[budhownd]

Hey gang.
Bud Tha Hownd is around with my very first grow ever.

This is the first time I'm posting pics so if it doesn't work, bear with me til I can get it right, huh?

Um, ok specifics about my lil amazons.

I planted about 17 seeds I germed from bagseed. So far, 7 of them have broken through the soil and are growing in 16 oz beer cups (ya know those, red/blue/clear plastic cups that ya drink beer from at house parties and concerts), I've lost maybe four or five, and I have 3 more seedlings that popped thru the soil just today after I used the soak/paper towel method of germinating them. The cups have holes drilled in them so that excess water drains thru and I have them sitting in another "catcher" cup with no holes.

I have a mix of plain unferted soil, perlite, bone meal(and blood meal in the three newest cups) and tap water. That's it. They were placed under a 400w HPS light on 7/24. The next morning I found them wilted and not doing well at all. So, I took them out from under the lights for the day, then placed them back under the lights that Monday night. They've been there ever since and seemed to be doing ok until I checked on them today and found one of the first set of leaves curled under on one plant. The rest seem ok.

Does that signal some sort of deficiency? Or overwatering? Light or heat problem?
I have two fans going right now until I can get more. I've figured out a way to get rid of some of the exhaust, but lack of funds prevents me from implementing the plan right now. The room stays between 80 & 91 degrees ( I know, I know.. too hot ) and the humidity stays between 40 and 50 %.

I think it may be time to raise them a bit because the stems appear to be a lil stretched, but I'm not sure since they are only a few weeks old.

Also, the second set of leaves on my tallest amazon appear to be lighter in color than the first set of leaves.

I'm gonna upload pics into the gallery cuz I dunno how to put them into the body of the text to illustrate the prollems I'm havin. Everyone, feel free to take a gander at em and shoot me any kind helpful hints you may have. Thanks in advance. Bud .

[littlesamsonite]

They are looking alright, don't start freaking out and changing stuff with every bump in the road. One of the biggest problems new growers have is themselves they try to fix to much just let it grow.
That heat might be a problem so as soon as you do have the funds you should fix that. Another thing that is concerning me is the bone/blood meal, at this point in their lives I don't think they need it.
I don't know how a 7/24 light cycle would work so I will just assume that is the same as 24/7

Good luck with the grow I will be watching this one

[budhownd]

Thanks littlesamsonite.

They look ok?? *whew* That's good to know.

Sorry for the misleading post.

The plants are under lights for 24/7. No dark period. I've seen posts where some folks go 18/6, but 24/7 is more convenient for me since I have to buy a 3 prong adapter for my light timer AND I have to figger out how tha dumb thing works.

They have been under those lights since, 7/24 or July 24th. So, they have been under lights for about 10 days.

I posted pics of my tallest, fastest growing plant as well as the curled leaf plant. I think my tallest is stretching a lil bit. Not sure, tho.

There isn't too much bone & blood meal in the soil. In fact the only plants with the blood and bone meal are the ones that have just popped from the shell. I dont have pics of them yet. I wanted to see how it would affect their growth compared to the ones with just bone meal. They were just seeds with taps roots 3 days ago. They now have pushed their way out of the soil.
I didn't find out until a couple days ago that bone and blood meal are considered to be ferts. They seem to be ok for the moment.

I'm figgering at least another week and a half before I even think about ferts.

K++ to all. Have a great night!

Bud Tha Hownd
Amazon Toker ... and noobie GROWER!!

[budhownd]

Well, the gals (I hope) are now 35 days old from the start of germ. and they are lookin good. Better than I expected at this point anyway.


I've made all sorts of newbie mistakes and yet, they are still here with me. I am here to attest to the fact that MJ is a very hardy plant.

I underestimated when they would need ferts and nutes. This resulted in a nasty case of N deficiency. Leaves turned yellow and they had some curling. They seem to have bounced back tho.

They've been transplanted once from their beer cups and I'm still trying to get a feeding schedule down. They don't seem to like to go an entire week between feedings.
I'm using Fox Farm's Grow Big along with a real watered down Super Thrive solution for their veg cycle and Fox Farm Big Bloom for flowering. The superthrive solution is used mainly as a foliar spray between feedings.


