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Led CoBs vs LED CoB, Plus: Surrounded by Blue, Red and IR

PetFlora

PetFlora

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IMHO this thread is long overdue. Why?

Most of the CoB lights, be they manufactured or DIY, are strictly single spectrum CoBs; 3500K, 4000K, maybe even some 4500k vs Amare Technologies CoB hybrid which uses Cree CBX 3070 CoBs.

Each Amare CoB is surrounded with a ring of Cree deep blues, deep reds and IRs, said to enhance those specific spectrums during both veg and flower that amp up chlorophyll A & B , sort of like adding a turbo, or super charger to an already high performance motor.

If it matters, by how much?

Looking at the Cree CBX 3070 product page on Amare own website, the extra ring does not seem at all needed. Maybe all that is needed is the IR diodes, So, I do wonder how much MORE will it bring to the harvest to justify its additional complexity and cost. I get why many DIYers call BS. Assuming the new Amare SE 250 arrives in time to use for flowering, we'll get a first hand comparison. I have no axe to grind. Was it Eisenstein who said "Things should be as simple as they need to be, and no simpler'?

My plan is to use the SE 250 without using the extra diodes (the rings total ~ 100w) in one tent and in the SE 220 in another using the CoBs and surrounding diodes, so 220w v 150w. That disparity alone could well make this side-by side moot. I am open to a manufacturer providing their CXB 3070 or Vero CoB only near 250 watts actual

New baby seedlings are vegging under 4 Transcend Lighting LED T5s @ 30w in my DIY bubble Bath, and should be ready to flip in 3-4 weeks.
 
Tactical Farmer

Tactical Farmer

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Got my first LED experience and I'm totally blown away with the results.

Its 11 spectrum with mostly blues n reds.

Adding cobs next for more whites.
 
jikko77

jikko77

Active member
signed, i want to see what will be the "result".

imho, if i may add something to the puzzle:
diy'er tend to take the best bin available, no idea what bin are used by amare.

the bin could make a lot of difference, if you want to do an "accurate" analysis you have to look for a similar bin/cri/color-temp than the one used by amare; even the amps influence the cobs output. the thumb of rule is: the higher the bin the higher the lumen output, the higher the current the lower the efficency. (if something is wrong or unclear correct me).

on top of that you've to decide if use or not use lens, lens modify the output as well, so do the reflector. before running the test you've to put in the same "condition the cob" you'll test.


:tiphat:
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

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Welcome

IMHO (not based on science) is the difference between best bin vs slightly lower bins would be negligible to plant development/growth

TF: multi-band diodes are a poor and inefficient way to provide a full spectrum. This method also significantly decreases the life expectancy of said panels as the reds are the least efficient, generating the most heat. Also the 660nm flowering myth has long been disproven, and again comes at a price.

The following was provided by a grower who was way ahead of the curve back in 2012...


the CREE Neutral White (I call it 'Goldilocks', because it's almost 'just right'
wink.gif
) has a RSPD that still allows nearly ~25% of its total power in the blue range (and plants only really 'need' ~8-10%),
>

(i.e. 630nm red is ~95% of the PSR of 660nm, AND they currently still have ~20-30% greater radiometric efficiency - as well as being cheaper than the deep reds - so there's more 'bang for the buck'):


White CoBs are full range, but depending on kelvin, will tilt more toward blue or red. It appears that a simple 3500K CoB provides an excellent combination of full PAR spectrum for growing cannabis, and probably most plants
 
jikko77

jikko77

Active member
note: i'm not posting just for the dutchbag sake, i'm posting because i'm interested in this as well, nor i want to look like a teacher, i just want to understand.

based on some research:

the higher the bin the higher photon/lumen the cob CANproduce at a said amp value.
is well documented on the datsheet as well.
but be carefull, the higher the current the lower the cob is efficent. (the higher the current the lower the ppfd (is right is ppfd?) )

i do agree on the 3500°k for the balance for bot veg and flow.
as per the cri, i'd say to use a 90, lower wold be less beneficial for the grow.
the cri value is what regulate the color gammut of the cob led. (too red or too blue to be clear).

so: bin, cri, kelvin are the key element to check when deciding what cob use for what you want to do.

