Economy seeds. the good, the bad and the ugly

Hey guys

Buying seeds for the first time in 10 years has left me a little sticker shocked.

Just wanted to start a thread to cover some of the economy lines from different breeders that typically get dismissed because of price and get some feedback from others who have actual experience with cheap seed stock.

To define what I consider economy lines will strictly be based on dollar amount per seed . 10$ a seed to me is not cheap but that seems to be close to the industry standard.

The ones Im looking for are the $3.00 a seed or less. Still not cheap but a little more reasonable. So any seed line in this price range would be welcome for feedback.

The goal for me is to grow out some of the economy strains and give honest feedback. Hence the good, the bad and the ugly. I will not sugar coat it. If it sucks I will call it but I will have pics to back it up.

Im hoping that some of the other cats on here will give me a hand with this. Kicking in any economy seed grows you may have.

Ive already picked a couple of breeders with economy lines that I intend to run. All of these will be regular seeds.

KC brains average price $16 a 10 pack or $1.60 per seed
Nirvana $25 - $30 a 10 pack or $2.50 to $3.00 per seed
Seedsman $20 a ten pack or $2.00 per seed.

Starting with KC

strains on hand. KC33, Mango, Brains choice, Northern lights special.

KC33.

Based on research and bad germination history I decided to drop all 10 seeds to start.

Guess what there wasn't any germination problems 10 for 10 all health and homogenous.

2 phenotypes as far as I could tell. 1 being thai dom and the other being more of a hybrid.

The bad!!! High male to female ratio. 8 males 2 females.

Both females kept and 1 of each phenotype males kept for possible breeding.

The good. Lucky I got a female of each phenotype. All of the plants were stable and healthy with strong growth patterns. Nute resistant and temp tolerant. Cloned easily. Both had a large stretch lasting until day 30 in flower. After day 30 bud production kicked in and they seem to be running within breeder specs of about 9 weeks. If they don't finish in spec to bad because mango is right behind them



















This is phenotype 1 at day 49. She shows more hybrid characteristics. Sweet lemon candy smell, dense buds, medium yield compared the Thai phenotype. Should be done within the 9 week window.




Thai phenotype. Large plant 30+ day stretch. flowered at 6" finished over 6'. Handles training well. Large buds the kind that will make a donkey green with envy. Heavy yielder will be amazing outside. Indoors can be a little difficult to control.
Smell is a chemical lemon with some dank under tones. Good tric production even if the pics don't show it. Lots of trics on the fan leaves so should make some decent water hash.

Smoke report will be after harvest in 2 weeks.

All in all a decent strain. Even with the high male to female ratio I definitely believe it was worth the $16 I paid. Would I do it again? "HELL YEA"!

.

Well that's it for now. Sorry for such a long winded post.

Hope some of you other guys out there can kick in a few cheap seed grows you have done and give us some feedback.

If there is no interest in this subject let me know and I will keep it to myself.

KC's mango is next up.

Peace
GT

for that price range I would highly recommend cannacopia... I have not grown the genetics I have from them yet, but the genetics are solid and at about 30-35 bucks a pack it cant be beat IMO

Bodhi has extremely fair prices for the quality each pack has...

Hey Brother infin how goes it?

I may do some Bodhi or other premium seed line to compare once I get a couple of these economy lines done. I have been eye balling cannacopia's gear.

The end result I hoping for is to compare price ranges verses quality.

I have these KCs and nirvanas Swiss cheese that I intend to run in the next few months.

I plan on making another order in the next few weeks. I'm allotting about $150 for the next order picking a few in the mid price range of 5 to 6 dollars a seed and maybe a couple more in the economy class. Bodhi is in there but I need to find a midrange line. most of his gear I have looked at was closer to $100 bucks but I may have been looking in the wrong place.

I think some of the economy lines are good gear that have just received a bad rap. Granted some will turn out to be complete crap and I am expecting that.

Most bad reviews come from inexperienced growers or from peps that heard from a friend who heard from a friend that is was complete crap. maybe we can separate the weed from the chaff so to speak and give some options for peps that cant afford a $100 strain.

thanks for the feedback bro.

Peace
GT

I can't recommend Nirvanas hazes, NLs, and even skunks enough (especially their older and unfortunately no longer available lines).

Peak seeds has a great reputation.

Sativa seeds is also good (and part of Nirvana).

I have a couple of great Nirvana plants in my albums.

it will be interesting to see, I know that even expensive seeds are often full of mid range to crap quality plants... depending on the exact genetics used.

I will guess that in general the more expensive (well bred) seeds have a higher quality ceiling, in that the best of expression from the premuim will be better than the best of the bargan brands.

Nirvana used to be great when the packs where only £10-£15.
I haven't tried any since the price rise. $30 is still a fair price.

What about med-man or some smaller private breeders.
Eskobar sells very cheap but great quality. Never had a bad plant from either.
Whereas the expensive stuff can leave you wanting...

^^^^ Escobar ^^^^

Another thumbs up for Esco, and the other guys that I will not mention. Hands down best "cheap seed" available.