Their first feeding was last Friday ( 8/12/05) and by Thursday afternoon they looked hungry and grumpy, so I fed them last night. Even tho they were hungry at their first feeding I didn't weanna overdo it so I used slightly less than what is recommended on the bottle then I uped it a lil bit for the second feeding.
This morning I looked in on them and they'd all perked up nicely and looked to have added an inch or so in height. All of them. I'm still amazed by the rate of growth. I can go to work and come home to find very noticable new growth. The fan leaves are getting wider and fatter and the new growth at the top of the plant is vigorous. If there are new leaves that are still closed up in the morning, by that night they are open and fanned out soaking up the light. Those funny little growths I saw on the stems at the juncture of every node turned out to be new leaf sites! And they are popping up all over the plants.

The only concern that I really have right now is the dark red/purple coloring on the stems of a couple of the plants. Not the main stem but a few of the leaf stems have it. It isn't too deep a color but it's enuff to make me wonder if it isn't some kind of nute deficiency. My first instinct is to 'do something' but for now I'll let them go and see what they tell me. Especially since I caint pinpoint what it is and I can't get a good enuff pic to post so that someone can possibly give an opinion.



I've posted some pics of the girls in my gallery. If you see anything that can be improved, let a sistah know. Thanks in advance.

Ya'll take care and be peace.

Bud tha Hownd

Hello sistah...how about a few tips from a fellow sistah? :wink:

I took a peek at your gallery. Can you tell me how big those pots are? I can't get a grip on how deep they are from the pics. They look like they'll be needing a repotting in a week or so. They're quite small for their age, but look healthy enough to me :smile: How long were you planning on vegging before putting them in flower?

The purple on the stems has two explanations. Some strains develop this coloration naturally, Blueberry for one. Part of their genetic make-up. That's the first explanation. The second is a nitrogen deficiency, which will cause the stems to purple. If let go without giving a nitrogen supplement, the leaves will eventually yellow and fall off.

Can you tell me what the NPK reading is on the label of your nutes? During veg they should be getting nitrogen rich nutes, meaning the N reading on your label should be the highest of the three numbers. If its not, you're probably needing a mild nitrogen supplement. Considering the fact you've been feeding her regularly, I tend to think its more a question of the plant's genetics rather than any kind of deficiency. But check your label, ok? Then we can take it from there :smile:

Edit: Just saw you say they're recovering from an N deficiency....the purple could be left over from that. Still be good to know what the reading on that Fox Farm Grow stuff is :wink: With the regular feedings the plant's been having I find it strange she had a nitrogen deficiency Also, careful with the nutes....too much is not a good thing...

What kind of pH levels are you running?

[budhownd]

Originally Posted by Indigo

Hello sistah...how about a few tips from a fellow sistah? :wink:

I took a peek at your gallery. Can you tell me how big those pots are? I can't get a grip on how deep they are from the pics. They look like they'll be needing a repotting in a week or so. They're quite small for their age, but look healthy enough to me :smile: How long were you planning on vegging before putting them in flower?

The purple on the stems has two explanations. Some strains develop this coloration naturally, Blueberry for one. Part of their genetic make-up. That's the first explanation. The second is a nitrogen deficiency, which will cause the stems to purple. If let go without giving a nitrogen supplement, the leaves will eventually yellow and fall off.

Can you tell me what the NPK reading is on the label of your nutes? During veg they should be getting nitrogen rich nutes, meaning the N reading on your label should be the highest of the three numbers. If its not, you're probably needing a mild nitrogen supplement. Considering the fact you've been feeding her regularly, I tend to think its more a question of the plant's genetics rather than any kind of deficiency. But check your label, ok? Then we can take it from there :smile:

Edit: Just saw you say they're recovering from an N deficiency....the purple could be left over from that. Still be good to know what the reading on that Fox Farm Grow stuff is :wink: With the regular feedings the plant's been having I find it strange she had a nitrogen deficiency Also, careful with the nutes....too much is not a good thing...

What kind of pH levels are you running?

Hi Indigo. I'm not feminised either. LoL.


Thanks for the help and the interest in my lil ones.

Let's see.

The pots are 6 in. pots from Home Depot. That's my newbie mistake # 2: Undertestimating how big their pots should be.