:tiphat:
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

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jikko77 said:
note: i'm not posting just for the dutchbag sake, i'm posting because i'm interested in this as well, nor i want to look like a teacher, i just want to understand.

based on some research:

the higher the bin the higher photon/lumen the cob CANproduce at a said amp value.
is well documented on the datsheet as well.
but be carefull, the higher the current the lower the cob is efficent. (the higher the current the lower the ppfd (is right is ppfd?) )

i do agree on the 3500°k for the balance for bot veg and flow.
as per the cri, i'd say to use a 90, lower wold be less beneficial for the grow.
the cri value is what regulate the color gammut of the cob led. (too red or too blue to be clear).

so: bin, cri, kelvin are the key element to check when deciding what cob use for what you want to do.

:tiphat:
Click to expand...

Basically, I agree. However, once a plant gets what it needs, I seriously doubt whether 'more' super charges it
 
Koondense

Koondense

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So why would you need the monos for? Good cobs make all the light a plant needs, if are chosen for a purpose(cct).
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

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Koondense said:
So why would you need the monos for? Good cobs make all the light a plant needs, if are chosen for a purpose(cct).
Click to expand...


That's like asking why a 600 hp normally aspirated high performance engine 'needs' twin turbos, or a supercharger
 
jikko77

jikko77

Active member
@petflora: lol depends on the engine

back on topic.
i don't have personal proof, but according to some report a bin difference is a lot of difference in grow. iirc buenotime tried that.
anyway lets see where you will get.

:tiphat:
 
woolybear

woolybear

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i got my shipment of cxb35090 cd bin today. i'm sure they will work out great.

good point about the quality of bins on these lamps. with the prices they charge one would hope they use top quality cobs.

i was a bit hesitant to attempt to build my own but the math makes sense for me, especially since with cobs the wiring is so simple.

good luck petflora
 
jikko77

jikko77

Active member
@petflora: hey, while we had an exchange of point of view here on icmag, i were reading some doc shared by spurr. in particular one talking about UV.

something nice may have come up.

the doc is this one: Possible Role of Ultraviolet Radiation in Evolution of Cannabis hemotypes.

looks like i were wrong. but again, accoridng to the text, there is an impact only from UV-B.

there is an impact from uv-b on the A9THC, and its not something so trascurable, looks like the vawe lenght from 315 to 280 nm (uv-b) add a boost to the resin gland and production. the trascurable one should be the lenght from 400 to 315 nm (UV-A).

from the doc:
CONCLUSIONS
The results of this review appear to indicate that individuals of Cannabis have been naturally selected to produce large quantities of A9THC in situations of high UV-B exposure.
Click to expand...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

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woolybear said:
i got my shipment of cxb35090 cd bin today. i'm sure they will work out great.

good point about the quality of bins on these lamps. with the prices they charge one would hope they use top quality cobs.

i was a bit hesitant to attempt to build my own but the math makes sense for me, especially since with cobs the wiring is so simple.

good luck petflora
Click to expand...


If I was going to build I would follow Growmau's lead with the kit he developed. See his YT videos: Growmau5.

By using individual anodized heat sinks (aside from saving money) an angle frame can be built to slide/move them around.

Also you would have room for 3-5w r/b/ir clusters
 
Koondense

Koondense

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PetFlora said:
That's like asking why a 600 hp normally aspirated high performance engine 'needs' twin turbos, or a supercharger
Click to expand...

Not even slightly, comparing such different things so superficially is plain wrong.

More correct but also strange way to think would be, why would you need an extra set of teeth in your mouth...? :biggrin:
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

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Koondense said:
Not even slightly, comparing such different things so superficially is plain wrong.

More correct but also strange way to think would be, why would you need an extra set of teeth in your mouth...? :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Seriously? The conversation is about adding b/r/ir to further enhance what CoB already does well.

A second set of teeth does nothing to improve eating
 
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