Flood and drain bucket first timer problems

mjlover · Jul 26, 2015

So I just set up my flood and drain bucket system. I followed a write here on how to make a controller bucket and bought a six bucket kit from aqua active /hydrofarm. I initially was only flooding for 15 min 2 x a day beciase the clones are small but I wasn't seeing any growth at all. Almost stunted fromthe clones so I've upped it to 4 times in the 18 hrs on. My ec is at .75 and my ph is 5.8. Am I flooding too much or not enough? Right now I know my humidity is to low at 30-40 and temps are at 80 with the lights on. Here are the pics of my plants. Stems are purple, no real growth from leaves. I did look through the hydroton and the roots are white and fuzzy so I know some growth is happening. Thanks in advance.

Btw the flood time is on for 15 min but it takes about 5-10 min to drain back to the reservoir. So total of about 20-25 min.

mjlover · Jul 27, 2015

No real changes today. I think I'm gonna flush and start with a lower Ec although to me they look nutrient deficient. The ph has gone up some to 6.1 but so has the ec to .79

gmanwho · Jul 28, 2015

2 cents. . its tough at this early stage to see any real improvement, growth. things are usually slow at this stage. hang in there. maybe a little lower nute strength, say 600ppm.

when u see ph go up theres plenty of things that can cause it. 1 is the medium isnt stable yet. 2 the plant maybe eating some of your buffers or specific nutes that keep your ph lower. an 3 is bacterial or fungi growth. i forget which lowers or increases ph;bacterial does one, fungal does other. a by product of their waste changes the ph

so 500-600 ppm, be patient, ride a little ph sing 5.6-6.2, ride it again. you really may not experience growth for a few days. i often see no top growth for a few days, but sometimes you can see roots developing far sooner then you see upper growth.

.5 scale 1.0ec is 1000ppm. .7 scale 1.ec is 1000ppm, if im not mistaken.

the fact you are seeing root growth is a good thing.

lower the ppm an be patient a few days... hang in a try your best not to fuck with everything.

gmanwho · Jul 28, 2015

also, are those bare rooted clones?? or was there a medium used to root the cuts?

rooting cubes or rockwool dont like to stay wet in flood/drain systems. they will rot the stem.

i flood every 3 hours, or 4 hours. then i have another system flood every hr. then i have another system top drip 24/7. in hydroton systems stagnate water can be the problem, not to many flood cycles.

bsafe

mjlover · Jul 29, 2015

gmanwho said:
also, are those bare rooted clones?? or was there a medium used to root the cuts?

rooting cubes or rockwool dont like to stay wet in flood/drain systems. they will rot the stem.

i flood every 3 hours, or 4 hours. then i have another system flood every hr. then i have another system top drip 24/7. in hydroton systems stagnate water can be the problem, not to many flood cycles.

bsafe

Hey thanks for your reply. They are rooted clones that were started in rapid rooters. I've always problem with transition from the dome to veg. I see people online loose no down time but thats besides the point now.

I dropped the ec to .35 and I'm using a hanna 9813-6 which i believe is one of the only .7 scale hanna products. So very low ppms. Over the last couple days the ph rose and so has the ec.

No real growth today. Maybe a tiny bit of leaf development. I did change my flood times to every three hours while lights are on so six times throughout the 18 hrs.

I also have a airstone in the reservoir keep the tank aerated and circulating.

Do you think My ec is way too low. My extra clones that i through in soil look exactly the same. I'm guessing I lacked nutes when they needed them through the cloning phase which has caused them to stunt big time. UP the EC or not. It looks like i'm at 200 ppm at .35 ec on .7 scale

PetFlora · Jul 29, 2015

I have developed a DIY F & D system that allows me to flood EVERY hour 24/7. Check it out in my signature, and see my current grow, which is a reveg

Young clones/plants love humidity, but you may not be able to control that unless you get a quality humidifier

Also, I would not go above ~ 200pm at this stage, the equivalent EC depends on which EC scale

First plant pic was taken 4/21. Current pic of same plant taken 7/26

View attachment 326918 View attachment 326919 View attachment 326920

mjlover · Jul 29, 2015

PetFlora said:
I have developed a DIY F & D system that allows me to flood EVERY hour 24/7. Check it out in my signature, and see my current grow, which is a reveg

Young clones/plants love humidity, but you may not be able to control that unless you get a quality humidifier

Also, I would not go above ~ 200pm at this stage, the equivalent EC depends on which EC scale

First plant pic was taken 4/21. Current pic of same plant taken 7/26

View attachment 326918 View attachment 326919 View attachment 326920

Thanks for info. If I hadn't already spent some good money is attempt you diy system.

