Chem. vs. Organic ferts discussion

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I keep seeing posts how many people swear on using organic fertilizers.
Most users of organic ferts seem to be growers who grow for just for themselves and not so much commercial growers growing mostly for profit.

While I lived in the US (Cali) I visited a few grow ops though which were using organic fertilizers.

I also noticed there are a few labs in the US offering "final product testing" where they determine if and when there are what kind of traces of fertilizer left in the plant, they test for mold and a few other things and of course THC, CBD, and CBN contents.

Interestingly those lab tests CAN NOT TELL if the residual plant fertilizer results from an organic grow or not.


Personally I have to say I have done grows using Chemical fertilizers and grows doing it the organic way.
Organic was more work but more forgiving, Chemical was cheaper but it was easier to burn plants.
More about that in a bit.

It always seemed somewhat pathetic to me the majority of pot smokers who were swearing on organically grown pot also drinking soda, eating red meat from the supermarket (I am not going to bother you here listing what is in red meat, Google it and you will throw up), driving 8MPG trucks (do you actually know what you are inhaling with your breathing air by simply being stuck in traffic?) etc pp.

Simply put:

Not all but the majority (and by that I mean well more than 50%) of pot smokers are being hypocritical about wanting to smoke Organicaly grown pot only.


Now on to how I do it:

A few years ago,while still growing organic, I was introduced to a Chemical fertilizer where the guy (we called him "Baby A") using it himself claimed it being "the most awesome stuff I will ever come across".

I asked him "What makes it so awesome?"

He told me there is no salt build up (generally a common problem), it is not easy to burn the plants with it (unlike with most other chem ferts),
He also claimed that fertilizer is ALL HE USES w/o having any plant deficiencies.

I remember responding to him: "Yeah right!"

And most importantly he claimed there is NO TELLING @ the final product whether it has been grown organically or not.


I ignored for a while what he had told me.

We all like to stick with what is working for us & how we do it, right?


Then there came the day where I left Cali and moved to this relatively remote island.

We have everything here you guys have in the US, UK, and the rest of the modern world.
But we have to be able to afford it. And if we can afford it it still takes a long time (weeks) to get here.
Postal service is once, sometimes twice a week. And that's just letters coming in with the same transportation tourists get here with.
Packages, freight etc. come in by barge usually every 2 weeks but it can take much longer depending on if things broke down or the weather doesn't play along.

What does my location have to do with Organic vs. Chemical ferts?

I can't just order this and that. And if I order something I either have to have someone coming here anyway bring it in for me or ship it the regular way.
We have ppl around raising goats & pigs & chickens so yes I could use their "leftovers" trying to grow with it and so on and yes I have done that before with Horse poop and it worked well but that was outdoors, not indoors like what I do now.

So back to when I moved here after having visited many times before.
I remembered "Baby A" and his claims. See what I wrote above.

I told myself this seems to be a way to "get it done" and it seems to be a way with the "least resistance".
Yes I consider myself lazy.

So I went and got this refrigeration container someone had converted to an office and got started.
I could bore you with the details....but you can bore yourself instead by reading the "Mystery Grow" link in my signature.

Over the past 3 years I evolved to supplying pretty much the whole chain of islands with pot. Not that they have much of a choice since I am the only one around.
Yes my grow is known by everyone and yes it is legal.
In short: What the elder here say supersedes "federal" law. And growing pot here is unregulated. "Hard drugs" are illegal though and will stay that way which is good so.



I now use only a (one) chemical fertilzer.
I have had visitors come down and they could NOT tell a difference by taste whether the pot has been grown organically or not.
Many of those ppl telling me that have been heavy smokers for well over 30 years.

This is what I use ONLY and how I use it:

Jack's Classic 20-20-20 All Purpose 5 grams EVERY watering (or 10 grams every other watering) during flowering.

Jack's Blossom Booster 10-30-20 same as above.

Find YOUR Dealer HERE.


And these are (some) of the results:

The "non chem taste" you have to just believe me...or try doing it yourself.
I promise you won't regret it.



About 1 month in to flowering:


Older pic, same strain as above:

I am impressed with your yield and this organic fertiliser certainly helps. You have incredible results. And thats the main thing.

