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Old 01-04-2011, 05:34 AM   #61
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Thanks again for the usefull, practical, and intelligent answers. And the DMSO reminder. I'll treat it with respect. Not for novices. Originally i was a dbl, chemie/physics major, the nuclear variety and flipped for English Lit. (a long interesting story actually involving a teacher who flew over first after we dropped the bomb to photograph the effects and report to Truman. Yikes! Needless to say, he flipped from science to Enlish Literature to as a teacher).
Thanks again!
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:58 PM   #62
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What do you guys think about Cytokinin as a secondary budding enhancer?
I know its being used to pump up flowering and that it prevents aging or something.

Also, I got some House And Garden Shooting Powder. Besides P and K sulfates do you think they put cytokinin in there as well?

And do you think I should use my seaweed extract (FPE I made from seaweed) in advanced flowering to help with some PGRs or something?
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:00 AM   #63
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Which PGR's can be found from organic sources? These sound very interesting...good info!
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:41 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
Which PGR's can be found from organic sources? These sound very interesting...good info!
alfalfa, cilantro & im sure thers many more give u triacontoanol
willow bark has Salicylic acid
kelp has auxins, gibberellins, and cytokinins
thats all my stoney baloney mind can think of at the mo
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:34 AM   #65
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Thanks DM!
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:06 AM   #66
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@ all,

I have been pretty much off-line for the past few weeks and really busy in life, I have slacked off on posting but I will get 'back on the horse' starting tomorrow. I will respond to all Qs of me in this thread, and other threads, and PMs too. I still have a bunch of studies of post in this thread, especially on my (nearly) favorite PGR: brassinosteroid.

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Old 01-12-2011, 04:54 PM   #67
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So what are you using to control stretch, spurr? Is the GA3 in my fridge of any use besides femmming? I'm interested in PGRs for controlling stretch and inducing earlier flowers. Thanks.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryanne3087 View Post
spurr,

Do you think CNS15 has too low of Mg?
I am not sure, I have only seen CNS17 at 15 ml posted by a buddy of mine. What is the Mg ppm of CNS15 at the application concentration you are interested in?
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:06 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMan&theWeed View Post
Spurr,

I’ve been looking for a practical source for jasmonic acid for years. Thanks for providing this valuable information about Jaz Rose Spray.
No problem, but you should thank Oswizzle because he is the one who told me about Jaz.

Quote:
Perhaps other similar jasmonic based products may be available from the local grow shop, but at inflated prices (Ooze Bloom?) maybe it’s a waste of money. I’m not sure, since the non-plant food ingredients are never listed.
Never seen "Ooze Bloom", do you have a link to website? I find that grow stores do not strive to sell scientifically proven products, sadly, they tend to sell products with the best marketing and hype.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:10 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzee View Post
What do you guys think about Cytokinin as a secondary budding enhancer?
I like cytokinins for all stages of growth, supplied via high quality kelp extract or kelp powder. There are many varous cytokinins analogs available, but I like using good kelp extract as foliar and root drench.

Quote:
Also, I got some House And Garden Shooting Powder. Besides P and K sulfates do you think they put cytokinin in there as well?
No idea. I think companies should be forced by law to list all ingredients, it's shady of them not to, which is why I refuse to use Dutch Master products (besides many of them are a shame, like Penetrator, aka Saturator).


Quote:
And do you think I should use my seaweed extract (FPE I made from seaweed) in advanced flowering to help with some PGRs or something?
Sure, as long as you have tested it and it's not phytotoxic, FPEs are great if they are properly made.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:21 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Meds View Post
So what are you using to control stretch, spurr? Is the GA3 in my fridge of any use besides femmming? I'm interested in PGRs for controlling stretch and inducing earlier flowers. Thanks.
You would not want to use GA3 to control stretch, it does the complete opposite. GA3 could be useful with co-application of jasmonic acid to increase trich density; but using GA3, without inducing stretching, is not simple. I have over applied GA3, i.e., had too much stretch, each time I have used it...

To control stretch I control DIF, with at least zero DIF during pre-flowering, as well as only providing suffeicnt levels of P. Providing too much P (e.g., > 60 ppm-80), especially during pre-flowering, will make plants strech more and increase internodal elongation. Increasing red:far-red ratio intracanopy during pre-flowering is also a useful and practical method to reduce stretch. I do not use Plant Growth Retardants, i.e., the other type of PGRs.

What do you mean by "induce early flowering"? Do you mean shorter time to harvest (e.g., 8 weeks of flowering instead of 10)?
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:34 PM   #72
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Brassinosteroid:

This is a plant steroid, it boosts yield, growth, rate of photosynthesis, phototropism, stress resistance (abiotic and biotic), root induction and growth, etc.

Brassinosteroids (BRs) are probably my favorite PGR, along with tricontanol. Both can cause plants to strech if over applied...

