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To Lube or not to Lube

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pullit07

New member
To lube or not lube...


Before my question and because this is my first post I would like introduce myself. I'm a retired combat Vet who rediscovered Medical Marijuana a few years back and found it be one of the most effective way to manage my PTSD, this is what sent me down the path of extraction. I started off with Soxhlet extraction set up, moving on to dry ice and ethanol. I then switched to Hydrocarbons, I began with open columns. Then I purchased what I thought was the perfect extractor the “Waxtractor”, only to realize this thing was nothing more than a Glass grenade. After that experience I decide to take the plunge and built my own CLS, so I made a Vapor assisted Passive Bi-directional Modular Rack mounted Mobile Extractor unit.
None of this would have been a possibly if it wasn't for this forum and Skunk Pharm. This includes everyone who has ever posted or responded, but I do feel it necessary to single out one person in particular. GrayWolf I can't thank you enough for all the information you've shared, in many ways I learned almost more from your replies to community posts than your very own your posts. The way you take the time to answer questions and the support you provide cannot be understated. Please this is not to say there weren't many other individuals who also have and continue to contribute on regular basis. This is why I love this site. "It takes a village to raise a child" Thank you


My question has to do with my Dixon HT-Series 1/2" Flush Face Coupler(s) I have 6 Male and 3 Female. I love the couplers and they work great except for after a extraction the Male coupler internal (flush face/button?) doesn't always pop back into the correct position(seems to be dry?) I tested to see if they still pass a pressure tests (without popping back) and they did. The lubricant I had bought was "Super Lube H-3 lightweight Aceite Liviano Food Grade" and used it when I first received my Couplers because they came dry and that's what the website stated, it also states that periodically you may need to reapply lubricant.
So my biggest concern is if this lube is getting into my extract and what effect it might have? So far I've done 7 extraction runs and sparingly apply lube after every other run and it seems to do the trick. My end product has been turning out awesome but maybe I've just been lucky.

I would love hear for anyone who has had any issues like this with their Couplers/Quick Disconnects being dry and or sticking. I also like to hear people's thoughts about using lubricants with valves/couplers.

Cheers
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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pullit07 said:
To lube or not lube...


Before my question and because this is my first post I would like introduce myself. I'm a retired combat Vet who rediscovered Medical Marijuana a few years back and found it be one of the most effective way to manage my PTSD, this is what sent me down the path of extraction. I started off with Soxhlet extraction set up, moving on to dry ice and ethanol. I then switched to Hydrocarbons, I began with open columns. Then I purchased what I thought was the perfect extractor the “Waxtractor”, only to realize this thing was nothing more than a Glass grenade. After that experience I decide to take the plunge and built my own CLS, so I made a Vapor assisted Passive Bi-directional Modular Rack mounted Mobile Extractor unit.
None of this would have been a possibly if it wasn't for this forum and Skunk Pharm. This includes everyone who has ever posted or responded, but I do feel it necessary to single out one person in particular. GrayWolf I can't thank you enough for all the information you've shared, in many ways I learned almost more from your replies to community posts than your very own your posts. The way you take the time to answer questions and the support you provide cannot be understated. Please this is not to say there weren't many other individuals who also have and continue to contribute on regular basis. This is why I love this site. "It takes a village to raise a child" Thank you


My question has to do with my Dixon HT-Series 1/2" Flush Face Coupler(s) I have 6 Male and 3 Female. I love the couplers and they work great except for after a extraction the Male coupler internal (flush face/button?) doesn't always pop back into the correct position(seems to be dry?) I tested to see if they still pass a pressure tests (without popping back) and they did. The lubricant I had bought was "Super Lube H-3 lightweight Aceite Liviano Food Grade" and used it when I first received my Couplers because they came dry and that's what the website stated, it also states that periodically you may need to reapply lubricant.
So my biggest concern is if this lube is getting into my extract and what effect it might have? So far I've done 7 extraction runs and sparingly apply lube after every other run and it seems to do the trick. My end product has been turning out awesome but maybe I've just been lucky.

I would love hear for anyone who has had any issues like this with their Couplers/Quick Disconnects being dry and or sticking. I also like to hear people's thoughts about using lubricants with valves/couplers.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good thoughts brother! This is the forum that I've learned the most on too.

Alas, after a professional lifetime of failing to find a quick disconnect that didn't eventually leak, I resigned myself to protecting systems with backup valves where I do use them, or dealing with leaks.

Walk through a factory off hours and listen to the air leaks from quick disconnects. Go to the hydraulic tool storage locker and look at the shelf under the disconnects.

Adding a ball valve immediately after the disconnect makes leaking more or less moot, beyond aspirating minor atmosphere.

As far as lubricating valves, I typically disassemble new valves and remove the factory lubricant. If you are going to experiment lubricating valves, I suggest food grade lubricants with a MSDS sheet demonstrating so.
 
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pullit07

New member
Grey Wolf
It's a honor to finally get a chance to speak to you. I remember a old post about Quick Disconnects and you used the factory example, I listen and took your advice. Luckily my system was still in early development so it was easy to add or move my valves. My valves are located about a 1-2" for all my male and one of my female coupler. The 2 other female couplers are on my main transfer hose which I connect to system when pulling a vacuum and don't disconnect until it gets positive pressure.
When it comes to changing or adding lubricant to valves my question is how is that done? I have 3 swagelok 1/2" valves, 2 of them are 3way and the other one is 2way. These valves are tight/hard to turn but the rest of my swagelok valves 3/8" down to 1/4" are easy to turn. When I spoke with swagelok they told me any valve 1/2" or bigger needs a special tool to remove the packing nut? My biggest concern is that I've spent a ridiculous amount of money on these valves and wouldn't want to mess them up.
I last part of my question is what are the effect of this lubricant on extracts, even when they are food safe? Is it possible one would need dewax to remove any lubricant in the extract?

