Does it really matter how many watts you use to veg?

Phillthy · Nov 19, 2010

my 400w t5 floros out perform my 400w MH.

i keep mothers under floros, reveg under them, pop seeds, start clones, and veg plants. 1 have an 8 bulb 4 foot tek-light and 2 4 foot 4 bulb tek-lights. i have had an SS10 ballast, supersun II hood, with a hortilux blue bulb and now have a lumatek ballast with same hood and bulb setup.

Devilboy · Nov 19, 2010

my self personally i use a t5 for my cuttings and once they take solid root i move them under a 600 w and i flower under that same 600 w {this is my personal grow} .my partner and i in our large grow use t5's for cuttings and then move directly under 1k mh and flower under 1k hps about 12 plants per light in 8gal pots xl adjusta wings ..my partner is a cheap fkr and we tried using t5's fo full veg one run and found that on a average we lost about 25% weight .had to let him try it and to prove that t5's are only for cloning but if ur just looking for a lil personal smoke hell use a t5 to veg and a 600w hps to flower ull get a nice plant for personal

Baba Ku · Nov 19, 2010

It is easy for others to spend your money on lights.
But one needs to really consider the cost of throwing large amounts of energy. Is it really that cost effective to throw veg plants under high HID? Maybe, maybe not.

Everyone has a different situation and differing needs.
I have a cab that is basically 2x2 for flower and another 2x2 for veg. I veg with only six 24wCFLs, using three for seedlings and 3 for growing plants. While the flower cab is going, I can veg out the next run and get the plants going for the run after that. In 8 wks time it is very hard to even contain the vegging plants.
When they go into flower they are perfect size for the flip to 12/12.

Normally I will flower 4 plants in 2gallon bags w/400CMH vertically. I may also throw in 2-3 plants in small pots just for fillers.
I can pull 2 ounces each from the 2 gallon bag plants. That's a half pound of dry nugs every two months using 150 watts of CFL and 400 watts of HID.
Not the gram per watt champ, but it is more than I can smoke and if I were to use big lights during veg, I wouldn't be able to contain the plants and probably see diminished returns.

GPW stat keepers need to also add up the energy used for veg as well. If you do this, you can find the optimum usage of energy for your space.

StealthDragon · Nov 19, 2010

I veg under 1/10 the light that I flower in...~200watts of led and cfl to veg and 2k hps in flower. I run perpetual and my veg cabinet gets overloaded when everything is running smooth.

fredcdobbs · Nov 19, 2010

Greyskull said:
how big do they get growing for 2months under fluoros? what size flouros? 18/6 or 20/4 or 24/0?
im pretty sure you'll cut off a few weeks maybe even a months time, easily, especially if you vegged with your 1k.... if you vegged with 1k that like letting the sun grow your plants almost haha (not really. but close hehe)

fluoros can/will suffice just fine for veg... in fact i just bought a 2ft 8bulb + 2x 2ft 4bulb (lots of control over how much light im using & where im focusing it) to hang over a 2x4 in the gl80L. but im gonna have 4+ weeks to let plants sit under them.... i have the time....

its all about time...

the fluoros are t12..size is hard to say cause i tie them down and top..when i put the last crop into the flower room the tallest one was 21 inches..would veggin for 30 days under 1000 give me the same roots as veggin under t12 fluoros for 60 days?...these are all well established clones when i get em....

250wscrogger · Nov 19, 2010

I use t5's for my moms and cloning...wouldn't use anything else.

I wasn't trying to say that everyone vegging under t5's is stupid....just saying that people with 4kw + flower rooms SHOULD have enough growing experience to know better...

I've seen quite a few 6-10kw shows on this site ran by people who have no clue what they're doing....making big time noob mistakes... not pruning properly, not feeding properly, and my biggest gripe of all NOT ENOUGH VEG WATTAGE
I just think that these people should just start smaller until they get the hang of growing....I grew for 2 years under a 400w and got my growing on LOCK DOWN before I stepped into the commercial game...
Starting as a small scrogger and learning how to properly LST plants and predict early flowering stretch gave me the skills necessary to handle large greenhouse grows... Learning how and when to properly prune lower shoots helped me BIG TIME when I switched over to SOG grows...
If I just tried to run a greenhouse as a NOOB without 2 years of solid growing experience first, I would have surely failed.

A lot of new growers are setting up shows bigger they have the skills for and ending up with such shitty crops that they can barely even cover their overhead costs....I consider these people stupid.

You gotta learn it before you can earn it....

Yes4Prop215 · Nov 19, 2010

what about LED lights for veg...they claim to use lets watts. im more concerned about energy usage since that 1000w HID for veg will up my electric bill up by about 200 a month. i like how my veg space only uses about 250 watts of energy using two 4 foot t5s and six 2 ft t5s..

each four footer runs about 50 watts...so would running 6-8 t5s be more effecient than running a 600mh? can someone who knows the lumen outpet per light let me now?

thanks...im wondering if i should just add some more t5s or upgrade to a 600mh

Incognegro · Nov 19, 2010

Only thing I think may be your downfall Prop215, is your only using 2 4foot T5's correct? Step it up to 4 bulbs or 6, BIG difference..I can show what my veg area looks like, it works for me... I will upgrade to T5's soon as I build the light bay (I am a distributor for bulbs and etc) then BAM! I'll be really set then!

lol

250wscrogger · Nov 19, 2010

This is a perfect example of why I prefer HID....more lumens per watt.