There is a natural brassinosteroid called "brassinolide" (BL), it's probably the 'strongest' form of BR verses BR analogs like 24‐epibrassinolide (EBR). The main reason BR analogs are a good choice is they last a long time (length of bioavailability) in water. Whereas brassinoloide only lasts ~3-10 days in water until it's unavailable (it breaks down). That isn't much of an issue for us, because we apply it as a foliar spray, however, I plan to analytically test BL and EBR to see if there is a worthwhile difference in affects on plants this year.

From my non-analytical trails thus far, I see no difference between the various types of BRs.

Here are some possible benefits for plants (e.g., cannabis) from application of BR:
(see references for more information)
  • Increased yield
  • Increased disease resistance
  • Increased root growth for cuttings and growing plants
  • Increased light tracking by leafs (i.e., phototropism)
  • Increased rate of photosynthesis (Pn) by virtue of increased photon (light) usage, e.g., light-regulated gene expression
  • Increased stress resistance such as cold, drought, media salinity and biotic attack
  • Increased growth rate by action of BR as a growth regulator vis-a-vis control of light-regulated gene expression and cell elongation

Here are some possible benefits for fungi perfecti from application of BL:
(see references for more information)
  • Increased yields of mushrooms (i.e., fruit bodies)
  • Increased pining of fruit bodies
  • Increased mycelial growth rates
  • Fewer aborts of fruit bodies


Note #1:
Arabidopsis is flowering plant that is a member of the mustard family and is probably the most common "reference" organism used by plant scientists; it is kind of like how mice are used as reference organism by scientists who model possible drug effects on humans by using mice.

Note #2:
Application rate of BR (e.g., as BL or EBR) is < 0.01-0.05 ppm, using less is always better if the results are sufficient verses useing more. I have used 0.01 and 0.05 ppm with success, lately I have been using 0.025 ppm for testing.


Plant References on the Internet:


"Brassinolide: Molecule of the Month"
Martin A. Iglesias-Arteaga
University of Havana, Cuba
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/brass...ssinolidej.htm


"Mastermind steroid found in plants"
PhysOrg and Carnegie Institution Dept. of Plant Biology (2010)
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-...d-steroid.html


"Plants on Steroids: Key Missing Link Discovered"
PhysOrg and Carnegie Institution Dept. of Plant Biology (2009)
http://www.physorg.com/news171644021.html


"Plant steroids offer new paradigm for how hormones work"
PhysOrg and Carnegie Institution Dept. of Plant Biology (2008)
http://www.physorg.com/news136126876.html


"BRASSINOSTEROIDS: Essential Regulators of Plant Growth and Development"
Steven D. Clouse and Jenneth M. Sasse
Annu. Rev. Plant Physiol. Plant Mol. Biol. 1998. 49:427–51
(full text) http://www.ufv.br/DBV/PGFVG/BVE684/h...NOSTEROIDS.pdf


"Unlocking the secrets of a plant's light sensitivity"
PhysOrg and Carnegie Institution Dept. of Plant Biology (2010)
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-...nsitivity.html


"Researchers Learn What Sparks Plant Growth"
Howard Hues Medical Institute (2007)
http://www.hhmi.org/news/chory20070308.html


"Researcher identifies genetic pathway responsible for much of plant growth"
PhysOrg and Iowa State Universityy (2009)
http://www.physorg.com/news162041754.html


"Steroids Could Add Bulk to Crop Harvests"
Howard Hues Medical Institute (2005)
http://www.hhmi.org/news/chory6.html


"Stitching Together a Receptor Reveals Plant Hormone Action"
Howard Hues Medical Institute (2000)
http://www.hhmi.org/news/chory2.html


"Light and Hormonal Control of Plant Growth and Development"
Howard Hues Medical Institute (2008)
http://www.hhmi.org/research/investigators/chory.html



"Effects of Exogenous Epibrassinolide on Photosynthetic Characteristics in Tomato (Lycopersicon esculentum Mill) Seedlings under Weak Light Stress"
Ming Wang, Weijie Jiang and Hongjun Yu
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2010, 58 (6), pp 3642–3645
(full text) http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf9033893


"A role for brassinosteroids in the regulation of photosynthesis in Cucumis sativus"
Jing Quan Yu, Li Feng Huang, Wen Hai Hu, Yan Hong Zhou, Wei Hua Mao, Su Feng Ye and Salvador Nogués
J. Exp. Bot. (2004) 55 (399): 1135-1143
(full text) http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/399/1135.full


"BRASSINOSTEROIDS: A GREEN ALTERNATIVE FOR CROP PROTECTION?"
Ana Confraria
IMBC News, pp. 7 (2003)
(full text) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...News_Dec03.pdf


"Turning on Disease Resistance"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_63802656/


