Originally Posted by TheBioMaster
@-squarepush3r -I am aware that the ingredients in liquid based nutrients are NOT just salts added to water. I think this is where the problem starts with these Greenleaf products. You need to understand the processes involved in making a solution. You can not just mix the basic salts together and call it "the same" or even close because it is not.
And just a FYI bro, House & Garden products are not even on the same PLANET as Greenleaf copy stuff.......to even attempt and compare them to greenleaf is freakin INSANITY!!! House and Garden is in another class of its own from most other competing products
What we found was that the greenleaf formula products we tested ONLY contained basic salts and even some of those are missing and in the wrong ratio, or wrong form, and especially the stuff being sold as a bud candy copy. Wow, that stuff is about the farthest thing from what the real bud candy contains. I think who ever made this stuff does NOT understand a lot about how nutrients are made. I think the bud candy copy actually contains things you would buy at a grocery store! LOL!
The stuff sold as a Bud Candy copy and also the Cal/Mag copy product was probably the worst two out of what we tried. The cal/mag copy especially caused some major issues and we even had to totally scrap one of the test bed we were using. The Cal/mag is missing bicarbonates and nitrate nitrogen among other things which is the heart and soul of a cal/mag product and also what makes cal/mag supplementing help the ph to be stable.
I think greenleaf also does not comprehend the fact that not all ingredients are listed on the label and also not listed on the label is lots of other very important information. It seems greenleaf confuses the "derived from" section of the label with something else.
We did not test most of there products because frankly it was not even worth the cost of the water needed to run the test (we use RO water that is considered to be of hospital grade, 0PPM and 7.0pH). There was just no reason to continue testing due to what we found already in what we did test which was, the Hammer Head copy, the cal/mag copy, and the bud candy copy and the one part grow formula. We assumed the rest of the products would be near the same.
I also found whoever is running or making this stuff is rather rude and does not even have a basic understanding of nutrients for plants. If I were to rate the customer service from Greenleaf I would say it is non existent!
It is a great concept and I hope one day someone takes the time and money to do something like this but properly. Much homework would need to be done and you have to reverse engineer the product your trying to copy. There are some big companies out there that sell and do not make there own formulations. This is because of cost. Even General Hydroponics which is a HUGE company that has been around forever does not make half the stuff they sell. They are just now in the past few years starting to invest the MONEY in the facility to make there own products.
Making a quality nutrient product cost MONEY. You can not just mix some basics salts together and call it a "copy" of the parent product. This seems to be all that Greenleaf has even tried to do.
I would not recommend anyone waste your money on these Greenleaf products as it is just not worth it. If you want to deal with powders there are several QUALITY powders available. Jack's and Veg+Bloom to name two.
I think you have a vast misunderstanding on how nutrients work and on what constitutes nutrient products. Unfortunately, compounded with your vast misunderstanding (which isn't itself a bad flaw or trait), you seem to have not only a sharp tongue, but be keen on spreading misinformation
, either due to ignorance or malicious intent. This I do believe is a character flaw you possess.
I find it quite amusing that you keep mentioning how quality Cal Mag products should have "bicarbonates," (what, really?) and that Jack's and Veg+Bloom have quality products are not just "salts mixed together." Also, I am glad that you have publicly stated your stance that way it makes it much easier for the very knowledgeable people on these forums, one of which who is not you, to eventually just disregard the posts you make. Jack's and Veg+Bloom (and Advanced Nutrients and all synthetic nutrients) are just nutrient salts mixed together, thats exactly what they are, there isn't a magic wand that Fat Mike at Advanced Nutrients taps on his bottles to make them and runs a circle around them to make the "professional."
I will gladly eat my shoe if I am proven wrong, which is more than you can do since you seem to not even be able to take off your earmuff's to learn a bit of real information surrounded by many knowledgable people in this forum, such as YosemiteSam. I hardly take you for an expert however BioMaster, since I've seen your posts on another grow forum (different username) among this one, and you literally are asking questions such as "what is Calcium Nitrate?" which is the most basic of hydroponics nutrients and shows your inexperience pretty clearly.
Finally, I do work with Greenleaf as disclosure so people know, which I have stated on these forums before, and what I find even more hilarious is that Greenleaf contracts with major fertilizer companies to manufacture parts or many of their products, one of which in the past has been JR Peter's, which makes Jack's Professional.
So it was a real blast reading how Greenleaf's products suck, but JR Peter's is high quality.
Lowman, I don't know why you are so mad, but it was clear from your email that you misunderstood the dosage instructions and dosed far too high a dosage increasing your EC by 1. I though we were clear in explaining this, and we tried to be as gentle as possible since the instructions are pretty clear on the label if you followed them, and I wasn't sure if maybe your eyesight was bad or were dyslexic or something else along those lines, so we were trying to help you very gently.
Anyways, if you don't want to use our products, fine by me, there are many other options.
Jack's Professional: Probably the lowest cost option and good if you know how to manipulate it
Greenleaf: Higher cost than Jack's, but mush more customizable with almost 40 products premade
Dyna Gro: Probably a good option for people who prefer liquids and low cost formula
Veg+Bloom: Higher cost than Greenleaf and almost on par with Advanced Nutrients prices, 1 part veg and bloom formula is a myth, wrong NPK ratio's for that, they simply using a bloom only formula and get by on the fact that you can 'get by' in veg using a bloom formula, assuming that you probably wont veg for longer than 2 weeks or that everyone does sea of green method. Also, mystery ingredients? Other than that, its a very solid blooming formula as long as you are careful mixing to prevent Calcium Sulfate creation.
Any other liquid formula: Sure, if you are making enough money from Cannabis then the costs of these aren't very significant.
anyways, hate all you want, its your free speech or whatever, but if you try to spread misinformation I will call you out lol