Mr. Nice's Black Widow Seeds
- Thread starter Treetops
- Start date
growhi
Member
i think what people need to realise is growing 3 seeds out isnt a good going to show you what a seed line is all about , dont get me wrong you may get lucky but you need 20 30 seeds even ................. 10 to 15 nice females to select from should get you a nice example !
i think people need to readjust there exceptions when it comes to seeds
i think people need to readjust there exceptions when it comes to seeds
linkakajp
Active member
hi all
really too much "herma" for me !!!
on 18 female , only 2 true femal at the end of the first grow , for the second run , one of the two show some hermies side , so only 1 tru female on 18 !!!
but the plant are really good for me , some one are really strong
this one are one of the most beautifull
really too much "herma" for me !!!
on 18 female , only 2 true femal at the end of the first grow , for the second run , one of the two show some hermies side , so only 1 tru female on 18 !!!
but the plant are really good for me , some one are really strong
this one are one of the most beautifull
Smurfette4:21
Member
Curious as we have BW in our garden. The selection was already done. Hopefully she is a keeper. Nice pics tho. Ours is a fast rooter and aggressive vegger.
B
Buck Cannon
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B
Buck Cannon
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Totally disagree.
When you pay $160 for a packet of seeds you expect them to have been bred, not so that every single seed is a keeper, in that respect you would be right to say that, but so that at least more than one in twenty seeds is of a very high standard and of a similar makeup to what you would be expecting when you bought the seeds. There are enough sellers out there whose product guarantees you at least some good smoke at the end of a full seed run, and that in my opinion is the least you deserve when you spend not only your money but your time growing them out.
Out of 18 super silver haze seeds I got nothing which even barely resembled silver haze. In fact it's rude to even mention silver haze in the same breath. It should have it's name changed because it is the single worst strain I've run since I started growing.
I used to advise people to try more Mr. Nice stuff because it's something I didn't see enough of, especially given that they have a good reputation, but I'm now thinking that reputation is based on romanticism and some sort of skewed morality based on reg vs fem seeds etc, because for 12 girls to come out as pathetically as this is more than just bad luck.
i have grown and i know a few people that have grown MNS genetics...they are killer...BUT you MUST be aware...most of Shantibaba's strains are pheno hunts...
He even tells you that in his descriptions...He tells you to grow as many plants out as you can and find your "keeper"
So i understand you want exact replica's of what you see in High Times or on here...but if you are growing from seed....YOU are in for a pheno search...and that's the fun of it...
I know I love choosing strains that I like...not ones that everyone WANTS...like Kush..
So if you grow from seed you have to expect some variation....therefore a fun PHENO search
peace
Chefboy
He even tells you that in his descriptions...He tells you to grow as many plants out as you can and find your "keeper"
So i understand you want exact replica's of what you see in High Times or on here...but if you are growing from seed....YOU are in for a pheno search...and that's the fun of it...
I know I love choosing strains that I like...not ones that everyone WANTS...like Kush..
So if you grow from seed you have to expect some variation....therefore a fun PHENO search
peace
Chefboy
I couldn't disagree more .... on pretty much every count.
It's nice to imagine a "keeper in every pack", but it's pretty much BS. I've tested the assumption dozens of times over and over agin and it just ain't true.
And the OP is 100% right .... 3 seeds (which is what he actually said) is in no way a sufficient sample of any strain.
Finally, I popped 18 SSH from MNS and got 4 to 5 keepers and I still run one pheno in a perpetual garden to this day... it's a trippy, strong sativa leaning high with a unique fuely taste that's totally distinctive ... not to mention being a fast cloner, fast veg'er and good yielder with frosty bag appeal.
My experience with SSH has been bitter sweet. My first pack I got in 2008 only 2 seeds germinated, oddly enough these 2 were the best I have found to date. I got a replacement pack shortly there after and have been growing a few each year since then. What I have gotten has been quite a few males, 1 really sensitive female that ended up getting chopped early and thrown away because I just couldn't make it happy, almost every single plant has represented a different phenotype, the only pheno I have had pop up more than once was a 20 week flowering pheno that grows wispy buds like a pure haze. This pheno was pretty good but it's flowering time and stretch made it not worth keeping. I've had 4 females that have been 20 weekers, and the most messed up thing is; is it's supposed to be an 11-14 flowering time strain.
Im not complaining really as I know there is hidden gems in there but for $160 a pack I shouldn't be getting 20 week pheno's unless that's what Im expecting. If I wanted that I would just grow a pure haze or the original haze x skunk seeds I got for freebies. The OH x Sk1 freebies were actually better then the long pheno's of SSH.
Another thing about SSH that's weird is with other strains leaf shape is a decent indicator of which pheno's will be the longest flowering time, but with SSH sometimes even the thinnest leaf plants can finish fast and a pheno with wider leaves can go for 5 months. You really have to get them into flower to see how they'll go. It's not really a strain I can grow too many of at a time because some of them blow up in flower and take over the entire space if you over veg.
I know this is an MNS flagship strain but they should drop the price a little bit, $100 not so bad, $160 and it better perform be have a reasonable flowering time or be somewhat predictable.