"Brassinosteroids stimulate plant tropisms through modulation of polar auxin transport in Brassica and Arabidopsis"
Li L, Xu J, Xu ZH, Xue HW
The Plant Cell 17:2738-2753 (2005)
(full text) http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content...e2=tf_ipsecsha


"Brassinosteroids Promote Root Growth in Arabidopsis"
Carsten Müssig, Ga-Hee Shin, and Thomas Altmann
Plant Physiol. 2003 November; 133(3): 1261–1271.
(full text) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC281621/


"Brassinosteroids Interact with Auxin to Promote Lateral Root Development in Arabidopsis"
Fang Bao, Junjiang Shen, Shari R. Brady, Gloria K. Muday, Tadao Asami and Zhenbiao Yang
Plant Physiology 134:1624-1631 (2004)
(full text) http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/cont...e2=tf_ipsecsha


"Effect of brassinosteroids on rooting and early vegetative growth of Coleus [Plectranthus forskohlii (Willd.) Briq.] stem cuttings"
K.N. Swamy and S Seeta Ram Rao
Indian Journal of Natural Products and Resources, vol. 1, no. 1, pp. 68-73 (2010)
(full text) http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/7693/1/IJNPR%201(1)%2068-73.pdf


Plant references uploaded to this post:



"Brassinosteroid phytohormones - structure, bioactivity and applications
Marco António Teixeira Zullo and Günter Adam
Braz. J. Plant Physiol., 14(3):143-181, 2002


"Twenty Years of Brassinosteroids: Steroidal Plant Hormones Warrant Better Crops for the XXI Century"
Vladimir Khripach, Vladimir Zhabinskii and Aede De Groot
Annals of Botany 86: 441±447, 2000


"Brassinosteroids – A new class of phytohormones"
S. Seeta Ram Rao, B. Vidya Vardhini, E. Sujatha and S. Anuradha
Current Science (2002) vol. 82, n. 10, pp. 1239-1245


"Structure–Activity Studies of Brassinosteroids and the Search for Novel Analogues and Mimetics with Improved Bioactivity"
Thomas G. Back and Richard P. Pharis
J Plant Growth Regul (2003) 22:350–361


"Influence of Brassinosteroids on Rooting and Growth of Geranium (Pelargonium sp.) Stem Cuttings"
K.N. Swany and S. Seeta Ram Rao
Asian Journal of Plant Sciences, vol. 5, no. 4, pp. 619-622 (2006)


"Plant Hormones: The Interplay of Brassinosteroids and Auxin"
Karen J. Halliday
Current Biology, Vol. 14, pp. R1008–R1010 (2004)


"Brassinolide Induces IAA5, IAA19, and DR5, a Synthetic Auxin Response Element in Arabidopsis, Implying a Cross Talk Point of Brassinosteroid and Auxin Signaling"
Ayako Nakamura, Kanako Higuchi, Hideki Goda, Makoto T. Fujiwara, Shinichiro Sawa, Tomokazu Koshiba, Yukihisa Shimada, and Shigeo Yoshida
Plant Physiology, December 2003, Vol. 133, pp. 1843–1853

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Old 01-12-2011, 09:54 PM   #73
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More about BR:

Here is an excerpt from a post a buddy of mine wrote to me, he is getting his Phd in plant science. He has assisted large scale studies of BR and BR inhibitors:

(note: he uses the acronym "BS" instead of "BR")
Quote:
In plants BSs are responsible for cell expansion and elongation, among other things.

It should be clarified that (most) hormones don't have a direct effect on plants. What plant hormones do is activate a signal cascade resulting in activation of genes which give response that is observed. Changes in concentration or usage of isomeric hormones has differing effects, thus the multiple effects seen from one hormone depending on the application method strength.

OK, now that thats out of the way. As I said already, BR's are responsible for cell elongation and expansion, and in many plants are active at night. Cell division will occur during the day, but the cells will remain small. Then the BRs come in at night and cause increases in cell size due to cell wall elongation among other things.

...
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:56 PM   #74
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(more on) Jasmonate (JAZ) plant hormone, re: biotic attack resistance, e.g., jasmonic acid


"Hormone acting as 'molecular glue' could boost plant immune systems"
PhysOrg with Michigan State University (2010)
http://www.physorg.com/news205598763.html


"Researchers JAZ(zed) about plant resistance discovery"
PhysOrg with Michigan State University (2007)
http://www.physorg.com/news103994532.html


"Biologists discover an on/off button on plants' alarm system"
PhysOrg with VIB (the Flanders Institute for Biotechnology) (2010)
http://www.physorg.com/news189335711.html
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:59 PM   #75
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PhysOrg:

Articles tagged with "plant hormone", good to check this every-so-often for new studies, etc.:
http://www.physorg.com/tags/plant+hormone/
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