Not much change today. :/ I really think I stunted these guys bad. Because usually by now I should have some leaf and growth development. What's strange to me is even using ro water on the clones I put in soil are having a hard time starting too so it's not really the system. It's all the clones that came out of the dome

gmanwho · Jul 30, 2015

to much light early can cause problems too

another thing mj lover, im not sure of your flood heights.

its kind a double edged , if your flood always reaches your rooter plug u could have issuses with stem root. later or now.

if you flood height isnt high enough your clone maynot get water in the beginning stages. you may need to be top feeding a few times a day till the roots search down.

what i would do is go near the base of the clone, an slowly start moving the hydroton out of the way as you go down. hoping you see some white roots searching out. try not to disturb them to much but thats what i would check.

alsio try to take note where the hydroton is dry to wet.. you may need to raise or lower the clones for next time.

i always help them out an top feed for about 10 days.

bsafe

mjlover · Jul 30, 2015

gmanwho said:
to much light early can cause problems too

another thing mj lover, im not sure of your flood heights.

its kind a double edged , if your flood always reaches your rooter plug u could have issuses with stem root. later or now.

if you flood height isnt high enough your clone maynot get water in the beginning stages. you may need to be top feeding a few times a day till the roots search down.

what i would do is go near the base of the clone, an slowly start moving the hydroton out of the way as you go down. hoping you see some white roots searching out. try not to disturb them to much but thats what i would check.

alsio try to take note where the hydroton is dry to wet.. you may need to raise or lower the clones for next time.

i always help them out an top feed for about 10 days.

bsafe

Yeah I was wondering about flood height. So where should the flood height be. Right under the rapid rooter? You think I'm okay at flooding 6 times ever 3hrs while lights on and no flooding during he night? Also what Ppm do you think I should be at. I'm currently at 270 and I'm starting to feel like it's too low but I'm not sure. I really wanted to have a good start to August but it's not looking good.

mjlover · Jul 30, 2015

So I just checked two plants and like I thought brown dead looking roots at least towards the top of the rooter. I didn't want to dig much deeper. i was about to say fuck it and rip one out but it didn't come out with ease so I left it alone. I think I'l take cuttings off the pineapple express and get ready to grow those. These cheese cuttings look like a lost cause. They have been in the system now for almost two weeks with not even a inch of growth and no leaf development whatsoever.

I really regret not keeping my rdwc going since it was on point i just didn't like the cost of running the chiller 24/7 and all the pumps and dehumidifier. but now i'm loosing valuable time twiddling my thumbs waiting for the clones to take off but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Man I knew there was going to be a learning curve but not like this.

What is interesting is I flushed the two clones that look the same but are in soil and the ec was in the 2.xx and 1240 ppm so I flushed them down to about .8 and i'm hoping they'll turn around.

Also the ppm went up from 270 yesterday to 278 today and ph went up from 5.5 yesterday to 5.8 so I know something is happening. But I've been hoping for ppm to drop not go up. Also the reservoir is down .5 in from yesterday so they are drinking some

I believe the flood line is right below the rapid rooter or maybe right up to it. I'll have to watch next time. I'm hoping I see some change soon or might scrap these clones... FML

LostTribe · Jul 31, 2015

mjlover said:
So I just checked two plants and like I thought brown dead looking roots at least towards the top of the rooter. I didn't want to dig much deeper. i was about to say fuck it and rip one out but it didn't come out with ease so I left it alone. I think I'l take cuttings off the pineapple express and get ready to grow those. These cheese cuttings look like a lost cause. They have been in the system now for almost two weeks with not even a inch of growth and no leaf development whatsoever.

I really regret not keeping my rdwc going since it was on point i just didn't like the cost of running the chiller 24/7 and all the pumps and dehumidifier. but now i'm loosing valuable time twiddling my thumbs waiting for the clones to take off but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Man I knew there was going to be a learning curve but not like this.

What is interesting is I flushed the two clones that look the same but are in soil and the ec was in the 2.xx and 1240 ppm so I flushed them down to about .8 and i'm hoping they'll turn around.