An 8 bulb, 432w t5 puts out around 40,000 lumens

A 600w HPS puts out around 90,000 lumens

Only 168 more watts for 50,000 more lumens....hehe of course you should upgrade to a 600w.

I use a 600w hps for veg......works great...

I veg my plants to 16''-18'' before flowering (vegging 24 2 gallons in a 4x4 footprint) so a 600w is perfect...if you're on a monthly it's a lot easier to conserve power in the veg room....
If I wasn't going perpetual I would need 1200w to veg 48 plants to the proper size for each 4k stadium run, but since I only need 24 plants per month (to fill one of two 2k stadiums) I only need a single 600w.......(plus a 216w t5 for moms and a 54w t5 for clones).

Efficiency is key when growing indoors.

Hammerhead · Nov 19, 2010

the 600 will increse your operating cost by 2x compaied to T5.

Baba Ku · Nov 20, 2010

Not to mention the considerable cost for cooling when using HID.

Incognegro · Nov 20, 2010

Exactly.

When one refers to efficiency, all aspects should be taken into consideration, especially costs.

Granted for most the T5's are more expensive to purchase upfront, but the cots of running is significantly cheaper, take into account the extra wattage of the 600, plus the extreme amount of heat that light throws off.

But referring back to the original poster, he/she is using a 400 for 15 plants, at 12inches tall. My personal experience, that is about the limit for me for veggin with a 400... maybe 15inches tops.

And also since he/she mentioned the 13k flower room, with a flower room that big i'd still start use my T5 or T8 setup, then at about 10 days, they'd be under a 400, then go to a 1000 at about week 3 of life. Then into the flower room at about 4-5weeks old, depending on what I'm looking for, and also what strain I'm using.

I think it all boils down to whether or not you can afford/want to pay for the use of HID during veg, it is necessary (how many plants are you tryin to veg, and how tall are you looking to get them before flowering).

Yes4Prop215 · Nov 20, 2010

250wscrogger said:
An 8 bulb, 432w t5 puts out around 40,000 lumens

A 600w HPS puts out around 90,000 lumens

Only 168 more watts for 50,000 more lumens....hehe of course you should upgrade to a 600w.

thanks for those numbers! puts things into perspective....maybe it is better to upgrade....pay a little more in energy costs but that extra 50k in lumens is no joke..

Incognegro · Nov 20, 2010

The physical numbers are greater, but think about how far away will the 600 need to be to be usable for the plants without burning them.
the further away the lights, the lessor the intensity of light at the leave level.

Whereas the T5's would be almost sitting on top of the lights. More efficient

250wscrogger · Nov 20, 2010

The plants will take significantly less time (a couple weeks) to get to the size you need under HID...

600's also have much better light penetration than t5's...

I keep 600's about 16'' above the plants with super sun 2 hoods aircooled with a 6'' vortex...

HID veg FTW if you're expecting more than headstash returns....

SupraSPL · Nov 20, 2010

Yes4Prop215 said:
thanks for those numbers! puts things into perspective....maybe it is better to upgrade....pay a little more in energy costs but that extra 50k in lumens is no joke..

Those numbers are accurate but there is more to the story. One thing to consider is that fluoros have much better lumen maintenance than HPS. Another advantage for fluoros is more even spread of light. Photosynthesis is more efficienct at lower light intensities so spreading it evenly gives better bang for the buck than the brute force method of overhead HID.

HPS can stretch out sativa doms so may not be suitable for vegging on its own for every strain. So in the case of sativa doms that need MH rather than HPS the 400w MH puts out 36000 lumens and lumen mainenance is even worse than with HPS.

Incognegro · Nov 20, 2010

SupraSPL said:
Those numbers are accurate but there is more to the story. One thing to consider is that fluoros have much better lumen maintenance than HPS. Another advantage for fluoros is more even spread of light. Photosynthesis is more efficienct at lower light intensities so spreading it evenly gives better bang for the buck than the brute force method of overhead HID.

HPS can stretch out sativa doms so may not be suitable for vegging on its own for every strain. So in the case of sativa doms that need MH rather than HPS the 400w MH puts out 36000 lumens and lumen mainenance is even worse than with HPS.

EXACTLY!

Yes4Prop215 · Nov 20, 2010

yea i did veg some OG kush under a 150 HPS and they stretched like crazy...they normally stretch alot but they went too nuts under the HPS

250wscrogger · Nov 20, 2010

yeah certain strains (sativa dominant) may greatly benefit from having MH in veg....I haven't used a 600MH yet...
only 600w hortilux and now ushio HI-LUX after hearing about hortilux bulbs exploding with digital ballasts....

I personally never had a problem with hortilux/lumatek though to be honest......

My clones root under t5's and then chill in beer cups for about a week under the 6500k 54w t5 to increase root development...then they get transplanted into 2 gal pots of pro mix under the 600w.
3 weeks later they get transplanted to 3 gal pots of pro mix and put into flower....

growshopfrank · Nov 22, 2010

Check out this guys setup t5s for rooting and early veg and hps for moms a little stretch makes for a nice cut, tight nodes make it harder to get a nice (stemy) cut.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEdmQlUyQfA

Does it really matter how many watts you use to veg?

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