America

the Democrats are firmly right wing on the issues that actually matter - economics, foreign policy, whistle blowers, right on down to things like health care

enough with the commie and socialist talk lol. the furthest left representative the US has is Bernie Sanders who is a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT. he's more in line with Keynesian economics and old school FDR-era liberalism than he is a socialist. the countries Bernie wants to emulate are all kicking our asses, they are libertarian, have free market economies, and aren't authoritarian/dictatorships. naming venezuela (a country who's economy is over 75% privately held btw) and dictators doesn't prove anything other than you guys need to put your heads back in the books and learn a thing or two. the problems with these countries is almost overwhelmingly the AUTHORITARIAN aspects.

when the American overton window on political discourse has drastically shifted to the far far right, guys like Bernie Sanders (if he ran in the UK for example would be more of a moderate than a guy like Corbyn) get called a socialist and communist. shit, even republican legends like Reagan would be considered too soft and liberal for today's ultra far right.

Cannavore said:

the Democrats are firmly right wing on the issues that actually matter - economics, foreign policy, whistle blowers, right on down to things like health care

enough with the commie and socialist talk lol.

shit, even republican legends like Reagan would be considered too soft and liberal for today's ultra far right.

Click to expand...

reminds me of the time ...
working at a military contractor - they used to be called "defense contractors" but it's pretty obvious these days that the US military is not about defense - I remember a co-worker talking about the terrible Evil of Socialism, where money is taken from citizens via taxes, and then spent on large programs that create lots of jobs.

"are you saying the US Defense industry is Socialist ?"

I asked him. Fortunately we got caught up in a meeting and continued doing some good work together, and he had never had to answer the question.

What do the republicans here think of the latest tax 'plan'?

Seems like sheer lunacy from the outside looking in.....

My best work is not documented and leaves no trace of it's origin.

Millions are moved by it and I continue unabated.

I sleep like a baby, or as some would say, like god during the holocaust.

America is at best, a concept, brimming with unhealthy, ill focused dullards.

Spoken with a smile, for the game of it.

Rubber Chicken said:

What do the republicans here think of the latest tax 'plan'?

Seems like sheer lunacy from the outside looking in.....

Click to expand...

Lets say you owned a large company and wanted to spend a billion dollars to open a manufacturing center. Would you rather open your new venture in a place where the government took 40% of your money, or 20%?

This isnt that crazy of a concept, infact this business tax cut puts us more in line with Europe's rates. Denmark is 22%, Finland 20%, Germany 22-32%, Netherlands 20-25%. Even the social democrats over there realize that more reasonable rates help keep businesses in their country

Cannavore said:

the Democrats are firmly right wing on the issues that actually matter - economics, foreign policy, whistle blowers, right on down to things like health care

enough with the commie and socialist talk lol. the furthest left representative the US has is Bernie Sanders who is a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT. he's more in line with Keynesian economics and old school FDR-era liberalism than he is a socialist. the countries Bernie wants to emulate are all kicking our asses, they are libertarian, have free market economies, and aren't authoritarian/dictatorships. naming venezuela (a country who's economy is over 75% privately held btw) and dictators doesn't prove anything other than you guys need to put your heads back in the books and learn a thing or two. the problems with these countries is almost overwhelmingly the AUTHORITARIAN aspects.

when the American overton window on political discourse has drastically shifted to the far far right, guys like Bernie Sanders (if he ran in the UK for example would be more of a moderate than a guy like Corbyn) get called a socialist and communist. shit, even republican legends like Reagan would be considered too soft and liberal for today's ultra far right.

Click to expand...

Taxation is AUTHORITARIAN....

If I do not pay my taxes, armed thugs will come to my home, take everything I own and put me in a cage or kill me if I resist.

How is Socialism/Communism going to work without an Authoritarian leader? If they just ask for my money nicely I'm going to tell them to "get fucked".

Now what book will prove me wrong?

CaptainDankness said:

Taxation is AUTHORITARIAN....

If I do not pay my taxes, armed thugs will come to my home, take everything I own and put me in a cage or kill me if I resist.

Click to expand...

Willie Nelson or Mike Tyson would disagree, and both owed more than you probably would earn in a lifetime.

Who should pay for infrastructure, clean water, civil services, schools, in a modern society ? Everyone except you ?

Fair taxation is a necessary evil.

Bwanabud said:

Fair taxation is a necessary evil.

Click to expand...

The worst truth of all lol.