I started them out in regular 16 0z. plastic cups. The depth of which is about 6 inches. Unfortunately, that's the same depth of their new pots. The tag on the bottom of the pot says 6 inches. I assume that's the depth. So, their new homes are not any deeper then their old ones. The new pots are wider than the cups however. So, I tried to put them as far up toward the top of the pot as I could so they would have a little grow room.

I think the pots have something to do with their size ( I didn't know they were too small for their age) cuz they don't have any real room to stretch their roots. :(
I went out today and got some bigger pots. The sticker on the pots says they are 12 1/4 inches and they hold 17 quarts of soil which means that they are about 4 gallons if 4 quarts make one gallon. Please correct me if I'm wrong math isn't my strong suit. LoL.


I have no idea how long to veg them. I've read that a longer veg cycle makes a better yield or potency or something. I'm really not interested in all that this first time out. I just want to keep them alive and healthy from veg to harvest (if any of them are female).

I spose I'll let them get at least 12 inches tall before I think about flowering them ( right now the tallest is 9 in. the shortest is 6 in.). I want to make sure they are healthy, with no fert or nute problems, before going into flower. So, until I'm satisfied with that they'll stay veggin.
Since they are bagseed I don't really know if they are indica, sativa, or a hybrid. So, I dunno if they are gonna be tall and lanky or short and bushy. Although, one plant is really, really, bushy. Kinda squat, with alot more foliage than the rest. She's the only one like that. The rest of them are slimmer and more uniform in their appearance.


I've read about the purple stems and N deficiency. The Fox Farm Grow Big is 6-4-4. I've only used it twice and they perk up really nicely when I feed them. I don't wanna overdo it, but maybe they aren't gettng enuff N. For some reason I thought the Grow Big was 12-7-7. Hmmm...

Maybe that and their cramped quarters are the reasons for the purpling. The bottle recommends one tsp/gallon but I only used 3/4 tsp. for the first feeding because the water container is only 3.54 quarts. The second feeding I uped it to a full tsp. They seem to be doing fine. I have a little bit of clawing on on plant and a couple have yellow/green leaves. The yellow leaves are older leaves that turned that way, I guess, because I didn't realize that I needed to start feeding them. They never fell off and never recovered their green color, but they didn't die all the way either.
I just remembered that one plant did have nice green leaves and the very tips, just the points, of one of the leaves were yellow. I fed her a second time with the full tsp. of Grow Big in the 3.54 quarts of water and the yellow tips disappeared.


I've spotted some purpling on three of the five now, mostly on leaf stems but one has it along the main stalk and another has it very faintly in one really thin strip along the main stem.

Other than the purple color, they seem ok. There are new fan leaves on the top of all the plants and they keep sprouting more every other day or so. Plus, there are the new leaves growing at all of the nodes. The leaves are alos gettng bigger. They stated out sort of small but now all the plants have fan leaves that are as big as my palm. At first, I thought they were wilted but I took a closer look and realized they are bigger, heavier leaves.

I've read about using hydrogen peroxide to help aerate the soil and help the roots uptake more nutrients, but I don't wanna try it until I read a lil more about it and the effects it can have. I don't wanna do anything to burn then especially since there are now ferts in the soil.


I bought a Rapitest pH meter from Home Depot and everytime I stick it in the soil it initially goes all the way over to the 9 on the alkaline side, then slowly dips back over to the acidic side of the meter. It usually stops just a hair to the right of the 7. Even still, I'm thinking my pH may be a lil too high for them. I have some pH down concentrate that I'm planning on using during their next watering. which will probably be tomorrow night or Monday morning.
I'm using tap water right now that I let sit no less that 24 hours before I use it. The reading on the water right is right at 7. Whether it's straight from the tap or it's been sitting. I thought this was kind of weird, but I guess the water is just pH balanced since there aren't any kind of deposits built up on any of the faucets in the house.

Hmm..... I guess I should be testing the water when it has ferts and nutes in it too, huh? Ok, chalk that up to newbie mistake # 4. But don't ferts and/or nutes make the pH go down more than up?? *sigh*


Damn, I wrote a book, huh? I try to give all tha facts about the gals that I can, so that anyone with advice can have as many of the facts as possible. I've read alot of posts here and on other grow sites and while the grow gurus are all willing to give advice to us newbie blockheads, I always see one recurring theme... not enuff info. So, I'm piling all the info I can pull from my gray matter into this post.

