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Old 04-13-2012, 05:56 PM #11
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Most of what you are paying for is water (shipping/freight) a plastic bottle and fancy label.

You can buy salts and mix your own.

Everyone ive seen who uses Jacks has no problems and some of the healthiest plants.

I just ordered some and I am about to do my first grow with them.

Check Delta9s ppk in my signature, or even check out his gallery because the thread is about 200 pages long, he just posted a TW nug shot that is SOOO frosty, and he feeds at 600 ppm with no boosters.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:34 PM #12
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@-squarepush3r -I am aware that the ingredients in liquid based nutrients are NOT just salts added to water. I think this is where the problem starts with these Greenleaf products. You need to understand the processes involved in making a solution. You can not just mix the basic salts together and call it "the same" or even close because it is not.

And just a FYI bro, House & Garden products are not even on the same PLANET as Greenleaf copy stuff.......to even attempt and compare them to greenleaf is freakin INSANITY!!! House and Garden is in another class of its own from most other competing products

What we found was that the greenleaf formula products we tested ONLY contained basic salts and even some of those are missing and in the wrong ratio, or wrong form, and especially the stuff being sold as a bud candy copy. Wow, that stuff is about the farthest thing from what the real bud candy contains. I think who ever made this stuff does NOT understand a lot about how nutrients are made. I think the bud candy copy actually contains things you would buy at a grocery store! LOL!

The stuff sold as a Bud Candy copy and also the Cal/Mag copy product was probably the worst two out of what we tried. The cal/mag copy especially caused some major issues and we even had to totally scrap one of the test bed we were using. The Cal/mag is missing bicarbonates and nitrate nitrogen among other things which is the heart and soul of a cal/mag product and also what makes cal/mag supplementing help the ph to be stable.

I think greenleaf also does not comprehend the fact that not all ingredients are listed on the label and also not listed on the label is lots of other very important information. It seems greenleaf confuses the "derived from" section of the label with something else.

We did not test most of there products because frankly it was not even worth the cost of the water needed to run the test (we use RO water that is considered to be of hospital grade, 0PPM and 7.0pH). There was just no reason to continue testing due to what we found already in what we did test which was, the Hammer Head copy, the cal/mag copy, and the bud candy copy and the one part grow formula. We assumed the rest of the products would be near the same.

I also found whoever is running or making this stuff is rather rude and does not even have a basic understanding of nutrients for plants. If I were to rate the customer service from Greenleaf I would say it is non existent!

It is a great concept and I hope one day someone takes the time and money to do something like this but properly. Much homework would need to be done and you have to reverse engineer the product your trying to copy. There are some big companies out there that sell and do not make there own formulations. This is because of cost. Even General Hydroponics which is a HUGE company that has been around forever does not make half the stuff they sell. They are just now in the past few years starting to invest the MONEY in the facility to make there own products.

Making a quality nutrient product cost MONEY. You can not just mix some basics salts together and call it a "copy" of the parent product. This seems to be all that Greenleaf has even tried to do.

I would not recommend anyone waste your money on these Greenleaf products as it is just not worth it. If you want to deal with powders there are several QUALITY powders available. Jack's and Veg+Bloom to name two.
BioMaster

I think you have a vast misunderstanding on how nutrients work and on what constitutes nutrient products. Unfortunately, compounded with your vast misunderstanding (which isn't itself a bad flaw or trait), you seem to have not only a sharp tongue, but be keen on spreading misinformation, either due to ignorance or malicious intent. This I do believe is a character flaw you possess.

I find it quite amusing that you keep mentioning how quality Cal Mag products should have "bicarbonates," (what, really?) and that Jack's and Veg+Bloom have quality products are not just "salts mixed together." Also, I am glad that you have publicly stated your stance that way it makes it much easier for the very knowledgeable people on these forums, one of which who is not you, to eventually just disregard the posts you make. Jack's and Veg+Bloom (and Advanced Nutrients and all synthetic nutrients) are just nutrient salts mixed together, thats exactly what they are, there isn't a magic wand that Fat Mike at Advanced Nutrients taps on his bottles to make them and runs a circle around them to make the "professional."


