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Old 02-24-2008, 10:04 PM #41
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OT1 Haze is not the real Original Haze. This was stated by OT1 himself many years ago now.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:36 PM #42
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OT1 Haze is not the real Original Haze. This was stated by OT1 himself many years ago now.
Thx AS! Anyone know the full story? It's relationship to the original?
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:40 PM #43
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ACE'S OT-1 HAZE description
Here's the official description:

Genetics: 100% sativa. Hybrid of different tropical sativas: Mexican, Purple Highland Colombian, Southern Indian (Kerala) and Thai.

The Haze was developed in California in the 1960s and 70s by crossing some of the best tropical sativas which had been imported during that period. Its exact genotype remains unknown, but it is probably a hybrid of different sativas from Mexico, Southern India, Colombia and Thailand, the two latter being the most dominant in the final hybrid.

This mythical sativa, which has been the starting point for the development of the best hybrids of the past decades, was about to disappear during the 1980s due to the introduction of skunks and indicas in the breeding scene.

Our Haze population comes from the last reproductions made with this variety in California, and it has been preserved intact until today by Oldtimer, a British breeder, and then reproduced by our breeders using a wide diversity of parental plants.

Oldtimer’s Haze still preserves the genetic diversity that many present Haze lines have already lost, and it is possible to find phenotypes ranging from the mythic and nearly extinct “Purple Haze” to the most popular “Green Haze” phenotype, and of course intermediate combinations as well.

By flowering the Hazes at low temperatures, the garden fills with beautiful autumn colours that vary from light green to red, blue and purple.

The flowers gather forming willowy bunches that achieve good volume, when grown under optimum conditions.

Oldtimer’s Haze has an incalculable value for every preservationist, collector and breeder that is looking for a Haze’s population that still conserves all quality and genetic diversity of the original hybrid.

Oldtimer’s Haze is a delight for 70s sativas lovers, a trip back into the past for all those who could not enjoy it at that time.

Structure: Slim and elegant plants, with a tall, branched structure. Medium-length internodes. At the time of growing, the leaf is very thin and shows a pale colour. It reacts very well to pruning.

Bouquet: Dark, fruity aroma, with earthy touches of ashes, incense and antique wood aroma.

Green Haze’s aroma is fruitier (like tropical ripe fruit), while Purple Hazes smell like blackberry and black liquor.

Effect: Strong stimulating and mental effect, without heaviness or physical weakening. A high level of THC and low level of CBD together produce a no-limit effect, which allows you to get higher and higher with each intake. It can produce anxiety and paranoia in high doses and/or to persons prone to these conditions.

Flowering: it takes between 16 and 24 weeks, depending on the plant’s size and the flowering conditions. Outdoors it ends between the end of December and January.

Production/m2: Medium-low.

Growing type

Indoors: we only recommend it to extreme sativas lovers and breeding projects.

Outdoors: Only in tropical or subtropical climates. Within latitudes between 20º and 35º, we would recommend a warm, coastal climate and the use of a greenhouse.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:03 AM #44
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This is going to get ugly puts on helmet and safty glasses jumps into freshly dug fox hole .
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:43 AM #45
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Highliter, I'm not sure but I don't think the breadth represented in the original germplasm used by Ace was any larger than that used by BCO. But, you are correct in that ACE did 3 select three females from from both f1 and f2 populations where the longest flowering and perennial females had been removed to hasten the finishing time and crossed/backcrossed to an original male from the first generation. I could be wrong, but I don't believe the attempt was to fix any traits, hence the use of the same male to pollinate 3 unique phenos.

The BCO version on the other hand is just an open pollinated bulked line, with no decrease in flowering time, and less narrowing of the population.

Basically, you have two unique philosophies here. BCO says that the desirability of the haze is caused by heterosis, traits can be fixed, but must be done so slowly with a population that is first bulked, and the longest flowering/perennial phenos must be kept in the population. ACE says that the line can and should be improved right from the start, even if the population size is limited, and that the longest flowering/perennial phenos and heterosis have little to do with quality.

Both lines are good, and both points of view have advantages and drawbacks. I think we can be pretty certain that both versions are works in progress.