I have a male and 2 females Im going to use to make F2's maybe I'll have better luck with them as nothing out of the original pack has been worth keeping.
Im not complaining really as I know there is hidden gems in there but for $160 a pack I shouldn't be getting 20 week pheno's unless that's what Im expecting. If I wanted that I would just grow a pure haze or the original haze x skunk seeds I got for freebies. The OH x Sk1 freebies were actually better then the long pheno's of SSH.
Another thing about SSH that's weird is with other strains leaf shape is a decent indicator of which pheno's will be the longest flowering time, but with SSH sometimes even the thinnest leaf plants can finish fast and a pheno with wider leaves can go for 5 months. You really have to get them into flower to see how they'll go. It's not really a strain I can grow too many of at a time because some of them blow up in flower and take over the entire space if you over veg.
I know this is an MNS flagship strain but they should drop the price a little bit, $100 not so bad, $160 and it better perform be have a reasonable flowering time or be somewhat predictable.
I have a male and 2 females Im going to use to make F2's maybe I'll have better luck with them as nothing out of the original pack has been worth keeping.
The problem with MNS is their high prices IMO. More than almost any breeder, there is a TON of pheno hunting. That sort of equates to instabilty. Lots of variation. I've heard that if you don't get THE good pheno, you are probably going to get something subpar. Whereas other breeders may have many phenos and they are all very very good (with one or two being better.) That's fine and dandy but then don't charge double the price of other top breeders when the chances of finding a keeper are much smaller.
You couldn't disagree more that when you spend 160 dollars on a pack of 18 seeds, you should expect at least one plant of a high standard?
Then what are you expectations of the breeder?
320 dollars sound fair? Maybe maybe 480 dollars and 54 plants and I might find something which barely resembles silver haze?
I don't expect a keeper in every pack of seeds I pop, but when I bought SSH I was hoping for something to at least resemble the spicy goodness of the the old sensi silver haze, at least in some way. Maybe not exactly like it, not platinum keeper grade, but at least share some similarities. Is that too much for me to expect for 100 quid?
It's no good simply signing a disclaimer saying the customer is in for a pheno hunt. A pheno hunt I don't mind at all. A pheno hunt I'm cool with. I mean what do you think I spend the rest of my time doing? Growing only strains which guarantee all keepers?
But theres a huge difference between sifting through some some average, some nice, and some really nice plants, and occasionally finding a certified keeper, and sifting through a pile of hay and getting nothing.
I wouldn't slate a strain like that, I've got no agenda and up til I grew my SSH out I would have guided anyone towards Mr.Nice, based only on what I had heard. But when every female from an 18 pack comes out as bland and lifeless as mine have, it suggests a lack of thorough work and I feel like I shouldn't pay top end if the breeding practices don't justify me doing so.
It might be impossible to lock down desirable traits so that every pack contains multiple keepers, or maybe some breeders would prefer for their strains to show variation, that's not always a bad thing and sometimes a great one, but when the vast majority are really bland, and I'm talking less than mediocre, then you must do something to re-work that strain, or lower the price, or at the very least warn people rather than to expect a pheno hunt, to expect a large majority of plants to lean largely towards dutch indica and only a select few, maybe less than 1 female per 20, to exhibit traits of the original silver haze; something which a lot of customer would have bought this strain to find.
Every point you make would be justified and every point I make would be unfair if the breeder was asking for £20 a pack. No problem. But you spend the extra cash because you believe the breeder to have worked this strain better than anyone else out there.
What I'll say based on my experience is simple.
You hear all the time when you ask about silver haze ... "shanti has the original etc etc....if you want the real silver haze, get it from him"
Well, in my experience, I can now say to anyone who's looking for a nice SH that you're at least as likely to find that in some other version, and save yourself a few quid in the process.
That's fair enough I think.
Agree with every bit, even the pheno descriptions. That's been my experience to a T. The thinner leaved, slightly musky smelling, fast finishing... that's what I got, every one of them.
The biggest disappointment is in the name, because anyone who's smoked the sensi silver haze from way back knows it's a thing of beauty.
Dude ... you have no idea, other than the SSH I mentioned, of what I buy or what I grow, so you may want to hold off building straw men to talk to.
I don't have a price to keeper formula for you ...and I don't necessarily defend any seed company. But the reality is that for every grower you see on IC Mag squealling like a girl about what a great plant they got, there are a dozen who did not get that plant or anything like it. That's true regardless of how much you pay or what your expectations are. (And by the way, as many as half of the "oh wow look at this pheno" posters are shills for the breeder anyway ... that is how it's done.).
Good luck finding what you seek,
rabbit
I'm not sure how your post is relevant to what I said. What you grow hasn't entered into this dialogue, or my thinking, once. I think you took my first post out of context and I still do.
It's my opinion that a strain like super silver haze, or any strain which carries a name that generates a specific expectation in the buyer, should supply the buyer with plants which display at least some of those characteristics with some degree of regularity. Especially if the seller is going the highest price on the market for their version of that strain. That's the whole point of breeding for god's sake... I mean call it something else if not. Would you accept a whole growing season dedicated to cherry tomatoes which turned out to be beefsteak?