Our system is so fucking backward it's not funny. The only fair way would be to abolish business and personal taxes and make a sales/consumption tax. That would get the millions of people who work under the table or do black market work pay their fair share. And would also get rid of those loopholes the wealthy use. Obviously, they buy a shit load of stuff so they couldn't get around it. What also burns me is how schools are funded by property taxes. Why should a homeowner without kids pay more of a share of school bills than an apartment renter with 4 kids?

People will say this is regressive, which I suppose technically you could make that case. But it would encourage saving money, and I don't feel like low-income people should pay 0 in taxes- now we have tens of millions of people paying nothing and a small chunk of people paying everything. Even if you are broke you should still contribute.

Bwanabud said:

Willie Nelson or Mike Tyson would disagree, and both owed more than you probably would earn in a lifetime.

Who should pay for infrastructure, clean water, civil services, schools, in a modern society ? Everyone except you ?

Fair taxation is a necessary evil.

Click to expand...

I have my own clean water, city people pay for tap water. Schools well they certainly want more money than they need.

Modern society can pay for themselves, I live on a dirt road on a mountain with no cell phone service, 45 minute drive away from a bus station and a Walmart. Yeah, the government isn't doing much for me. They do plow my road but that's about it for necessary service, though I can do it myself I do have a plow. I can also homeschool my kid, but I have to make money to pay my taxes so fuck homeschooling. Lol

But I was more asking, how can you have, non authoritarian Socialism? You don't threaten me with armed thugs I'm not going to pay taxes, as I don't need government services.

coldcanna said:

The worst truth of all lol.

Our system is so fucking backward it's not funny. The only fair way would be to abolish business and personal taxes and make a sales/consumption tax. That would get the millions of people who work under the table or do black market work pay their fair share. And would also get rid of those loopholes the wealthy use. Obviously, they buy a shit load of stuff so they couldn't get around it. What also burns me is how schools are funded by property taxes. Why should a homeowner without kids pay more of a share of school bills than an apartment renter with 4 kids?

People will say this is regressive, which I suppose technically you could make that case. But it would encourage saving money, and I don't feel like low-income people should pay 0 in taxes- now we have tens of millions of people paying nothing and a small chunk of people paying everything. Even if you are broke you should still contribute.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's another thing I hate about school taxes, I have one child and own my own home. Meanwhile many people have 4+ kids get section 8 housing, a monthly check and food stamps free school lunch on top of that.

Makes no sense, my one child don't cost that much to school.

Bwanabud said:

Willie Nelson or Mike Tyson would disagree, and both owed more than you probably would earn in a lifetime.

Who should pay for infrastructure, clean water, civil services, schools, in a modern society ? Everyone except you ?

Fair taxation is a necessary evil.

Click to expand...

Maybe true. But then the people need to be allowed to audit the system and be able to take some part in choosing where our tax money is spent. I want none of my money spent on the drug war, destroying the enviroment or financing war. Among other things.

coldcanna said:

Lets say you owned a large company and wanted to spend a billion dollars to open a manufacturing center. Would you rather open your new venture in a place where the government took 40% of your money, or 20%?

Click to expand...

this isn't true though. it's what the rich say to con you.

the numbers don't lie;


While the STATUTORY rate for Corporate Tax may look high (even though it's at a near 80 year low) but that's not the EFFECTIVE rate in which corporations actually pay. Our effective corporate tax rate was in line with the rest of the world before Trump bottomed it out.

Before Trumps tax changes, the statutory rate for corporate taxes was around 39%. The effective rate was 20%. Now the statutory rate under Trump is 20%... What's the effective rate going to be? 5%?

This is another huge handout to the elite. The US economic golden age is considered post-ww2. From about 1945 to 1970. Notice how high the corporate tax was during that time period?

This isnt that crazy of a concept, infact this business tax cut puts us more in line with Europe's rates. Denmark is 22%, Finland 20%, Germany 22-32%, Netherlands 20-25%. Even the social democrats over there realize that more reasonable rates help keep businesses in their country

Click to expand...

they also know how to read statistics

CaptainDankness said:

Taxation is AUTHORITARIAN....

Click to expand...

by this definition every modern/civilized country on the planet is authoritarian.

How is Socialism/Communism going to work without an Authoritarian leader? If they just ask for my money nicely I'm going to tell them to "get fucked".

Click to expand...

When you view taxation as socialism or communism I don't think there's any thing I can say to change your mind. So I won't even bother.