Cheers
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
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pullit07 said:
Grey Wolf
It's a honor to finally get a chance to speak to you. I remember a old post about Quick Disconnects and you used the factory example, I listen and took your advice. Luckily my system was still in early development so it was easy to add or move my valves. My valves are located about a 1-2" for all my male and one of my female coupler. The 2 other female couplers are on my main transfer hose which I connect to system when pulling a vacuum and don't disconnect until it gets positive pressure.
When it comes to changing or adding lubricant to valves my question is how is that done? I have 3 swagelok 1/2" valves, 2 of them are 3way and the other one is 2way. These valves are tight/hard to turn but the rest of my swagelok valves 3/8" down to 1/4" are easy to turn. When I spoke with swagelok they told me any valve 1/2" or bigger needs a special tool to remove the packing nut? My biggest concern is that I've spent a ridiculous amount of money on these valves and wouldn't want to mess them up.
I last part of my question is what are the effect of this lubricant on extracts, even when they are food safe? Is it possible one would need dewax to remove any lubricant in the extract?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good thoughts brother P7!

You can order the valves directly from Swagelok already cleaned and certified pharma/food grade.

We flushed some 1/2" ourselves by pumping acetone through them, while operating the valve a few dozen times.

We took the 2" 3 piece dump valves apart and cleaned them. When they get sticky, we clean them insitu by removing the column and clamping the column top plate there instead.

That allows us to flush LPG through the system to "clean in place" and remove sticky films from the ball surfaces.

Teflon cold flows, so its also important to not leave a 2" valve half open too long, or the seat can deform enough to make it difficult to operate.
 
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pullit07

New member
I wish I had know that before I had bought those valves. The cool thing is that I live about 40 miles from the Swagelok Regional Office/Store, when I was buying my valves I asked if they were food safe straight out of the box. I was told that apart from running alcohol through them they would be good to go. It’s possible that I bought the right ones, all my valves series numbers have a E in them (example: SS-45EF8 or SS-44EF8) I had assumed the E stood for low temp so I checked the product catalog and looked at the specs. With the 40E and 40T series valves the E or T does stands for low temp but for different packing lube, the T has PFA/D3307 and the E has UHMWPE/D4020 which I’m hoping is the right one.

When you use acetone does that strip all the lube from the valve? I had assumed because the nature of the solvents we use the valves would stay clean.

Apart for taking the handles off I really don't feel comfortable messing with my swagelok valves, maybe if the Regional Office can show me how I would feel more confident, but will take my 1 ½” dump valve apart when it needs to be cleaned.

Teflon Cold Flow, I’m not sure I know what that means. Does it have to do with fluid getting around/behind the valve’s ball?

When it comes to not leaving your 2” dump valve halfway open, do you think that would apply to my smaller valves ½” - ¼” my guess it would. The reason I ask is that I use one of my ⅜” valves on vapor side of the solvent tank to control flow rate/throttle out the liquid side, do you think I might mess up that valve? I could use the vapor side of my vapor assist tank because those valves are adjustable now maybe I’m crazy but I find I can hear/feel the solvent leaving the tank better than when I use the vapor assist tank valve, I believe this is because the solvent tank is pushing liquid out which creates more vibrations versus the vapor tank which is pushing gas and almost completely submerged.

Thanks for all the info..

Cheers
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
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pullit07 said:
When you use acetone does that strip all the lube from the valve? I had assumed because the nature of the solvents we use the valves would stay clean.

I've never taken one apart to see if it was clean, but note acetone cleans the lube from the larger valves, so infer (ASSume) it is doing it the same to the smaller valves.

Teflon Cold Flow, I’m not sure I know what that means. Does it have to do with fluid getting around/behind the valve’s ball?

Cold flowing is where the teflon creeps/flows away from pressure exerted on it and distorts.

When it comes to not leaving your 2” dump valve halfway open, do you think that would apply to my smaller valves ½” - ¼” my guess it would. The reason I ask is that I use one of my ⅜” valves on vapor side of the solvent tank to control flow rate/throttle out the liquid side, do you think I might mess up that valve? I could use the vapor side of my vapor assist tank because those valves are adjustable now maybe I’m crazy but I find I can hear/feel the solvent leaving the tank better than when I use the vapor assist tank valve, I believe this is because the solvent tank is pushing liquid out which creates more vibrations versus the vapor tank which is pushing gas and almost completely submerged.

Thanks for all the info..

Cheers
Click to expand...

Not typically a big deal on the smaller valves and PTFE ball valves are often used for throttling, though a gate or needle valve is more linear.
 
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pullit07

New member
GW Thank you for the great info

Maybe I've been stressing about this lube stuff to much, I think I'm going to continue to sparingly use my food safe lubricant on these Couplers. I'm also going to swagelok and find out if my valves have the food safe packing.

I do love these Couplers they are easy to use, they feel really solid when you hold them and they look cool. Unfortunately there are drawbacks they need to lubed, eventually they will leak/fail and depending on the design you could get significant restricted flow. I'm not a big fan of JIC or SAE mainly because the need for crush washers and my ability to lose the wrenches. I've used Compression fittings but not with extraction equipment and the Fractional fittings seem cool but I've never used them.

Cheers
 
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