I am lucky that I can get Bio Nova products. I dont know if they are considered organic or what. Probably not at all. But it works for me now.


Anyway most people smoke weed by mixing it with a bit of tobacco. They still claim that the weed tastes wonderful. Oviously the tobacco will change and destroy the taste. So whether the weed is grown organically or not it wont make a difference if they mix tobacco into the joint.

Cannawinner said:

I am impressed with your yield and this organic fertiliser certainly helps. You have incredible results. And thats the main thing.

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No no it is a CHEMICAL fertilizer I am using.

That was the whole point I was trying to bring over: It is a HIGH GRADE commercial Chem fert, EASY TO USE and NO DETERMINABLE DIFFERENCE IN TASTE in the final product compared to organic ferts.

OOPs. I meant Chemical.

Strainhunter said:

We all like to stick with what is working for us & how we do it, right?

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Pretty much sums it up. You keep growing good bud with Jacks and I'll keep good bud with my organic living soil.

FWIW I don't think growing organically is more work. You have to mix up soil once. After that you can no-till recycle indefinitely and re-amend via top dressing (or mulch).

Pine

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Nice work Hunter....you dont fuck around
I see lotsa people get great yield, no fuss with jacks,...so is it 20-20-20 for veg and 10-30-20 for flower or both all the time?
What ur sayin about tissue analysis makes sense.
I go back and forth between organic and minerals and combos, and as long as theyre not overfed nobody can tell the difference.

flotationdevice said:

You bring up an interesting point.

In my neck of the woods, dispensaries are promoting themselves as providers of "wholesome" organically grown medicine. There is a bias towards chemicals. Labs that test cannabis seem to be popping up all over. Dispensaries are touting the results to customers, although not everything that makes it into the shop is grown organically, or tested.

Any attempt to give patients more info about their meds is a step forward, but I don't think people are really able to interpret the results in a way that helps them make better medicine selections.

Lab testing is fairly new. Who knows, maybe cannabinoid profiling will be more useful someday. I really hope so. At this point, I feel that lab testing is just another marketing strategy, and the product being sold is a clean conscience. This encourages varying degrees of hypocrisy.

What matters most to me isn't "organic or chemical", it's knowing that I had final say on quality control, every step of the way.

And it seems like you've got quality control nailed down pretty well...

Congrats!

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I have to say you summed it up VERY nicely & your little write up is wise.

Thanks for the information, I was always wondering what was all the hype of the organic ferts.

I use Fox Farms line of products and from what I've seen so far, they are pretty good and better than planting the old fashion way.

Not only on herb but on tomatoes, and fruits I've been planting.

I've come to realize, and encourage others to realize too, that there are several degrees and styles of "organic" growing. You can still go to the hydro store and drop RIDICULOUS money on an entire line of "organic" nutes that you may run in some inert coco/peat/perlite mix that some would blasphemously refer to as "soil". You can also follow some sort of organic fish/kelp or guano tea (all great shit, don't misinterpret) regimen feeding the plant various teas on a set schedule that you found online that somehow works for every strain of cannabis out there...but neither of these methods will be of any interest to the grower once he or she sticks their head in a book and begins to learn what is going on in the soil on a microscopic/biological level...

The number ONE component of a truly successful and truly organic grow is a living, breathing, eating, shitting, soil complete with predator, prey, and everything a plant could need in it's lifespan. This method puts all the work up front in the building of a quality soil, and from there on out the grower is required only to water and watch patiently as the plant takes exactly what it needs from the soil...no flushing, no mixing, and rarely any deficiency identifying. You'll find that the general consensus among true organic growers who understand their plants and their life cycle is that the soil continues to get better and better with age, requiring less and less input with each passing grow.

If you enjoy growing with chemicals and it's working out for you, by all means continue doing so. To each his own. I am not trying to push my views or methods on anyone...That said, it is important to know that the term "organic" doesn't necessarily mean to some what it means to others. True organics is much more like looking after a vegetable garden than it is any other method of growing pot...and why shouldn't it be? This plant has no special needs.

It is just a difference of opinion......