Also the ppm went up from 270 yesterday to 278 today and ph went up from 5.5 yesterday to 5.8 so I know something is happening. But I've been hoping for ppm to drop not go up. Also the reservoir is down .5 in from yesterday so they are drinking some

I believe the flood line is right below the rapid rooter or maybe right up to it. I'll have to watch next time. I'm hoping I see some change soon or might scrap these clones... FML

that hydroton doesnt look real wet to me. you are not using drip rings...q

how high does the flood fill up the buckets...q

i would put them on 24 n 7 water for now should see more growth. how deep are your plugs in the hydroton...q make sure they are planted deep its ok to put them deeper

watch the roots if they go brown you might have an algae problem where is the rez and what is your water temp..q

mjlover · Jul 31, 2015

LostTribe said:
that hydroton doesnt look real wet to me. you are not using drip rings...q

how high does the flood fill up the buckets...q

i would put them on 24 n 7 water for now should see more growth. how deep are your plugs in the hydroton...q make sure they are planted deep its ok to put them deeper

watch the roots if they go brown you might have an algae problem where is the rez and what is your water temp..q

The flood comes right below the plugs. When I watched it flood last night all the plugs became wet.

So what's weird is yesterday I turned on the lights when they normally are off to check things and I hand watered from the top. Accidentally left the lights on. Later that night I come home and notice some small growth in the leaves and a little bit of height so it makes me wonder if I'm either 1. Not flooding enough, 2. Not flooding at night and should be, or 3, just need to hand water and continue the floods as normal.

LostTribe · Aug 1, 2015

mjlover said:
The flood comes right below the plugs. When I watched it flood last night all the plugs became wet.

So what's weird is yesterday I turned on the lights when they normally are off to check things and I hand watered from the top. Accidentally left the lights on. Later that night I come home and notice some small growth in the leaves and a little bit of height so it makes me wonder if I'm either 1. Not flooding enough, 2. Not flooding at night and should be, or 3, just need to hand water and continue the floods as normal.

definately up the watering hydroton can be ran nearly 24-7 although in a dripper i'd suggest. with flood n drain i would increase the floodings to more often atleast 3 times per day. you really arent going to overwater with hydroton as long as they do get some air time.

i always do big buckets in pure hydroton drip....hand watering is very helpful early on. i make sure they are getting the water level high enough or even hand water filling the bucket atleast once a day through out just to make sure.

i would say go to 3-4 times minimum during lights on for whatever time it takes to totally fill the buckets.

google icmag is boring as shit for soquicks donmega grow i do this with 5 gallon buckets vertical bulbs ala krustys and drip rings.

ph should be pegged at 5.5. keep your res cold ie out of the light.

humidity 40-50% and temps at 75 during lights on.

good luck hydroton is great its totally reusable and much better than hefting around a bunch of soil and ammendments....on a timer its fool proof. :dance013:

LostTribe · Aug 1, 2015

as for your ppm its low for sure...I would assume you are running with RO water. if so then you want to watch your mix so it is as close as possible to 100-100-200-60 n-p-k-mg check out the cannastat nutrient profile calculator.

at this point I would be at 4-500ppm

mjlover · Aug 1, 2015

Right now I have the timer set to flood 6 times in the 18hrs of light on time. The ph has been moving upwards daily so that's good but the ppm does too. I'm curious about that. That's before I add back any water/solution to the reservoir. Since it's only dropped a 1 or two inches I haven't added anything back.

When I do add back do yall guys just to have strength solution or RO water with calmag.

Here's the Nutes I'm using

Part A: 4-0-0 1ml/gal
Part B: 3-2.5-6 1ml/gal
vitamin addidives 0-0.1. 1.87 ml/gal
Calmag 2.5ml/gal

Also I have hydrgouard that I used in deep water. I'm guessing it won't hurt to use that in these hydroton buckets.
Thanks

I added a pic as you can see the leaves are pointing upwards and slightly bigger

LostTribe · Aug 2, 2015

what levels are you starting with ph and ppm and what are you seeing as far as increases...q

with clones i start out with RO water

5ml cal mg +
10 ml pbp grow
2.5 ml silica blast
10 ml liquid karma
@4-500ppm

when you are adding back water to the rez it all depends on how high your levels are rising and how much water you are going to add back.

