How Do You Flush in Hydro?

BudLove · Jul 2, 2008

HairlessCaveApe said:
So then BudLove, what your saying is that once the nutes are stored in the plant, the plant can process them regardless of what the ph is? I aint buyin it. Also,my ppm's rize considerqably durring theyr week long flush period and my medium is hydroton, can you explane this? -Also, Im well aware that the flushing process in hydro aint to make the plant regurgitate into its nute solution, please excuse my semantics, Im very well aware that the flush process in hydro is to make the plant use up whatever nutes are in its vegative material, but this is what most folks consider "flushing" in hydro. I've always ph'd my water to 6.4 durring theyr flush and I,ve always had wonderfull results and I harvest every other week. Altho your rite bout the fact that I never did a side by side test on what I said, I do believe it to be true. Mabey I'l do a test about this one day but I dont think so, my results satisfy me greatly!

Greetz Cave!
I appreciate all your points and believe that they are valid for your experience. I think the main point, at least in which I will focus, is that your ppms rise during a flush.

My experience has been - medium (small) rockwool cube in hydroton in a DWC bucket. If I take RO water, at 0EC (or possibly .01EC) and simply pour it through the RW and hydroton - letting it drain into an empty bucket, and take a reading - the EC has increased. This is the 'flush' part as there are certainly nutrients locked in the RW, hydroton and more importantly the root zone.

In all of my reading I do not believe I have seen anything indicating the plant actually produces waste back into the root zone... my understanding (though limited) is the roots are there to pull in and not for disposal.

Now trust me when I say I am far from Jorge or a college professor on this shit... so if there is evidence out there that someone can provide, I am VERY interested in learning all I can and improving my techniques.

However, as it stands - I believe a flush is to remove salt buildup and STARVE the plant.

Hell - quite a few growers dont even bother flushing. The ONLY reason I do it is so that when I chop her, most of her fan leaves are already drained of N and P/K and thus are turning yellow. This allows for a shorter cure time and less of the 'sparklers' when burning the bud (nothing worse than it sparking up on ya).

So - I keep it simple. Plain RO water, fuck the pH, screw the additives (such as clearex) and change water every 3 days until ready to harvest.

Trust me when I say I have tried almost every method I've read on this board (and others) when it comes to flushing/curing/harvesting. I have never seen a difference using Clearex, using pH'ed water or plain RO water in side by side harvests. If there was a difference, it was minute enough for me not to be able to detect it - which means, I get to save on my time and $$ since I dont have to worry about buying additives or using pH up/down and meters to measure it.

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 2, 2008

Hey Howdy BudLove! The plants actually do discharge a waste product into the water. Not that this is what we count on for a flush, flushing in hydro is just flushing the nutes outta the plant by not givinem any more nutes, thus forcin them to eat whats innem. The roots dischargin into the water is a whole differant subject. From what I understand the plant dose this constantly. Im certain that even if I used marbles instead of hydroton my ppm's would rize durring flush. This is how the plant eliminates waste products. I flower aeroponicly and all my plants are in 3" net pots from start to finish. They finish at 1.5 oz each dry weight. My point is, my plants are very large when compared to the 3" net pots they grow in. About 26" tall with several lateral buds bushin out. The 3" net pot with the rocks in it is tiny compared to the bulk of the plant itself. Theres just not enoughf medium there to account for the ppm rize. The plants do in fact eleminate waste products threw their roots. --This really is besides the point tho. The mater here is wether or not the plant needs proper ph in order to process the nutes already in its veg mater. I shurly believe it dose. If sombody wanted to put this to the test, they could take 2 plants side by side in mediumless systems and stop feedin them. Give one properly ph'ed water and one whatever water comes outta the tap. If the one that got the unadjusted tap water dies first we could assume its because it wasnt able to process the nutes it had stored in its veg material and starved to death.

gonejah17 · Jul 2, 2008

Just some points from me.

I didnt start this thread, not sure if there was some confusion there.

I believe, and its been a while since Ive read it, that in the lucas thread Lucas states that he believes the plants DO NOT discharge waste. This is part of the reason he says u dont have to change the res I believe.

IMO ph range is not important during flush, but I havent done nearly enough growing to be able to say for sure, thats why Im asking, but the feeling I get from ppl and my gut feeling is that its not important. I think the ph range is for the medium and has to do more with uptake than the plants internal processing of nutes. Just getting that feeling but lord knows I could be wrong.

.02

whodi · Jul 2, 2008

What are the benefits of using clearX the last 3-4 days?

I noticed it has sugarcose and other stuff... does that improve the taste at all?

