I want your thoughts-Hermi's

wdcf · Jan 18, 2020

I have just under two decades of experience. The vast majority of it in dirt. I am going to leave my ego and biases at the door to get your thoughts on the following issue.

I recently invested in a Canadian Licensed Producer. By all accounts their product's quality is top tier. Recently, I came across a review, which stated there were a couple seeds found in the flower. The reviewer reiterated the the great quality, and simply stated he observed a few seeds in the flower.

I emailed the CEO to inform him of the review. Nothing hostile, the CEO is a great and approachable individual. He informed me he was aware of the review and stated-
"A lot of unique / exotic strains will have these types of issues. We will be tissue culturing our genetics real soon, that should really strengthen them and clean up any potential hermi’ing."

What are your thoughts on his statement? Thanks.

superpedro · Jan 18, 2020

I´ve been working with in vitro cloning before on aqarium plants. News to me.

In my experience, it is really just to be viewed as very small clones. You take meristem tissue from a growtip. Clean it up. Put it in an "all inclusive" agar formula, feeding the cells the same thing the plant would(sugars and elements).
Then you grow a petri dish full of miniature clones.

The real difficulty is making and keeping it sterile. Otherwise it would be great for making clones and storing genetics using little space and energy on lighting for amateurs.

I could be missing something, as my experience is "hand on" and years back, but i cant imagine how that helps on hermie issues.

Sam_Skunkman · Jan 18, 2020

Will not help remove Intersex plants, intersex is caused by genes, that produce plants that are either always intersex or require a stress to get the plant to express intersex. Unless the genes are removed or made non-functional they will continue to express intersex.
And as no one has identified the genes responsible it is hard to remove or make them non-functional, intersex can be bred out but that will also alter the plants produced from the altered seeds.
I do look forward to a DNA test or tests that allow finding intersex plants from seeds without having to grow out the plant to maturity.
We have DNA tests that can find Males, and by default find Females, but even if not a male and presumed to be Female the Females can have intersex traits and there is no DNA tests for that.
Right now you can find Males, and if not a Male presume it is a Female, but even if the Female is a total intersex expression while flowering, when DNA tested it tests as a Female.

-SamS

@hempy · Jan 18, 2020

Tissue culture is used to clean a plant of plant diseases and make clones from small plant material so useful for large commercial grows.

JetLife175 · Jan 18, 2020

Yeah. You can’t clean out an intersex trait simply by doing TC. If that was the case I feel TC would be a lot more prevalent in the scene already.

cr0n · Jan 18, 2020

I have been told TC helps with rejuvenation of tired old cuts as well.

wdcf · Jan 18, 2020

Fantastic. I appreciate everyone's comments.
Now the big reveal... What I took issue with was him saying

"A lot of unique / exotic strains will have these types of issues." (Referencing hermis)

To me that just sounded like an excuse to why his hermi'd

Anyone else?

Mr. J · Jan 18, 2020

I'm sorry but licenced producers aren't producing quality product. That's reflected by the fact that nobody wants to buy it. I'd advise you to get your money out while there's still money there because that stock is headed to $0. Your guy is an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. He just needs your money.

Bud Jones · Jan 18, 2020

All cannabis has the ability to rodelize .. Varying amounts of stress can make anything hermie ..

Rocky Mtn Squid · Jan 18, 2020

LP Weed Is Garbage

LP Weed Is Garbage

IMHO, for the record, I have never seen and/or sampled ANY LP weed that I would give my seal of approval.

It's over priced ridiculously taxed garbage, and for the most part, the strains are fugazi.

Would you mind telling me the name of the LP that you are communicating with ?

Inquiring minds need to know.

RMS

:smoweed:

Railage · Jan 18, 2020

Tell that dude to pheno hunt some that aren’t herming out?

CannaRed · Jan 18, 2020

Sam_Skunkman said:
Will not help remove Intersex plants, intersex is caused by genes, that produce plants that are either always intersex or require a stress to get the plant to express intersex. Unless the genes are removed or made non-functional they will continue to express intersex.
And as no one has identified the genes responsible it is hard to remove or make them non-functional, intersex can be bred out but that will also alter the plants produced from the altered seeds.
I do look forward to a DNA test or tests that allow finding intersex plants from seeds without having to grow out the plant to maturity.
We have DNA tests that can find Males, and by default find Females, but even if not a male and presumed to be Female the Females can have intersex traits and there is no DNA tests for that.
Right now you can find Males, and if not a Male presume it is a Female, but even if the Female is a total intersex expression while flowering, when DNA tested it tests as a Female.