For example in bloom i start out aiming for 1200 ppm but with pbp line the ppm is not really exact. the nutrient profile is what is most important. if overnight i have lost 5 gallons out of 25 I am going to definately be adding back nutes at the ppm level necessary to get my overall ppm back to 1200.

i also drain out nutes once i have replaced 50% of the total number of gallons and start fresh this helps make sure you arent affecting your target profile of 100-100-200-60 npkmg

what nutes are you running and what gear...q

mjlover · Aug 2, 2015

LostTribe said:
what levels are you starting with ph and ppm and what are you seeing as far as increases...q

with clones i start out with RO water

5ml cal mg +
10 ml pbp grow
2.5 ml silica blast
10 ml liquid karma
@4-500ppm

when you are adding back water to the rez it all depends on how high your levels are rising and how much water you are going to add back.

For example in bloom i start out aiming for 1200 ppm but with pbp line the ppm is not really exact. the nutrient profile is what is most important. if overnight i have lost 5 gallons out of 25 I am going to definately be adding back nutes at the ppm level necessary to get my overall ppm back to 1200.

i also drain out nutes once i have replaced 50% of the total number of gallons and start fresh this helps make sure you arent affecting your target profile of 100-100-200-60 npkmg

what nutes are you running and what gear...q

I'm using Mbferts.com nutrient line right now. I put the formula in a post previously. I'm not sure how to read 100-100-200-60 but I think I get it. Thats for vegetive state?

I upped the ec to .53 which shows to be about 385 ppm. Well see how the plants respond. Still very little growth for hydro plants. by now in the rdwc once the roots hit the water things start happening daily.

I've been hearing people suggest feed every 2 hrs. That would be 9 floods in the 18hrs. I'm tempted to try it. I'm also using pretty big pumps to pump the water in and out of the reservoir. a 550 and 800 so the water doesn't stay in the buckets for long. I saw if I bought the kit from aqua they include two 250 pumps. I have two of them laying around, think I should switch to slower pumps to keep water in the buckets? I know the 250 takes around 15-20 min to empty a 50 gallon rez

I just compared my nutes to your suggested 100-100-200-60 and theres no way my compare to that. The p itself is completely low and k is twice the amount as N

LostTribe · Aug 2, 2015

mjlover said:
I'm using Mbferts.com nutrient line right now. I put the formula in a post previously. I'm not sure how to read 100-100-200-60 but I think I get it. Thats for vegetive state?

I upped the ec to .53 which shows to be about 385 ppm. Well see how the plants respond. Still very little growth for hydro plants. by now in the rdwc once the roots hit the water things start happening daily.

I've been hearing people suggest feed every 2 hrs. That would be 9 floods in the 18hrs. I'm tempted to try it. I'm also using pretty big pumps to pump the water in and out of the reservoir. a 550 and 800 so the water doesn't stay in the buckets for long. I saw if I bought the kit from aqua they include two 250 pumps. I have two of them laying around, think I should switch to slower pumps to keep water in the buckets? I know the 250 takes around 15-20 min to empty a 50 gallon rez

I just compared my nutes to your suggested 100-100-200-60 and theres no way my compare to that. The p itself is completely low and k is twice the amount as N

Lookup lucas formula that is where the 100-100-200-60 comes from mel frank has a similar formula which is close to this one too. this is for all phases of hydoponic growing veg and bloom.

so also just make sure your hydroton isnt totally drying out that is when the roots start to die. Its near impossible to overwater even at 1 flood per hour with straight hydroton. keep up with the hand watering for now until you see some real growth spurts.

mjlover · Aug 2, 2015

Okay. Sounds good. I've only been able to hand water about twice a day. I probably will up the floods and see where that takes me. I already have a nice size air pump keeping the reservoir aerated so I know the roots will have oxygen even in the water

mjlover · Aug 4, 2015

Update: 10 days in and still very little change. I'm close to scraping the plants since there is very little progress. Only a couple have grown about 1in or so with some small leaf development. others are still small. Purple stems, dark green kinda shiny leaves.

Heres a couple pics.

I keep hoping that someone has seen this before and can chime in before august is over because at this rate i'm wasting lots of time. I upped the flood time to every two hours. Ppm has now been raised to 450ish. I've seen the ph raise a good amount daily but the ppms rise as well too. today the ppm are at 467

Flood and drain bucket first timer problems

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