Breeding Ethics

Donald Mallard · Feb 15, 2013

lost in a sea said:
problem is most consumers out there dont know shit about breeding or cannabis gene pools so how can they demand what they have never experienced

gotta agree there ...

@ morph ,, yes i do hold the consumer responsible to a certain extent ,
for the very reasons i stated initially ,
not sure if you recall our friend rezdog and his followers,
"just give us the seeds , we dont care if they are tested or not"
was said by many,
i even asked about one potential release to see if it had been tested ,,
"dont need to test them" i was told ...

, if the consumer dont care what the hell they get,
whether its tested or not,
then they are definitely part of the problem no ?

Morphote · Feb 15, 2013

The problem isn't the consumer. The problem is that the consumer trusts the breeder in their work and selections, when the truth is that many of them don't do any work and there is no selection process. Then the breeder turns around and charges an arm and a leg for work they never did. And you still think this is the consumer's fault? With that attitude and with the way things are going, it will come as no surprise to me when all the so called breeders are out of business and people are breeding their own plants. Consumers are waking up to the reality of the situation and sooner or later it won't matter who's fault you think it is that many breeders in fact have very little to no ethics.

M.

Docteur · Feb 15, 2013

ask the Pacha Mama !!

floralheart · Jul 20, 2013

oceangrownkush said:
So.. This subject seems to come up a lot, less so here on ICm in particular, but a lot none the less.. My question for you breeders and pollen chucks is this; at what point does a line stop being someone else's work and start being your own material that you may do with what you wish without consent of the breeders before you?

There are some obvious ones.. Like making F2's of a breeder pack, slapping a new label on it and trying to sell it. That one is the clear black and white example of poor ethics in breeding. But what about making an F1 with another breeders work? Does a single outcrossing make that line 100% your own creation that you may trade with as you wish?

There are some breeders doing the absolute best they can with what they are given and others are more obvious examples of opportunists chucking pollen for dollars, jacking others genes and misrepresenting lines..

How does an ethical breeder behave? What are the obligations of a breeder to his predecessors?

Some questions I'd love to see answered, and trying to answer them myself only makes them seem more and more grey area and less cut and dry... Obviously a touchy subject for a lot of breeders out there!

Would love to see some discord on this to better understand the answers myself.

The minute I pop the first bean and pollinate it.

I paid for something, rather than finding it in nature. I took a chance, grew it, found something I liked, crossed it with something else I liked, grew that, found something I liked, etc.

The minute you work on it; it's your work.

Does that make you a God that discovered OG Kush just because you crossed it? Not really.

But whatever comes out of whatever you cross, is your work.

It'd be pretty bold to claim it commercially if someone else put 5 years and 500 plants to it, but as far as you and God are concerned it's yours.

floralheart · Jul 20, 2013

Space Case said:
I'd say F1 hybrids using another breeder's stock isn't even breeding, and would qualify in my book as unethical. Making F2s or F3s and then searching for a proper male and then outcrossing it would be more ethical, but takes more work. Most F1 hybrids shouldn't be considered real breeding anyway, because more work should be put into them. One-offs can be fun, but no one puts work into it like that. I say, going through another breeder's work via multiple generations constitutes that you are reworking something for yourself.

It's breeding when you start growing a bunch of them, and picking the ones you like.

And then crossing those with others you like. Then you're breeding.

oceangrownkush · Jul 21, 2013

I like that floralheart, 5 years and 500 plants. This got me thinking for a minute, why don't breeders offer exactly their selection steps and from how large of pools these selections were drawn? And how long the selected individuals were observed? I think these are factors that are far too often unreported, too many breeders who generate the seed and write the descriptions how they expect them to come out.... If you haven't observed an individual for a good while how can you know how stable it is? To say extreme caution is needed when selecting breeders to grow from is an understatement.

floralheart · Jul 21, 2013

oceangrownkush said:
I like that floralheart, 5 years and 500 plants. This got me thinking for a minute, why don't breeders offer exactly their selection steps and from how large of pools these selections were drawn? And how long the selected individuals were observed? I think these are factors that are far too often unreported, too many breeders who generate the seed and write the descriptions how they expect them to come out.... If you haven't observed an individual for a good while how can you know how stable it is? To say extreme caution is needed when selecting breeders to grow from is an understatement.