Oh yea, one last thing. I know that, during flower, weed has a wide range of odors. However, I thought that you could only smell the odors DURING FLOWER. Everytime I open the closet door a pleasant, heavy, kind of musky green plant odor fills my nostrils. I know it's the plants because I can smell it when I put my face close to them ( I kiss them often. No, I'm not a plantophile!!) . The smelliest one is the lil short bushy plant. A couple of the others smell almost as strong as her and the other two have it faintly but I have to really inhale good to get a whiff. Is that just MJ doin her thing or are they respirating this smelly odor to let me know they need a plant tic tac or something???

Well, Indigo, that's the info on my grow so far. If ya need more info just let me know and I'll get it for ya. It's great to find another woman grower. I know there's a thread just for the ladies on this site, but what little exploring I did over there turned up posts about husbands and boyfriends and kids and recipies. Subjects that I don't have enuff knowledge, experience, or interest in to converse about. So, thanks for helpin a sistah out with whatever knowledge you feel like imparting.

Erybody take care, have a safe weekend, and just keep toking.. just keep toking... just keep tokingggg. << Dori's song from Finding Nemo. OK OK she didn't say toking but it sounds dumb to say 'just keep swimming', since I know folks aren't reading this post underwater


peace ya'll

Bud tha Hownd

Mornin' sistah...glad to hear you ain't feminized either

You have given me all the information I need to give you a hand so here we go.

First off, you might want to know your bagseed is an indica dom hybrid (you can tell from leaves and plant structure, indicas are usually short and squat with wider fingered leaves). The plant you say is different from the others, from the descirption, is a heavier indica pheno. They will not get very tall, most indicas don't, and they're smaller than normal a bit because they're stunted, and a bit because they don't seem to be mad stretchers...so that's good. Sativas and some sativa dom hybrids can get very large. Dealing with techniques for space issues is yet another chapter LOL

Every single problem you are having with your plants right now, including the fact that they're smaller than normal (though the bit of abuse they've had may have contributed :wink, is the size of the pots. They've gotten root bound, and have probably been root bound most of the time since they were very young. Those cups work well, but they fill up quick and you really need to be careful about transplanting when the plants need it, otherwise stunting is the result, especially if they get root bound when they're young.

You need to repot those babies now Bud, the pots are far too small. The plants use up the nutrients inside the soil very quickly because cannabis develops (and needs to be able to develop) quite a large root system. There'll be more roots than soil in there pretty soon and your plant will be needing constant feedings to compensate, very tricky for a new grower to correctly dial in. This is why your stems purple and your leaves yellow. Cannabis roots tend to grow downwards, so the taller the pots the better.

The amount of plant matter you see above the pots is about equal the amount of roots going on inside the pots. That is a good way to tell when they need re-potting. Just picture the plant upside down in the pot, if you feel it'd fill the pot, then chances are that the roots have done so and the plant needs more room and fresh soil.
Four quarts equal a gallon, you're correct...and you can transplant your babies into that pot and use it all the way through flower. Once you transplant, which should be now, back off on the nutes for a week or so. You'll see that your plants won't be needing them as they'll find all the nutes they need in the new soil. They should also take off growing with room for the roots to stretch, they'll be happy as hell :smile: So, repot, new soil, well aerated (perlite) no nutes, and IMO it wouldn't do them harm to have a shot of epsom salts too, very mild solution, 1/4tsp of Epsom to a gallon of water, melt the crystals in a bit of hot water, added to the water of the first watering.

Your Fox Farm nutes are fine for veg with 6-4-4. After repotting wait a week and then give them a shot at half strength. You want your plants to get to flower with sufficient nitrogen. Theywill feed on what they have stored in the leaves during flower, and the plant won't be receiving extra nitrogen from the nutes (which in flower should be P-K rich). If you give them too much nitrogen, they'll take too long to flower, if they don't get enough, most of the leaves will yellow and fall off in late flower and the plant may not perfrom to its best in bud production. Your last feeding of veg nutes to your plants should be within the first 10 days of switching 12/12, and should be mild, half strength or less depending on how often you've fed them. Knowing this, and knowing that your plants in new pots won't be needing such frequent feedings, you can more or less figure a feeding schedule for them :smile: I grow organic, and to me as far as nutes go, less is more...but I find myself feeding my plants roughly once every 10 days depending on strain, etc.

