally chock full of seed, but there's a seed here & there in just about every large bud.

The Tangieland and Frosted Cherry Cookies had the most seed, the SFK had a lesser amount, and the Slymer had the least.



I never spotted male pollen sacs, and never once spotted any bananas in any of the buds as they were growing...and I scoped out my plants every single day, so I was very surprised to find some seed in the buds when it came time to trimming & breaking some up to smoke....But from what I understand, it's pretty easy to not notice a "banana", I hear they can be very hard to spot and tucked up in the bud.....?....

...I'm assuming my plants self pollinated, I really don't know how else the seed got there. When ever I do find a seed, they are soemtimes in "clusters" of two right beside eachother.





Questions......

Are some strains far more prone to pushing out "bananas" in flowering, like is this just a particular trait that some genetic lines/strains have?..IS this something that some strains do regardless, or does it take a "stress" trigger of sorts?....Will any strain of cannabis do this if it is "stressed out"?

Is a "banana" different from a typical male pollen sac on a true male plant?...And is a plant that pushes out "bananas" during flowering technically not hermaphrodite?




I am wondering if I understand this correctly...???...>>>>>

If my plants were self pollinated, then the plants grown from their seed will be female...???....

But these female plants will have a tendency to also push out bananas and self polinate during late flower or if stressed at any point during flowering...???....

Are those two statements true?



As far as the traits....If my plants pollinated themselves, can I expect very similar traits in the plants grown from those seed? I'm just trying to understand what comes out from a seed that was created by a plant that pollinated itself.

Say if I have 50 seeds from my Tangieland plant which pollinated itself....if I grow out those 50 seeds, is there going to be a broad range of different traits among those 50 plants?......Or will they be mostly identical to the plant they came from (which was self polinated)?...



I've heard some folks say to throw away any seed that comes from a self pollinated plant, since this is just perpetuating and reinforcing the genetic trait of self polination.....?....





.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:36 AM #2
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Shit man, those are A LOT of questions.

I’ll give it a shot even though I am currently high as fuck. I just finished doing some work shit and didn’t fuck that up, but if anyone sees an error/ disagrees with me, please feel free to let me know. I find being able to take criticism as a sign of growth, and some other motivational poster shit like that. On to the questions...

Some strains are more prone to non stress related hermaphrodism, for example I have a strain called Hong Kong that I fucked around with for a couple of years trying to breed the hermaphrodite trait out of to no avail.

Most hemp and some landrace sativas have hermie leaning genetics. As well as some strains (see above).

Other strains require a stress trigger...ex. a light leak, lack of/or too much nutes, photo period interruptions in regular schedules, physical stresses (ex. pruning during flowering gone wrong), lack of/or too much water, more heat than normal (had that happen once when my AC went out one summer), letting the plants flower too long (rodelization), bugs and some other things I forgot (feel free to chime in here IC).

I have no idea if hermaphrodism can be observed via stress in all cannabis strains. I would hazard a guess that since some strains are more prone to herm traits other strains are more prone to being strictly male or female.

In my experience a banana sometimes is slightly different in structure than a typical pollen sac in that it does not always drop as much pollen and requires extra work to remove/ store pollen from (what I do is place the dried bananas in a small container with a marble and it pulverizes it) and some drop giant ass sacs that the pollen will readily fall from that are exactly like regular males in structure.

A plant that pushes out bananas during flowering without a feminizing agent (colloidal silver, silver thiosulfate) is prone to hermaphrodism.

If your plants are self pollinated, then the plants grown from their seed will have hermaphrodite traits. Meaning you’ll always have seeds even if you don’t want them.

Those female plants will actually be hermaphrodites and will have a tendency to also push out bananas and self polinate during late flower or if stressed at any point during flowering, or just for the hell of it ( Ex. Hong Kong).

Those two statements are true to the best of my knowledge. Fell free to correct me if needed.

As far as the traits....If your plants pollinated themselves, you can expect very similar traits in the plants grown from those seed if they are the same homozygous strain. Weed that pollinates itself without stress are hermaphrodite.

If you have 50 seeds from Tangieland that you pop you will most likely see shitload of variation in your first generation due to Tangie and Candyland having a varied lineage. Shitloads of different ancestors, who themselves have shitloads of ancestors.