Just for prohibitions sake, i'd imagine. Nobody wants to document a crime and take credit for it. Or to draw attention to their self. Cannabis is somewhere where you don't want to be a celebrity. Kudos to those who do, I appreciate your work and risk.

frito bandito · Jul 21, 2013

Nah...it's just sloppiness, and don't-give-a-shit factor. The black market doesn't exactly attract the brightest and best. Well actually, it does in a way. But those types usually aren't the Luther Burbank sort. The Luther Burbanks of the world generally like to have huge plantations where they can grow anything they damn well please without government approval.

floralheart · Jul 22, 2013

quoting this because it rocks, and posting another philosophy, lol

slausongardens said:
mota is a real ethical breeder i noticed, i follow his lead when it comes to ethics.

i think it is ok to release f2s if the f1s are no longer available for sale. but if they are available for sale you are kind of fuckin with the original breeders money.. which is not cool. but if you do release an f2 always put the f2 on it to let everyone know its not the exact same as the original.

now if a breeder changes the mother or father of a seed line, even if its the same strain but different pheno they should definitely let the consumers know and call it version 2 or something. because obviously it wont be the same as the original.

now i think anyone should be allowed to make a new hybrid with any strain, no breeder should be allowed to tell the buyers they cant use it to make new crosses. i mean making an f2 and selling it is one thing but crossing it to a completelyt different strain and making a whole new variety is different and ok, youre making something completely new and thats how all seeds are made, from using someone elses work.

now if you dont sell the beans and just make em for yourself or give out you can do anything you fuckin pleae. make f2s whatever.. no breeder should have a problem with that.

i personally think that there should never be any restrictions on any strains, thats how this game works, we make new stuff and people make new stuff from that stuff and so on, we all use each others work and thats how it works.

now taking someones strain, f2ing it and putting a new name on it without giving any credit is very unethical..

i also believe you should always give credit, in the info you should always tell people where the mother and father came from.

and if a line is no longer available i think its cool to f2, ibl, make hybrids, do anything with it cuz youre helping the people get something thats not available anymore, i cant hate on that just be honest with how you did it and where it came from..

i think thats the basics. imo you can do whatever you want with beans you buy but it is ethical to always give credit.

so give credit, thats it peoples.

have a good day.

I'm growing subcool's agent orange crossed with topdawg, a barney's farm kush. My rule of thumb for the father is, the stalk terpenes must surpass the mother's, which was this weird & pungent alien kush fuel odor that leaned alien baby shit. Stop feeding that baby curry, she'll shit. Her sister was a very vanilla fruit punch kush, nothing like her.

I need a smell that odd or better in the males terpenes, or female terpenes, however with the female it will come down more to the smoke and overall appeal in growth & smoke.

I didn't plan it, I just did what felt right using what I had.

I want to add the alien shit smell to the flavor and 50/50 balance it with super sour orange. I want that funk off the topdawg pure indica frame, and onto the agent orange 50/50 indica/sativa branch structure, one of subcool's biggest yeilder. It's somewhere in those F2's, to be created.

Pick a direction, hunt through seeds to find it.

I'll do this until I get bored or get distracted with something better to obsess over. Any kind of conscious thought like that, to me, makes it your own.

symbiote420 · Jul 23, 2013

I made some Agent Orange f2s with a Space Queen leaner and a super orange tasting JTR leaner! The male I used had sticky stalks and trichs covering the stems & sacs ....he had the trippy reverse leaf blade growing out the petioles that push out of the most potent JTR phenos in his gear! My bud grew some out and during veg the smell from them overpowered the Lemon Skunk and Strawberry D-lites he had blooming!!

Matt8800 · May 14, 2015

Any breeder that is not breeding exclusively with landraces are using someone else's genetics.

WildstarGuy · May 14, 2015

Matt8800 said:
Any breeder that is not breeding exclusively with landraces are using someone else's genetics.

Those landraces were developed by the farmers farming the variety in a specific environment, so you're using some else's genetics when you use a landrace.

soserthc1 · Sep 16, 2015

Matt8800 said:
Any breeder that is not breeding exclusively with landraces are using someone else's genetics.

The previous post was 2 years old. Land race is covered on pages 2,3,5,7,9 the other pages are about Sam getting skunk 1 jacked
But I was at work and you bumped it so I read it...
These threads are hilarious

oceangrownkush · Sep 17, 2015

These threads? I fail to see what's so hilarious about dilligently understanding and respecting the work that came before your own. Its almost three years ago this discussion happened and I feel the same way about the subject, kept to my word and didn't whore out the Tres Dawg. If you don't believe in having honor and chivalry when it comes to something farmers before you have poured their heart into then you aren't the type I prefer to associate with. Untrustworthy.

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Breeding Ethics

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