I grow organic and I mix up my recycled soil, plant and every 2 weeks I dust the base of my plants with 4 ingredients and water, maybe once or twice I hit them with a tea, how could it get much easier than that?

I have no problem growing them large.


I try to grow as earth friendly and sustainably as possible, for the same reason why I recycle, because it just seems like the right thing to do. Im not saying it's my way or the highway, to each their own.

yep. "earth friendly". it's an attitude not a policy.

Its more of a personal thing with me. Just like all the organic fruits you can buy. If you find someone that knows how to grow using chems and do whats necessary to get them out in a flush I dont have a issue smoking it. I still prefer Organics for my Personal grows. i dont think one is better then the other. Like I said its more of a personal choice and I like the taste better then the chem buds I have tried(not grown by me)

Yeah it real dose come down to personal preference.
I am one who will run a nute line, and the following grow run a different line.
I like to have a comparison between them to see how they perform.

I have grown a lot of different ways, and right now i am comparing bio bizz line vs Dutch master gold line, and I can already tell you that I use half the amount of dutch masters......can't wait to do a weight, and taste comparison.

Growing organics isn’t about buying something in a plastic bottle, that’s labeled organic; I myself live on a tropical island and in addition to the usual fare, I have abundance of wild plants, herbs and even spices (which I use for pest control) that I garden with. I also grow with a chemical fertigation regime (short flowering indicas mostly).
I think what organic growers should strive to achieve is the creation of a micro ecosystem around each plant. This does indeed require a lot of preparation and a hell of a lot of work but I recon its worth in the end (for some of us it’s a labour of love).
Maybe the difference is minimal with some of the shorter flowering races, but grow out some sativas or landraces and the difference in smell and taste is quite evident, overall high though I’m not too sure about.
Nice grow by the way, your obviously doing what you do very well, so more power to you brother.

these threads will always pop up about the chem vs organic. So tired of it all to be honest. People are gonna use what they 'think' is the best there is. Pot growing is a very special hobby so of course growers are gonna use what they 'think' are the best nutrients...this is why organic growers do what they do. Since the 80's, I've smoked/grown both and unless not properly flushed...there is not a single difference in chemgrown and organic, taste wise appearance wise or potency wise. After trying out my last organic attempt with age old organics, I said Fuc! some expensive overhyped smelly low yielding organic shit & use my tried & trusted chem methods. No disrespect to anyone...just my personal opinion.

Everyone seems to focus on yield and quality on this site when arguing organic vs conventional. But what about the negative impact conventional fertilizers have on the environment?

The more I learn about the soil food web and nutrient cycle loop the less conventional salt fertilizer makes sense. Why inhibit/ignore a perfect system that actually improves diversity and fertility of soil, as well as creates no pollutants? Let the microbes do what they were designed to do.


I feel good knowing an organic system promotes diversity, fertility, and is a positive impact on the environment, it's as simple as that. My soil is reusable.


For conventional growers, where do you dump all your soil after each run, or drain your water that contains phosphates and other salts after flush/runoff?

Just something to think about.

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Enterthesandman- lawl. Give me a break. "This is why organic growers do what they do"... *If you knew anything about soil biology or the soil food web, you'd realize most people(especially outside the small world of online marijuana growers)grow organic because it's the way this planet chose to work/function. As well as it's sustainable. Which is important to some people.*

I think most people's decision on choosing organic is a little more dynamic than that.

Conventional fertilizer has been around since the 19th c.
Organic(soil food web) has been around since, forever, it's how the planet works.

Organic is just a term humans created. Out in the forest, 1 million years ago you think the trees were like, "ahhh shit where's all the nutrients, i need some liquid cal mag plus!?"


If you established an active and diverse medium, I'm sure your attempt at organic would of have been different, I assume

I see slot of commercial salt based outdoor, shits every where around here , from multiple growers, it is always lacking in aroma and flavor compared to the same strain grown organically. It is usually just dull. Indoor hydroponic is different, I understand, but outdoors organic will always be a superior product than conventional grown.

enter sandman said:

these threads will always pop up about the chem vs organic. So tired of it all to be honest.
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Yet you are contributing to those.

Thanks for your diverse view though!