Ex. I’m running Tangie right now and all four females I have show some variance. Two are tall with 3-4 inch internodes and one has hollow stems and one doesn’t/ one is short and bushy with nodes about an inch apart, and one is an orange smelling pheno.

If you want similar genetics each generation try out some landraces (I have a Santa Marta Colombian Gold and some Afghani landraces that have always grown out the same).

I typically keep all my seed. I label seeds that are hermaphrodite, feminized, regular, etc. my main focus is breeding, unlike people who run all sensimilla. Seeds = smaller buds, so if you are looking to harvest more bud you can’t if your plant’s buds are full of seeds. Because once again seed = small buds. Which may be why people typically won’t abide a plant with hermie traits in their grow.

And from running about six generations of Hong Kong I can vouch that the herm trait does perpetuate itself when bred with itself. F2, F3, F4, F5, etc. everything hermed.

I typically kill herms, mainly because I fucking hate them. I’ve had herms ruin breeding projects and set me back, so yeah. Fuck ‘em.

I’m going to smoke some more now. I hope this helps.
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Last edited by MintyMick; 02-17-2019 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: I’m high, so of course there were typos.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:45 AM #3
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I just thought of something:

If this is an outside grow, or your inside grow is less that air tight (most of ours aren’t) your girls may have been pollinated by someone elses grow.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:50 AM #4
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What MintyMick said.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:08 PM #5
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Well, I am growing out right now 2 beans that I found in one of my Tommy Chong's L A Amnesia Fem. They should both be females. So far so good. They are about 2.5 weeks old.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:36 PM #6
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Being that you grew those plants outdoors, I would eat those seeds.

The pollen source could have been a HEMP grow if there are any near by.
If this be the case, my brother grew some F1s from the hemp pollination and they turned out alright.

If those plants tossed nanners in an outdoor enviro, chances are that it will happen again for the simple reason of not knowing the stressful factor that caused the nanners to grow to begin with. Of course, you can always test a few from each plant and see what happens but 3-6 months is a bit of an investment. You may find some real keepers, you may not. If you find males then chances are you haven't experienced a herm pollination and the seeds can be used for future grows.

As for the resulting plants...
All the parents are super duper poly multi hybrid...
You could end up seeing just about anything from those seeds. However, a few may resemble the parents. Good luck if you do pop those seeds.

A true hermaphrodite, by my understanding, produces both male and female flowers independent of one another. A plant that tosses nanners only is considered intersex.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:49 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJPassion View Post
Being that you grew those plants outdoors, I would eat those seeds.

The pollen source could have been a HEMP grow if there are any near by.
If this be the case, my brother grew some F1s from the hemp pollination and they turned out alright.

If those plants tossed nanners in an outdoor enviro, chances are that it will happen again for the simple reason of not knowing the stressful factor that caused the nanners to grow to begin with. Of course, you can always test a few from each plant and see what happens but 3-6 months is a bit of an investment. You may find some real keepers, you may not. If you find males then chances are you haven't experienced a herm pollination and the seeds can be used for future grows.

As for the resulting plants...
All the parents are super duper poly multi hybrid...
You could end up seeing just about anything from those seeds. However, a few may resemble the parents. Good luck if you do pop those seeds.

A true hermaphrodite, by my understanding, produces both male and female flowers independent of one another. A plant that tosses nanners only is considered intersex.
You seem pretty experienced let me ask u this........of cultivars in the last that were top shelf, the ones that had hermaphroditism traits .....I've seen a couple discussions where folks claim some potent varietals were developed from hermaphroditic stock. Is this true!? How do they keep it from having those issues or do we embrace them and try to see what kind of expressions these mutants put off, I ask because I hate killing plants unless I absolutely have to.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:08 AM #8
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That's a simple one...


If YOU are satisfied with the end product that is the only thing that matters.


If you don't mind searching for and plucking balls or nanners to mitigate the seed issue, that is also an option. The larger the plants the larger the burden.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:22 AM #9
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Fair enough! Thankyou!
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:44 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MintyMick View Post
I just thought of something:

If this is an outside grow, or your inside grow is less that air tight (most of ours aren’t) your girls may have been pollinated by someone elses grow.
I use HEPA class intake filters to prevent this. That being said, I've also had plants self pollinate and found only the tiniest male flowers deep within a few female flowers.
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