I will gladly eat my shoe if I am proven wrong, which is more than you can do since you seem to not even be able to take off your earmuff's to learn a bit of real information surrounded by many knowledgable people in this forum, such as YosemiteSam. I hardly take you for an expert however BioMaster, since I've seen your posts on another grow forum (different username) among this one, and you literally are asking questions such as "what is Calcium Nitrate?" which is the most basic of hydroponics nutrients and shows your inexperience pretty clearly.

Finally, I do work with Greenleaf as disclosure so people know, which I have stated on these forums before, and what I find even more hilarious is that Greenleaf contracts with major fertilizer companies to manufacture parts or many of their products, one of which in the past has been JR Peter's, which makes Jack's Professional. So it was a real blast reading how Greenleaf's products suck, but JR Peter's is high quality.


Lowman, I don't know why you are so mad, but it was clear from your email that you misunderstood the dosage instructions and dosed far too high a dosage increasing your EC by 1. I though we were clear in explaining this, and we tried to be as gentle as possible since the instructions are pretty clear on the label if you followed them, and I wasn't sure if maybe your eyesight was bad or were dyslexic or something else along those lines, so we were trying to help you very gently.

Anyways, if you don't want to use our products, fine by me, there are many other options.
Jack's Professional: Probably the lowest cost option and good if you know how to manipulate it
Greenleaf: Higher cost than Jack's, but mush more customizable with almost 40 products premade
Dyna Gro: Probably a good option for people who prefer liquids and low cost formula
Veg+Bloom: Higher cost than Greenleaf and almost on par with Advanced Nutrients prices, 1 part veg and bloom formula is a myth, wrong NPK ratio's for that, they simply using a bloom only formula and get by on the fact that you can 'get by' in veg using a bloom formula, assuming that you probably wont veg for longer than 2 weeks or that everyone does sea of green method. Also, mystery ingredients? Other than that, its a very solid blooming formula as long as you are careful mixing to prevent Calcium Sulfate creation.
Any other liquid formula: Sure, if you are making enough money from Cannabis then the costs of these aren't very significant.

anyways, hate all you want, its your free speech or whatever, but if you try to spread misinformation I will call you out lol
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:30 PM #13
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ROFL.....uhh..OK. Keep trying to tell yourself that you understand when clearly you do not and it is also clear you do not know much about nutrients.....oh wait forgot...it is me that doesnt know...got it....ROFL!! An the other "angry" guy, he apparently does not even know how to measure a dosage either right??? And you cant understand why he is angry???? Guess we are just all idiots except for you??? What a joke.

Someone asked what I thought about these products so I told them...then YOU asked for me to elaborate, and I did. You get confused easy it seems....lol
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:23 PM #14
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The bud candy knock-off is not a good product. I tried it at less than half the recommended dose and it almost doubled my EC. Even at 1/4 strength, it burned the leaf tips immediately. I received a very vague reply to my email...didn't address the issue at all. I was gonna stay out of this thread, but I guess I won't. So there's my experience.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:52 PM #15
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Squarepush3r-1 part veg and bloom formula is a myth, wrong NPK ratio's for that, they simply using a bloom only formula and get by on the fact that you can 'get by' in veg using a bloom formula, assuming that you probably wont veg for longer than 2 weeks or that everyone does sea of green method. Also, mystery ingredients? Other than that, its a very solid blooming formula as long as you are careful mixing to prevent Calcium Sulfate creation.