Claw is a sign of overfert...when you see it, flush your plants very well with pure pH corrected tapwater (very well means water equal to three times the volume of your pots) and don't feed for at least a week if not more.

You seem to be very conscious of your limits and thats good Too many people decide to experiment left and right before knowing how to grow correctly and make the most incredible messes. Leave the hydrogen peroxide for later :wink: I've been growing 5 years and I'd be pretty nervous about using it correctly myself :wink:

Ferts will lower the pH of water, which must always be checked after adding the nutes in. Be a good idea if you checked the pH of your runoff water, just stick the pen in the excess water coming out the bottom of the pots for your reading, right after watering. Your pH of 7 is a bit high, cannabis enjoys anything from 5.8 - 6.5/6.7. But check your runoff before adjusting pH. If you have acidic soil, your watering with a 7.0 water may be just fine, depends on the values of the runoff :wink:

Flowering - I always wait until my plants are sexually mature before putting into flower, meaning they present preflowers and alternate branching. Usually happens anywhere between 20 days and 40 days veg, depending on strain. You can flower at any time, but if you flower before you'll compromise yeild and size of buds. If that's not an issue for you this time round its no problem at all to flower when you wish.

You won't believe how some strains can kick up in veg. I've had some strains that have smelled stronger in veg than in flower. Some strains require very good odor control, and you need to keep an eye on those details when you do decide to grow out some "boutique" genetics. Some strains hardly smell at all, others will infest entire buildings...careful with the odor control :smile:

The ladies forum is mostly a place where the girls show their wares and generally talk about women's issues, sort of a place in this male dominated growers scene to get together and be girls . As far as growing goes, the lady growers on these boards get their info from the other forums :wink: At least I do. Major props to you for having undertaken this adventure on your own. Most ladies are introduced to growing through somebody else, boyfriend, husband, brother, etc. I also am "self-made", did and learned it all on my own, and damn proud!

Think I've answered everything...anything I missed give me a yell...in any case all you're basically needing is a good repotting to a proper pot and a minimum of Cannabis Basics 101 to follow through

ooh yeah, the pics...when you press the "Post Reply" button (not "Quick Reply"), you should see the thumbnails in your gallery directly under the window of the post you're writing. Just click on the thumbnail you want to insert in the post and it'll appear in the post as vB code, when you click submit the pic will become visible :

Forgot an item :smile:

After you repot your plants to the 4 gallons pots, you're going to have to keep an eye on your watering. I usually use an intermediate pot (2.5 gallons)before putting them in flower in 4 gallons.
Your plants will be small and your pots will be large. You need to make sure the soil dries out before watering. Best way to judge when the plants need water is to feel the weight of the pot.

When you've repotted, before watering, lift your pot up and get a feel of the weight. Then do it again after you've watered. You'll get a grip on how the pot feels when your plants need water this way, so use the lift method to judge...if the pot feels light, they're ready for watering, if it feels a bit heavy, wait a day and check again :wink:

You go girl!

Edit: I think the lady's forum moderator Ms. Grat3ful got a look at this thread, and decided to do something about getting some serious grow discussions going in the Women's Forum :smile: Here's a link to the thread she started, and I've linked from there to here so the new lady growers stopping in there can access threads like this and hopefully get some questions answered :smile:

[budhownd]

Hey Indigo.

I finally got the lil ones into their new homes. Damn those pots are heavy. LoL.

I've watered them well and have flushed the ones that had a lil bit of clawing. No ferts or nutes. I did add a lil bit of pH down to the water and they all have a pH between 6.5 and 6.9. None of them are 7 anymore. Hopefully that helps them out a bit.

I'm trying to do as much of an organic grow as I can. The Fox Farm Grow Big is listed as mostly organic and my flower fert ( FF Big Bloom) is 100% organic. Nuffin but worm castings and guano and some other stuff. The soil I'm using is plain unferted, nuffin added, potting soil. So any ferts and nutes they get have to come from me not the soil. I mixed in some perlite, blood meal, bone meal, and some saphgum ( sp?) peat moss.

