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neem soil drench??

D

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
IMO, so many people use Neem Oil and/or Neem Cake/Seed Meal thinking it contains significant levels of Azadirachtin. They do not, rather we are discussing three or more different "active ingredients":

  • Azadirachtin OPP Chemical Code: 121701 (CAS # 11141-17-6)--derived from Neem Oil and is found to be an insect growth regulator, interfering with the normal life cycle of insects, including feeding, molting, mating, and egg laying. It can be a feeding deterrent in some insects.
  • Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil OPP Chemical Code: 25007 (CAS # 8002-65-1)--derived from Neem Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Azadirachtin and other is extracted. The oil is known to be an insect repellant (unlike azadirachtin) is active against fungal diseases such as mildews and rusts.
  • Neem Seed Meal/Cake--derived from Need Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Neem Oil is extracted. Neem Cake is an excellent fertilizer rich in both macro and micro nutrients that also improves fertility and inhibits nitrification by soil bacteria.
Azadirachtin and Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil are derived from the natural oil found
in seeds of the neem tree, Azadirachta indica A.Juss, which is native to arid regions of India. The
ability of the oil to repel pests has been known for thousands of years; the oil also has been used
on skin and medicinally. When the natural neem oil is removed from the seeds and treated with
alcohol, virtually all of the azadirachtin and related substances separate from the oil itself. The
remaining oil - without the azadirachtin - is called Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil.
Azadirachtin acts in the following ways: It deters certain insects, such as locusts, from feeding
and it interferes with the normal life cycle of insects, including feeding, molting, mating, and egg
laying.
Click to expand...

So, ask yourself:

What pest/condition are you treating?

What active ingredient are you seeking...and is it included in the selected product?

Why would a gardener use horticultural oil (normally applied as a foliar spray) as a soil drench?

Are you using Neem Cake/Seed Meal or Neem Oil and foolishly believing they contain significant levels of Azadirachtin?
 
Douglas.Curtis

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
DocTim420 said:
Are you using Neem Cake/Seed Meal or Neem Oil and foolishly believing they contain significant levels of Azadirachtin?
Click to expand...
Actually, neem seed meal can be applied heavily enough for cannabis to absorb enough azadirachtin to cause CHS symptoms. I've had several examples PM'd to me now. So there's definitely aza left over in neem seed cake/meal. Vegetables are not hyper/dynamic accumulator plants, so using it will be non-effective as an insect deterrent for them.
 
Americangrower

Americangrower

Active member
Veteran
DocTim420 said:
IMO, so many people use Neem Oil and/or Neem Cake/Seed Meal thinking it contains significant levels of Azadirachtin. They do not, rather we are discussing three or more different "active ingredients":

  • Azadirachtin OPP Chemical Code: 121701 (CAS # 11141-17-6)--derived from Neem Oil and is found to be an insect growth regulator, interfering with the normal life cycle of insects, including feeding, molting, mating, and egg laying. It can be a feeding deterrent in some insects.
  • Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil OPP Chemical Code: 25007 (CAS # 8002-65-1)--derived from Neem Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Azadirachtin and other is extracted. The oil is known to be an insect repellant (unlike azadirachtin) is active against fungal diseases such as mildews and rusts.
  • Neem Seed Meal/Cake--derived from Need Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Neem Oil is extracted. Neem Cake is an excellent fertilizer rich in both macro and micro nutrients that also improves fertility and inhibits nitrification by soil bacteria.


So, ask yourself:

What pest/condition are you treating?

What active ingredient are you seeking...and is it included in the selected product?

Why would a gardener use horticultural oil (normally applied as a foliar spray) as a soil drench?

Are you using Neem Cake/Seed Meal or Neem Oil and foolishly believing they contain significant levels of Azadirachtin?
Click to expand...