you might be right... it is in fact expensive... and most of it sticks to the bottom of my bucket( white and sticky flakes) I need to use way more than they recommend to get heathy plants.... a little too green at finish even after a long flush...cant touch the same strain grown with pbp
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:42 AM #16
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I would not waste your breath dramamine.....nice nick BTW.... I like it. He will just come back and say you are a idiot or some other BS if you say anything negative about the product....that bud candy copy is not even a product really...
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:10 AM #17
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I would not waste your breath dramamine.....nice nick BTW.... I like it. He will just come back and say you are a idiot or some other BS if you say anything negative about the product....that bud candy copy is not even a product really...
I'm welcome to criticism and feedback, but Biomaster you never answered any of the questions or criticisms you made. You seem like a nice person and I hope you are well intentioned, but I'm just trying to set the record straight on some misconceptions that may be in the air
Specifically "bicarbonate" being a foundation for Cal Mag products, and also nutrients "not being just salts".
-Considering that this is the cornerstone of your criticisms of Greenleaf Nutrients products, I suggest you focus on defending both of those points, since I can confidently say they are both false assumptions.


Dramamine, what happens on certain products, is once they are powders, finding out exactly how little nutrients they contain is a little embarrassing to ship out a product equivalent being so small. So for very few products, we include extra product as a better value for the customer. I am surprise people find this an issue, as for your specific problem about Sweet Candy, I don't remember receiving any complaints about it. If you want to try writing to customer service again I'm sure they will get it resolved in a specific issue with details given. You say that 1/4 dosage burned your plants? That's .4 grams per gallon, also its an all organic product so I am not sure but I think its rare to get nutrient burn with an organic product, its more of an issue with synthetics. Its possible it was burn, but it could also be something else. Would have like to heard some feedback from you, as I don't recall anyone with any problems like this. You are welcome to email to resolve this issue again.

Finally, all of the products have money back guarantee, if anyone isn't happy they can get a full refund, so for a few people in this thread who are unhappy, I haven't heard anyone asking for a refund?


edit: for those curious, here is the label for Sweet Candy
https://greenleafnutrients.com/PDF/SweetCandy.pdf

It uses very high quality ingredients, actually I think better than AN because we don't use dextrose or glucose, but instead organic sugar extracts which have the highest nutrient and trace mineral content. It appears it just may be in higher concentrations than equivalent products because we feel that the ingredients are so low cost, that it would be robbery to offer less for the cost. Bottles nutrients can get away with it since they sell you a bottle of water + powder, so it appears that you are getting something significant that weighs a few pounds, but try sending someone straight powder, charging them $20 for only 70 grams use to make the concentrate, and they know they have been taken. This is the cornerstone of liquid nutrient business, fooling people into thinking they got "a lot" of product, when its basically a jug of water + nutrients. Go to Home Depot and try to find their 'liquid' nutrient section, it will be minimal or non-existent. Maybe a better approach for the future is for Greenleaf to lower their PPM and cost at the same time. This way people won't complain about getting too high EC and can pay less money as well.

The most budget concerned consumers could just buy Blackstrap Molasses, and get a similar results, but our product also has 18 L grade amino acids, B Vitamin and plant extracts, as well as potassium, magnesium and sulfur source (all organic).
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:44 AM #18
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I have a question, Is the label guaranteed analysis for the dry powder or is it for the liquid concentrate after you add the powder to your water?
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:28 AM #19
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Dramamine, what happens on certain products, is once they are powders, finding out exactly how little nutrients they contain is a little embarrassing to ship out a product equivalent being so small. So for very few products, we include extra product as a better value for the customer. I am surprise people find this an issue.
This doesn't make sense. Your saying that the powder is more concentrated than the liquid stuff? Hard to argue that one... Or are you saying that your dilution instructions aren't accurate and this is why it was so salty? Like I said, it was a very small dose. It pushed the EC quite a bit.
What I'm saying is I mixed it by weight, so your response is moot.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:04 PM #20
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Like I said dramamine, dont waste your time or breath. This cat thinks he knows more than anyone else and we are all just idiots....ROFL!! Clearly he does not even have a BASIC understanding....AT ALL!! He certainly does not even have a clue what carbonates or bicarbonates are or there function. But I am sure he will be glad to fill us in with his EXPERT knowledge...ROFL!!


I am glad this guy thinks I am a nice person now....LOL!! Before he posted I had some characters flaws...LOL!!
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