Personally, I like the perennial phenos, and feel it is a shame that most growers throw a percentage of the plants out which fail to flower when they want them to. At the same time, I understand that growroom space is time and money that most growers don't feel like spending on a project of that sort.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:45 AM #46
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Hempy,
Why is this gettin ugly??
How many times did kashgari & you state that the seeds used by Nevil were from 1969????here and in other sites??
I choose to believe Skunkman´s words
and btw,
BCSC Haze comes from "lifted" cuts.First Wolman,and then my good friend charlie did the selections,but maybe you know better?????

EDIT: I made a typo,I wrote 1979 instead of 1969 sry
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:58 AM #47
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Hola amigos

I will never put in front a selection of 10.000 individuals done by Sam in the Original Haze with OT Haze. Sure OT haze contains old genes but an accurate selection is needed. Job on them is been done on all individuals available.. our job was to restore the best possible available.

Bluebeard.. BC job is a joke. As said many times before I personally passed "some" clones to Oldtimer via BC. Never arrived to Oldtimer but were put in the market instead by BC mixing this little population I gave them for OT. Clear and in 2 words. I germed all seeds available. ACE job discharted some individuals and isolated best females and males. Each lot has written the female and male used for any future possibility to identify best individuals and combinations from all orignal seeds.. not f2 at all like you say. We are on third year of this job and still so much to be done. Each year different combiantions are studied. We cannot grow 10000 plants at once but we use time and time to do our best. btw I sent 2 early Haze male cuts..#16 and #25.. they were the earliest available in that moment.. not other consideration about them and at ACE were culled later as not so good at all. So excuse me BB but I dont know who told you or passed you such so incorrect info. Is a joke indeed. Cant talk about other things you express as my adkowledge comes from practical dirty jobs of gardening not theorical as BC seems to talk upon your OT haze comments...

If you grow and smoke it you will recognize it as a Haze line. Aromas, type of effect, traits found... but I cannot say where these lines come from or if they are a segregation of old Haze jobs or Sam jobs... but definatelly upon my opinion there must be a common old point where they came from.

I dont think there should be any problem to talk truly. Job done by Sam is galaxies away from what ACE did and universes away from joking BC haze job. Sam and his jobs have all our best, biggest and deepest respects. Wish there were more Sams around to do jobs in the way a real breeding should be done. And wish some other pseudo breeders will act honestly instead of selling others jobs.

best

edit, any OT haze with earliness traits is been removed

Last edited by charlie garcia; 02-25-2008 at 04:35 AM..
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:11 AM #48
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Well said charlie!!
Bluebeard,
Does BC have the female cut #1??I highly doubt it
I have it
They don´t even know what they have...
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:40 AM #49
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Hola Raco

I dont know what they have or not. I disagree an open pollination could help the line at all.. but opposite in this case, you have to check each and every individual and grow each and every combination

best

Last edited by charlie garcia; 02-25-2008 at 04:45 AM..
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:04 AM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raco
Hempy,
Why is this gettin ugly??
How many times did kashgari & you stated that the seeds used by Nevil were from 1979????here and in other sites??
I choose to believe Skunkman´s words
and btw,
BCSC Haze comes from "lifted" cuts.First Wolman,and then my good friend charlie did the selections,but maybe you know better?????
Okay il jump out of the fox hole .

hiya roco why it will get ugly well tell me one haze post that dont when people start to post its bound to happen.

I never sed seeds used by nevile were from 1979 mate there from 69 find a single post i sed 79 or that kashgari has sed 79 you wont find one.

I have a lot of respect for sam sure i may not agree with sam on things but it dont mean i dont like or respect him why do you think i watch wat i say to sam ?, Its not becouse im sceard of sam its becouse the guy called sam the skunk man has seen and done a lot and if you like him or not just like nevile and other they are pioners of this colture / community and are desrving of people respect full stop something many in this community dont show others its become a greed and self ego strokeing movement.

I know shanti i call him a close friend met him more than once spoke to him and did ask him about haze he is one of the most honest people you could hope to met.

You know if i start here whats it going to achive or solve roco im only going to piss of ace seeds im going to piss of breeders choice and oldtimer and many more whats it realy going to achive man ?.

I have been growing non stop since 79 started on pure sativas only realy did dutch lines as people call them since realy 2002 i ran a few before that but not many smoket lots of things grown from dutch lines tho and you know not all dutch lines suck as i also once thort my self infact some comercial avaluble seed lines can be very special if you put some effert in the selection .

Roco read this.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know.
-SamS
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