Yeah like £15 a pack. Good as pretty much any other breeder.

KC Brains Mango was really nice when I grew it years ago. I think you might enjoy it. Remember that KC Brains breeds for outdoors so his gear has potential for making big fast growing plants. KC 36 is another good seed line.

Nirvana, papya, PPP, Bubblelicious:
All good but grown several years ago from regs seed.

Other breeders gear I've grown that's been decency include:
Flying Dutchman
Cannacopia
Joeyweed
S@nn!es
TGA (thought these were "premium" priced)
MNS (purchased directly from Shanti are low to mid priced)

For the best prices look for breeders that cut out the middle men & sell direct. (sorry bou/bay/ic)

Your show should be very interesting & fun to watch.

welcome ManyClouds feel free to post any pics you may have. I will check out peak seeds and see what they have to offer. Definitely couldn't do a thread like this with out Nirvana they have been a staple for the cheap guy like me for years.


Infin I agree you would expect the mid to higher priced seed line to be more stable with less phenotype expression and higher chance to get something that will fall within the breeder specs. When we are done maybe we can substantiate this for sure.


How goes it Mac? You are spot on about the expensive lines sometime leaving you wanting. Had that happen with a high end breeder several years ago. Kinda leaves you feeling cheated when you plop down over a $100 on a strain and it turns out butt load crap.
It doesn't hurt so bad when its $20 bucks.

I haven't looked at Medman or Eskobar so they will go on the list for sure. I prefer to support smaller breeders that focus on the medi user or closet grower more so than the cash cropper.

Welcome Bob with 2 votes for eskobar they have moved in the lime light for me. I guess I just flat out missed them.

Cant agree with you more MJP about KC. I bought most of these to run outside this summer. The KC33 would be amazing outside under the big light clones of the Thai phenotype will be going outsider in the next week or so. I was just surprised how well they have done inside. The biggest problem is managing the stretch as with any Sat dom strain.

Here is a clone started straight from rooting to 12/12 in an attempt to control stretch. She went in at 3" rooted clone and is now pushing 36" at day 21 in flower. This particular 33 phenotype surprisingly does very well under lights. Even the lower bud sites have solid nugs in lower light conditions with very little leaf. If the buzz comes across good then I believe most would consider it a keeper just remains to be seen.





the Thai pheno would make an exceptional SCROG candidate producing high yields while controlling the canopy.

Typically I run my plants the first time in a natural Christmas tree style to get a feel for what they will do. Hind site if I would have known I was only going to get 2 females I would have run them scrog style




she almost go out of control taking over the room. This was shortly after finishing stretch.



This is a side branch around day 49. She has bulked up considerably. There are close to 20 branches each looking the same. producing 18 to 20 inch donkey dicks. They look a little foxy but are actually fairly solid. She has packing on enough weight now that some of the limbs require support. Outside given 30 days of veg under the sun this phenotype would be huge. If it ran from mid April thru October which is the growing season here there would be no way to hide it. She would easy reach 10ft tall and as equally big around. I could see her easy making 2 to 3 LBS. Hopefully we will see.


I will post a few pics of the mango this evening in seedling stage. They are growing but in this early stage have shown less vigor than the 33 and a couple of the seedlings seem to be producing mutant characteristics. The Parent stock for this strain has got to be pushing 30 years so it only makes sense that they have lost some vitality.

I would like to apologize for the poor pics. I have no claim to be a great photographer like Infin. the only excuse I can offer is that they are way to big to move out from under the HPS lights so they all come out kinda orange. Maybe one day I will invest in a better camera. I will also work on my posting skills. Im sure there is a better way to manage attachments I juts haven't figured it out.


Thanks to everyone for your feedback and input. Hopefully together we can make this a worthwhile read.

Peace
GT

mack 10 said:

Yeah like £15 a pack. Good as pretty much any other breeder.

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For real, I run a bunch from them ...I been buying from there since I started (Cheeseberry Haze was in my first ever grow) and I thnk theyre as good as anyone I've tried.. I've tried a few...

Only drawback for eskobar is paying for them. Bank transfer or cash payments only. I guess I have to get up to speed on bank transfer, not to cool on the cash route.

Sucks paypal wont support canna trade, would make life much simpler.

CC payments go through another site which jacks the price by 10$ a pack, that sucks.

Wouldn't mind running herijuana again. ran Mota's about 10 years ago pretty dank shit. I would pony up for those just to compare to the old mota gear. $3.50 a bean is pretty close to economy line.

Peace

GT

I've done well with Mandala's Rishi Kush, Satori & Fruitylicious. The Rishi has more punch than they claim. It & the Fruitylicious have that deep overripe fruit aroma at the bottom end. Satori throws some phenos, some better than others. Faint sweet aroma, almost not pot-like at all. Icy clarity, not much warmth or sociability to it.

My fave so far is Sativa seed's Royal Flush. Very sweet spicy aroma- lavender & rosemary almost peppery at the high end with a nice clear daydream high. Creeps a bit, in waves, if you really get to puffing on it. Way more high than stoned. Of the 4 I grew, the short & tall phenos smoked the same.