-SamS

Hey Sam,
The plants that test positive for males- can they still be intersex? Or only the plants that tested negative for male?

Sam_Skunkman · Jan 19, 2020

CannaRed said:
Hey Sam,
The plants that test positive for males- can they still be intersex? Or only the plants that tested negative for male?

Yes, both males that DNA test as Males and Females that do not DNA test as males can be intersex Females.
Just because a plant is by DNA testing a particular sex does not mean it will not express intersex. Sex expression is not the same as DNA sex typing. This is not normally a big problem with Males, but with females it can be. Test a monoecious hemp variety and they test as female even though they have both sexes flowers, although mostly Female.

A negative DNA test for male means female, but not intersex free, that can only be confirmed by stress-testing a female clone with every form of stress-testing that there is. Photoperiod stress is mearly the most common.

-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · Jan 19, 2020

Bud Jones said:
All cannabis has the ability to rodelize .. Varying amounts of stress can make anything hermie ..

Not true, I have and have seen female plants that will not express intersex no matter what stress they are given, I always stress test any female before I used it for breeding. If you can't eliminate the intersex you can easily reduce the incidence. I have found a few that did make a male flower or two but the male flowers was not functional and did not drop pollen, some had zero pollen, some were non-functional like with sticky pollen that could be used to hand pollinate with a Q-tip but did not release pollen themselves.

I had a list of Stress tests but can not find it.
So I borrowed this from Douglas.Curtis in his STS thread
Non-Hermaphrodite Plants Begin With the Parents
Stress testing your female plants is essential to removing breeding plants with hermaphroditic tendencies. Even if you're **not** using feminized pollen, breeding with unstable parents can produce hermaphroditic seeds. It's extremely important to expose your potential parents to the stresses most commonly known to trigger hermaphroditic flower production. These include, but are not limited to, the following stresses:
* Inconsistent Light Schedules or unusual like 24 hours then 12
* Pinhole Light Leaks During Flowering
* Excess or Extreme Changes in Temperature
* Bound Roots
* pH too Low/High
* Lighting Spectrum Change
* Media Excessively Wet/Dry
* Excessive Supercropping/Heavy-Trimming
* Root Pruning
* Proximity to Sessions (just making sure you're reading. lol)
* Over/Under Feeding
* Incorrect Nutrient Profile
* Insects/Disease/Fungi
* Pesticide/Chemical Exposure
* Extended Flowering Time

-SamS

JetLife175 · Jan 19, 2020

wdcf said:
Fantastic. I appreciate everyone's comments.
Now the big reveal... What I took issue with was him saying

"A lot of unique / exotic strains will have these types of issues." (Referencing hermis)

To me that just sounded like an excuse to why his hermi'd

Anyone else?

It’s true from my experience.

If you don’t mind me asking. What are you guys running?

zif · Jan 19, 2020

Sam_Skunkman said:
Test a monoecious hemp variety and they test as female even though they have both sexes flowers, although mostly Female.

I'm really curious about how this could be the case in hemp.

Do you think the reversion to dioecy that people observe is strictly due to pollen contamination?

Sam_Skunkman said:
All monoecious varieties are man made require yearly maintenance or they will revert to dioecious with more and more real males each generation.
-SamS

Or are they just mainly XX, with some lingering percentage of XY?

Any thoughts on what selection pressure led to the XX populations in the first place? If it was something like uniformity and early ripening, I would have guessed that'd select intersex XY populations. Does selection for fiber quality drive the XX predominance?

CannaZen · Jan 19, 2020

So close to 70,000 lines.

meizzwang · Jan 19, 2020

I'm not sure if this is always true, but my most stable females were the most difficult to turn when spraying with STS, and the easiest ones to produce male flowers were the most hermi prone.

If you breed with a hermi prone landrace and select only for the quality of the product without stress testing, for sure, new, unique varieties can be more hermi prone.

englishrick · Jan 19, 2020

I believe there is no confirmation of hermaphrodite inderviduals in the cannabis we smoke,,, before polyhybrids we started with large amounts of Bio diversity,, we caused the lines to have only have active sex chromozones,, some inderviduals in the old lines had inactive sex chromozones,, these are still dio lines,, the word hermaphrodite doesn't seem to apply here,, it's all dio just a selection of active and inactive sex chromozones,, the inderviduals with inactive sex chromozones have there sexual expressions modified by autosomes

CannaZen · Jan 19, 2020

that's a negATIVE affirmative correct. You can really tell it a apical seed plant free plants show. plants been bred multiple generations inbred.

I want your thoughts-Hermi's

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