I didn't say I wanted a keeper in every pack. I'm not disappointed because I didn't find a keeper... I'm disappointed because I have a garden of some of the most bland tasteless cannabis I have grown. If I had paid £20 for these seeds I would still be disappointed, they are really that bad. I did not expect this at all.
I've grown many many plants. I'm not new to this and I know what my expectations are when I enter a grow and I know what is good and also what is substandard based on everything I have done in the past. When I pop a packet of seeds I don't do it with a vision of the holy grail, or a perfect example of the breeder's description in mind.
I grew some Bodhi goji og and didn't find a keeper. I didn't find that pheno.
But I enjoyed the smoke, they were nice plants aesthetically, and all of them were of a really good standard. Nothing that made me go wow, keep this forever, but I wouldn't complain. I enjoyed them. I could say that about lots of stuff I've grown.
When I say every one of my super silver haze was shit mate, it's not because they didn't live up to that exact taste, or anything to do with the breeder description, it's because they were bland as shite. They were the most disappointing strain I have grown out to this day and I've had so many.
That's my personal experience and I think it's the whole point of forums like this that I share that. People can take from it what they want and use their own judgment in making a decision. I've got to be clear and maybe a bit blunt in what I'm saying because £100 and 3 months of growing is a decent investment. It's only right that all experiences are shared honestly. You found good seeds in your packet. I found not even a single half decent female.
No hard feelings mate. I'm glad you got something nice from your packet. But I can only base my opinion on my experience and unfortunately it's been a real stinker.
Take care.
It's my opinion that a strain like super silver haze, or any strain which carries a name that generates a specific expectation in the buyer, should supply the buyer with plants which display at least some of those characteristics with some degree of regularity. Especially if the seller is going the highest price on the market for their version of that strain. That's the whole point of breeding for god's sake... I mean call it something else if not. Would you accept a whole growing season dedicated to cherry tomatoes which turned out to be beefsteak?
I didn't say I wanted a keeper in every pack. I'm not disappointed because I didn't find a keeper... I'm disappointed because I have a garden of some of the most bland tasteless cannabis I have grown. If I had paid £20 for these seeds I would still be disappointed, they are really that bad. I did not expect this at all.
I've grown many many plants. I'm not new to this and I know what my expectations are when I enter a grow and I know what is good and also what is substandard based on everything I have done in the past. When I pop a packet of seeds I don't do it with a vision of the holy grail, or a perfect example of the breeder's description in mind.
I grew some Bodhi goji og and didn't find a keeper. I didn't find that pheno.
But I enjoyed the smoke, they were nice plants aesthetically, and all of them were of a really good standard. Nothing that made me go wow, keep this forever, but I wouldn't complain. I enjoyed them. I could say that about lots of stuff I've grown.
When I say every one of my super silver haze was shit mate, it's not because they didn't live up to that exact taste, or anything to do with the breeder description, it's because they were bland as shite. They were the most disappointing strain I have grown out to this day and I've had so many.
That's my personal experience and I think it's the whole point of forums like this that I share that. People can take from it what they want and use their own judgment in making a decision. I've got to be clear and maybe a bit blunt in what I'm saying because £100 and 3 months of growing is a decent investment. It's only right that all experiences are shared honestly. You found good seeds in your packet. I found not even a single half decent female.
No hard feelings mate. I'm glad you got something nice from your packet. But I can only base my opinion on my experience and unfortunately it's been a real stinker.
Take care.
K
komodod
im glad you are posting about your experience papa. there seems to be a ridiculous fan boy craze going on atm and If anyone has an issue the are scrutinized as being the one at fault.
people start to get stuck up there own ass and forget that this is a very easy plant to grow.
eitherway, many of the dutch breeders are going or have gone down the pan. they have either lost old stock or simply dont do their own breeding and outsource seeds etc.
a lot of them are hit or miss these days.
I think yes if you want a special example of a strain, perhaps 20 females plus is good if you can do that. but in the least you should find some good examples of a strain in a ten pack. theres plenty of breeders I can think of straight away who sell ten packs and from each pack I could keep most if not all the females I found. but without people posting these experiences its hard to make those initial decisions on who to give your cash to. so thanks for your experience
people start to get stuck up there own ass and forget that this is a very easy plant to grow.
eitherway, many of the dutch breeders are going or have gone down the pan. they have either lost old stock or simply dont do their own breeding and outsource seeds etc.
a lot of them are hit or miss these days.
I think yes if you want a special example of a strain, perhaps 20 females plus is good if you can do that. but in the least you should find some good examples of a strain in a ten pack. theres plenty of breeders I can think of straight away who sell ten packs and from each pack I could keep most if not all the females I found. but without people posting these experiences its hard to make those initial decisions on who to give your cash to. so thanks for your experience
Don't know what his seeds are like these days but i have a cut of ssh that came from 2000 seed stock. i'll give anyone the pepsi challenge on this cut, it makes sour diesel, train wreck etc look pale in comparison. even when the market is saturated it always sells for top dollar
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