Wow great info.. I use a 70%
Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of neem as spray and in soil plants seem to love it
 
ozzieAI

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
DocTim420 said:
IMO, so many people use Neem Oil and/or Neem Cake/Seed Meal thinking it contains significant levels of Azadirachtin. They do not, rather we are discussing three or more different "active ingredients":

  • Azadirachtin OPP Chemical Code: 121701 (CAS # 11141-17-6)--derived from Neem Oil and is found to be an insect growth regulator, interfering with the normal life cycle of insects, including feeding, molting, mating, and egg laying. It can be a feeding deterrent in some insects.
  • Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil OPP Chemical Code: 25007 (CAS # 8002-65-1)--derived from Neem Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Azadirachtin and other is extracted. The oil is known to be an insect repellant (unlike azadirachtin) is active against fungal diseases such as mildews and rusts.
  • Neem Seed Meal/Cake--derived from Need Seed and is the "left over" byproduct after Neem Oil is extracted. Neem Cake is an excellent fertilizer rich in both macro and micro nutrients that also improves fertility and inhibits nitrification by soil bacteria.


So, ask yourself:

What pest/condition are you treating?

What active ingredient are you seeking...and is it included in the selected product?

Why would a gardener use horticultural oil (normally applied as a foliar spray) as a soil drench?

Are you using Neem Cake/Seed Meal or Neem Oil and foolishly believing they contain significant levels of Azadirachtin?
Click to expand...

here is a thread i wrote on this topic a while back:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=267654
 
D

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Douglas.Curtis said:
Actually, neem seed meal can be applied heavily enough for cannabis to absorb enough azadirachtin to cause CHS symptoms. I've had several examples PM'd to me now. So there's definitely aza left over in neem seed cake/meal. Vegetables are not hyper/dynamic accumulator plants, so using it will be non-effective as an insect deterrent for them.
Click to expand...

I imagine the amount of Azadirachtin to effect CHS Syndrome is rather minute--I recall reading studies where as little as 1 ppm of Azadirachtin can repel certain insects.

With that in mind, I believe most Seed/Cake Meals rarely exceed 1000 ppm and most Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oils are about twice that (500 ppm). Sounds a lot, but 1.2% Azatrol converts to 12,000 ppm.

Seems nothing in nature is without a consequence--most of us that stayed awake in high school health/chemistry class know that radium and polonium are carcinogenic and no bueno. Hmmm, guess which radioactive elements are in also found in granite rock dusts and organic sourced phosphorous fertilizers? Like cannabis, tobacco is also a heavy metal accumulator--hence the multitude of studies about polonium-210 in cigarettes.

Just google: tobacco polonium

Then for "shock value", substitute the words "cannabis" where you read "tobacco".
 
OregonBorn

OregonBorn

Active member
DocTim420 said:
Why would a gardener use horticultural oil (normally applied as a foliar spray) as a soil drench?
Click to expand...

I dunno why. I do not use ag oil as a drench. I use ag oil as a contact foliar spray only. I use Raw unrefined Neem oil mixed with a surfactant as a drench and as a foliar/systemic spray for mites, aphids, thrips and whitefly, as well as to get rid of PM on Cannabis. I also use Raw neem on my bamboos to kill and prevent bamboo spider mites, a huge problem in the PNW. I also use raw Neem as a soil drench to get rid of soil nematodes, a huge issue here in the US west with strawberries, garlic and daffodils.

Of course raw unrefined neem was not on your list... and it does contain aza.
 
Last edited:
Drewsif

Drewsif

Member
Mick said:
Some people drink neem as a preventative for malaria and dengue. In India it's called the Village Pharmacy.
Click to expand...


In India, birth defects are rather common. Shiva had 6 arms for crying out loud. Too much Neem curry.

Neem bud isn't HORRIBLE to smoke. It just ruins the flavor, which in turn kills the buzz. And effects your reproductive organs. No biggie.
 
OregonBorn

OregonBorn

Active member
Well, if y'all think that Neem and Aza are so bad, do not eat any organic produce grown in the US or Europe, where they are used in Uuge quantities. Uuge is Donald Trump for "huge". Or as they say in Oz, 'heaps'.
 
D

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Something to think about--Neem oil/cake introduced in the grow medium does act as a fungicide and nematicide. If one is adding fungal based products (mycorrhizae) or beneficial nematodes--and then adding neem oil/cake to the grow medium, I wonder which will prevail? Todes, mychs or Azadirachta. Hmm, good question with no answers (thus far).
 
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