Yumbolt is more mid priced- totally unique w/ old school piney flavor & aroma, quite stony. Little variation. Well worth growing.

I have ISP's cantaloupe skunk flowering now. !00% germination, 8 of 10 are female. Low odor so far, as advertised, robust & bushy. We'll see how it smokes.

I have other low/mid priced genetics in waiting- Santa Maria, Queen Mother, Eldorado, Chem D BX3. Too bad I can't grow 'em as fast as I can buy 'em. I want Esko's Oaxaca, haven't figured out what else to order with it.

... another pack of Oaxacan?... lol or at least, thats what I went with

I like the look of those original delicatessen releases too...

M.R.GT said:

Only drawback for eskobar is paying for them. Bank transfer or cash payments only. I guess I have to get up to speed on bank transfer, not to cool on the cash route.

Sucks paypal wont support canna trade, would make life much simpler.

CC payments go through another site which jacks the price by 10$ a pack, that sucks.

Wouldn't mind running herijuana again. ran Mota's about 10 years ago pretty dank shit. I would pony up for those just to compare to the old mota gear. $3.50 a bean is pretty close to economy line.

Peace

GT

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I really haven't had problems using cash, but I'm picky about seedbanks, too. Hemp Depot, Growshop Alien & the 'Bou have all come through for me. I keep orders under $200 to limit losses, too.

I figure anything under $50 is low price, Under $80 mid range & then the rest as high priced above that. From all reports, Ace & Cannabiogen gear is worth the slight price premium. dunno for sure.

The first ever pack of seeds I bought to grow 'properly' indoors,rather than throw in a field and hope for the best,were nirvana's B52.
It was amazing,and not just because it was my first homegrown.I bought another pack a year or two later and got a fantastic female which I still miss to this day.It smelt like cream/dairy/cheese.This was around the time big Buddha first brought his cheese seeds to market and I was absolutely sure that it would smell and taste like the B52 when I got around to growing it.I also grew KCs Bahia blackhead which was amazing,super dense and ridiculously crystal covered,it had me believing that white widow definitely had Brazilian in it.I went on to grow white Russian (serious) and white satin (mandala) which both had very similar flavours (the white flavour).
There are definitely good plants to be found in the cheaper seeds.The only thing which separates the likes of GHSC and KC brains is that KC does a yearly grow outdoor for seeds and spends no money whatsoever on advertising,and hasn't even had a catalogue for around 10 years plus,and sells seeds in white printed envelopes with baggies inside.GHSC spends a ton on their packaging and glossy double page spread adverts in weedworld and hightimes etc.,spends a shitton on strainhunters landrovers and lavish holidays under the guise of making a film or 'helping farmers with feminised seeds' etc.etc.etc.
I know who I would rather support,and I know whose gear has given me better plants and end product (it's not arjan).

JamieShoes said:

... another pack of Oaxacan?... lol or at least, thats what I went with

I like the look of those original delicatessen releases too...

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I meant more than 2 packs of the Oaxacan, putting the order up ~$100 or so.

I added Jalisco Jaze & Nepalma, 20% discount for cash- $85 incl shipping.

Peak Blueberry and Northern Berry was my first "store bought seeds". Would recommend for sure. Nirvana Papaya, Master Kush, Afghan, Bubblicious and Jock Horror were all great, especially the Papaya and the Jock. That Jock was the first weed in many years that got me so high I was paranoid. The Papaya was just as advertised, a sticky, greasy, tasty Indica. Might have to get that one again, if I ever decide to actually purchase seeds again.

Don't buy seeds anymore, just make my own.

M.R.GT said:

Only drawback for eskobar is paying for them. Bank transfer or cash payments only. I guess I have to get up to speed on bank transfer, not to cool on the cash route.

Sucks paypal wont support canna trade, would make life much simpler.

CC payments go through another site which jacks the price by 10$ a pack, that sucks.

Wouldn't mind running herijuana again. ran Mota's about 10 years ago pretty dank shit. I would pony up for those just to compare to the old mota gear. $3.50 a bean is pretty close to economy line.

Peace

GT

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Yes , what people need to know is that there are many hard-core scumbag criminals that are abusing the consumer protections that credit cards have. Several legitimate businesses I know of do not take credit card payments anymore due to slimy thieves that say they did not receive or did not authorize the use of the card.
I cannot blame any seed vendor for not taking credit cards - I sure as hell would not accept them if I were them- much of humanity are scumbag thieves. Example would be on products that would appear to have little chance of thievery, a friend has had so many chargebacks on Amazon that she will not take credit cards- you all would be surprised at the scumbag frequency.

Jhhnn said:

I meant more than 2 packs of the Oaxacan, putting the order up ~$100 or so.

I added Jalisco Jaze & Nepalma, 20% discount for cash- $85 incl shipping.

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nice the Jalisco and the Jaze caught my eye too... hope you let us know how they go