This is the source of all problems on our planet ...nothing will ever change unless the serpents head is removed from its body

Except for the VERIFIED fact that the supposed 35% Federal Corporate tax in the U.S. has been undercut by loopholes favoring larger corporations for decades, and few to none of them actually pay that 35%.

When we were trying to repeal Governor Sean Parnell's (Conoco's & Exxon's former attorney; one by contract, and the other as a on-staff attorney) SB21 gifting our oil up here to the Big 3 with ridiculous definitions, the thieves (proven to be thieves in civil and criminal courts over and over throughout the 40+ years they've screwed us up here), the Big 3 (Conoco, Exxon and BP, with BP being the real Mafioso thugs of the oil patch), they kept sniveling about their 35% Federal Corporate taxes, and including that in all of their debates.

The GAO and Dept of Interior did some calculations; the three actually paid between 0% and 11% in federal corporate taxes after manipulating loop holes.. including applying losses from other fields in other states or countries to OUR fields.

You think the federal gov is more than adept at lying and broadcasting untruths? You should see some of BP's internal memos re. Alaska's oil and revenues that we were made privy to, as opposed to the PR and bullshit they put on the air with $20 million in ad money that year....

And in my districts, in the Interior, we kicked their asses in 5 out of 6, nearly taking the 6th (where the then-oil refinery was located), with just over $10,000 in cash, up against their $20 million, simply by having facts and knowing what the fuck we were talking about. An unusual outcome in the U.S. where in about 94% of elections, the folks who spend the most money win.

In the end, they DID win State-wide, because the oil patch workers on the Hillside areas in Los Anchorage and in Nikiski swallowed their BS, and robbed themselves and the State in the long run, in exchange for short-term -personal- profits.

And we had many of THEIR workers on OUR teams. Folks who knew the real deal from INSIDE.

The Big 3 continued throughout the campaign to say that even if they got our oil more cheaply than it was worth, it was "About the jobs."

I asked one of their pawns if I could have his house at half of tax-assessed value if I promised to pay him $15/hour to come in and clean up my slop? He got a bit quiet.

At my booth I talked with many a newbie who'd been hired abruptly by the Big 3. My advice to them? Don't sign any heavy loan notes, because right now you're nothing but PR props for these lying, thieving bastages, and when this campaign is over, one way or another, they'll fire you post haste.

As soon as they won the referendum, with oil still at over $80-/barrel, they all laid off over 10% of their North Slope work force. And the cost for hiring those 'stooges and stage props' was not included in that $20 million they had spent on ads in the end.

America needs to do some real research and stop swallowing corporate PR in the name of quasi-libertarian lip service and hollow philosophy that's being manipulated by folks who lacked a soul from the fucking day they were born.

And the arms-producers with sweetheart mega-inflated deals, and the Wall Streeters, are at least as shallow and manipulative. We've gone up against some of them too.

The sooner those burning barricades turn into guillotines in public square, the better.

coldcanna said:

Lets say you owned a large company and wanted to spend a billion dollars to open a manufacturing center. Would you rather open your new venture in a place where the government took 40% of your money, or 20%?

This isnt that crazy of a concept, infact this business tax cut puts us more in line with Europe's rates. Denmark is 22%, Finland 20%, Germany 22-32%, Netherlands 20-25%. Even the social democrats over there realize that more reasonable rates help keep businesses in their country

Click to expand...

CaptainDankness said:

I have my own clean water, city people pay for tap water. Schools well they certainly want more money than they need.

Modern society can pay for themselves, I live on a dirt road on a mountain with no cell phone service, 45 minute drive away from a bus station and a Walmart. Yeah, the government isn't doing much for me. They do plow my road but that's about it for necessary service, though I can do it myself I do have a plow.

I can also homeschool my kid, but I have to make money to pay my taxes so fuck homeschooling. Lol

But I was more asking, how can you have, non authoritarian Socialism? You don't threaten me with armed thugs I'm not going to pay taxes, as I don't need government services.

Click to expand...

It appears you were born in the wrong century, but moving deep into the Yukon may provide what you desire...although brown bears eat humans for fun.

You may say you don't "need" government services, but yet enjoy the freedoms and protection of said Military and security...otherwise you'd have been speaking Russian many years ago.

bigtacofarmer said:

Maybe true. But then the people need to be allowed to audit the system and be able to take some part in choosing where our tax money is spent. I want none of my money spent on the drug war, destroying the enviroment or financing war. Among other things.

Click to expand...

VOTE, that invokes the freedom to be proactive.