Um, just how important is it that I have no light leaks? I do open the door to check on them and to ventilate the closet a bit. It gets a lil hot in there in spite of the oscillating fan and another smaller fan and I like to let em breeve a bit.
I read that light leaks can cause hermies. I don't wanna cause that but, I dont have the space to put any kind of exhaust system in there and although I'm in a house, I'm renting so I can't do any kind of cutting into walls or doors to make vent holes. :(

I would have no idea what pre flowers look like even if I saw them on the plant, so how would I know if they are sexually mature? Just go by the amout of time they've been in veg? I'm kinda nervous about letting them veg any longer than a couple more weeks cuz I won't have room for bigger pots if they need it.
I've seen all sorts of pics and stuff about what male and female plants should look like but pics are way different than seeing it in real life. Especially if you've never seen what you are supposed to be looking for.

Aiight, lemme get outta hea. I start classes at tha local community college tomorrow and I have to be up for work at 4:30 am. Geez, I'm gonna be tired by the time class starts. LoL.

I'll check in and let ya know how the lil amazons are doing tomorrow and add anything pertinent that I can think of.

YAY for us, bein self made wimmin growers!

Have a great day, Indigo. I'll holla at ya lata.

peace
Bud

Heya Bud, damn girl, you're burning the candle at both ends!

Yeah, I know the pots get heavy, especially after you water them

Good deal on the repotting and the pH...give 'em time a week and those babies will be growing their little hearts out, mark my words!

As far as your soil goes...soil, even if it isn't preferted, contains an incredible amount of neat stuff that your plants can and will use, so don't feel like you're starving them right now. You're not. The fact they were rootbound is what made them look so hungry to you all the time...they didn't have anything else to feed on in the soil and had to feed on what they had stored. You won't have to be giving them nutes so often from here on in. No nutes for at least 10 days....especially if you mixed blood and bone meal in with the soil. Blood is a potent source of nitrogen for them, bone contains micro-elements such as calcium, magnesium, carbon, etc.

Light leaks...now this could get tricky and we need to be imaginative :wink:

First off, you don't have to worry about keeping your closet sealed when the HPS is on. Lord knows there's enough light blasting in there that if anything, light leaks out and not in LOL! What you have to worry about is that your closet is well sealed and there are no light leaks when the light is off. Meaning that...if you have to keep temps down during the day, you can leave your closet doors ajar with no worries for your plants, but at night it must be closed, otherwise hermies are a serious probability. Since you are giving them light 24/7 in veg, this is not an issue. When you put them in flower though, you'll need to be sure to close the doors when the light goes off, and leave them closed until the light goes back on. You're going to have to figure out the best lights on and lights off times on the basis of your necessities. You need to be there when your lights come on to open the closet doors for air circulation, and be there to close them when the lights go off.

Is the house rented furnished? Meaning the closet isn't yours? Let me know so we can eventually discuss some ghetto venting alternatives :wink:

You don't have to wait until they're sexually mature to flower them....but most people do. Its very easy to pick out preflowers...its harder to be 100% sure of sex judging by preflowers...but we can get into that further on.

I had to borrow the pics below from 1tokeOverLine (thank you, its for a good cause!) to illustrate the preflowers...they are not mine :wink:

Preflowers form at the nodes, where you've just noticed those little new shoots growing along the stem. The preflowers will form between the shoots and the main stalk.




That's what they look like... for the record the top pic is almost certainly a male preflower, and the pic below is a 100% female preflower (note the pistils coming out of it, its on the left side of the stalk :wink. Preflowers start out looking like tiny cones poking out from the node, then as they mature they either become shaped like little balls (male preflowers) or they spit two white hairs out of the cone (female preflowers).
Believe me, your plants will not fill those pots enough to need yet another repotting...if they had been sativa dom and not stunted they could easily do so, but in this case I seriously doubt its going to happen. In any case, you can flower them whenever your little heart desires . Be a good idea like you said to give them some time to recover, they need to go into flower in the best possible conditions

Think we've about covered it... be checking back to see if ya need anything or if you have more questions :smile:

Hope you have a nice day...and get some rest for pete's sake!