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 2, 2008

I start clones in 3" net pots. I root them in 6.4 water. In 2 weeks theyr ready for nutes. Theyr ready sooner but I like to stay on a scedule. After this 2 week rootin peroid I nute the bukkit and they veg for 2 more weeks. Then they go into an aeroponic system where they flower for 45 days. Theres no mediun to speek of. Anyhow, Here we go to the meat of the mater. I mix fresh flower nutes for the aero system and change out the rez whenever they fall to about 1/4 of their origional volume. In other words, if I start out with 10 gallons, I change the nutes out when my rez gets down to bout 2 gallons. Maby every 5 or 6 days or so. When I mix the fresh nutes I mix them to round 1800 ppm's. By the very next day my ppm's are off my pen. It only goes up to 2000. Its for this very reason Im figurin on gettin a comercial trunchon that would read up to 8000 ppms. My ppm's rise from 1800 ppms to "off the stick" in less than 24 hours. -Now I just described my entire process from rootin to finishen so everyone could see what I do and what I put in the mix and I dont add nothin but a bit of ph up durring this whole time. so- Where's the extra ppm's commin from? I aint addin nothin yet the ppm's rize. If it aint commin from the plants roots then wheres it commin from? I bet my ppm's rize to bout 4000 by the time I dump my rez. Now if alla that crapp aint commin from my roots then wheres it commin from? Please dont say its from evaporation or the plants transpirin water quicker than nutes, it just cant be so. Not to the extent I see it. -Heres whats up- Plants excrete waste products threw their roots. I could go on and list other observations Ive made to support this "claim" but I really already said alot. I disagre with the notion roots dont excrete waste products. Nothin personal, but it goes against my reading and my own observations.

osirica420 · Jul 2, 2008

no ph is needed to flush..

ph is only adjusted to get the plants to uptake minerals....

Once the plant has eaten it has...

They use the stored energy/minerals to stay alive and grow til there is nothing left to support growth...

ph IMO should only be adjusted during the flush if using additives..

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 2, 2008

I dont use Advanced nutes but I use theyr ph up and ph down. Anyhow, I called theyr tek support and the guy on the other end of the phone said ph should be adjusted durring flush because the plants need the proper ph in order to process the nutes in its veg mater. Not just the nutes in its water. I always did it this way because I remember reading that this is how it works. I couldnt remember where I read it so I couldnt give any referances. I figured if I couldnt come up with any referances from the reading material I read on the subject I'd call Advanced tek support for a referance and they gave me one. They said to adjust your ph while you flush because the plant needs the ph adjusted properly in order to use built up nutes in its veg mater. Mabey those who dont do this can try it to see if theyr flushin results would be beter this way. The guy at Advanced says they would.

Wannabreed · Jul 2, 2008

hey i use vitrasol
http://www.bionova.nl/SiteEN/En/pages/Detail3EN.asp?ID=58
15 last days in soil
8 last days in dwc
any comment welcome about that

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 2, 2008

potparty said:
you feed around 1800ppm and it ends up over 4000? sorry I'm gonna have to call bs on this one that or you need to calibrate your meter

I was absolutly positive someone would say that. Let me assure you that every word of what I've said is true. I have no reason to lie or make stuff up. The ppm's in my flower room start out at 1800 ppm's and they rize well over what my milwalky pen can mesure. I said I bet they go up round 4000 ppms because of how rapidly they rize and how fast the pen gives the "bar" signal. As time goes by the bar signal comes up faster and faster leading to the conclusion that the nutes are gettin thicker and thicker. Tho my pen only goes up to 2000 and I cannot document the actual readings Im figurin the ppm's prolly go well over 3000 because of the fact that by the next day rite after mixin my nutes to 1800, theyr over the 20000ppm's my pen registers. It just shows the bar signal. From that point on the bar comes up quicker and quicker as time goes on indicating the nutes are gettin thicker and thicker. All the flowers in my galery were grown using Solar Greenhouse powders at 1800 and it rizes as the days go by. Even the fresh rooted and veged for 2 week clones I put in START OUT at 1800 ppm's They all eat it all the same. The 6 day olds and the 6 week olds. I think it has alot to do with the nutes I use. Their very high quality nutes and several Canadian west coast institutes use it for their own purposes. The n

:k components in these nutes are one grade above plant grade and one grade below human consumption., I dont know why they would have a grade there but they do. Also, keepin all other conditions optimal is a factor. I think that if you keep all your conditions proper you can run higher ppm's. The plants LOVE it. As soon as its feasable Il post pics of this. At the present Im startin over after movin to CA from Philly but Im just about to start my flower room back up. When I do I'l post up some pics clearly showin my pen with the numbers displayed.

LV_Kid · Jul 2, 2008

whodi said:
Never done hydro.

How do you all flush? Just run straight ph adjusted water in the rez the last 10 days.. or what? Do you still use hygrozyme and other additives during the flush?

I like to flush ten days before the pull is finished. Balanced Ph is a must but I also like using Final Phase with it. Allows to flush all nutrients out of the plants and gives them a better taste quality.

rule35sub1 · Jul 3, 2008

I flush with plain old tap water 10 days before finish. I look at it this way, you are flushing to use up or get rid of the excess nutes. If you use plain tap water and you get nute lockout, those nutes that are trapped in the plant get used up by the plant anyway. I never had any problems flushing, just do what you want, i just keep it simple.

midwestnug · Jul 3, 2008

ph

ph

i dont agree with with ppm of 4000 even in the Infirmary it says The best range for nutrients to be absorbed is between a pH of 5 and 7 and a (TDS) range of 800 to 3000 PPM. i had problems at 2000ppm how do you get by with 4000ppm with no problems? maybe calibrate your ppm meter, but as far as ph, from what i read plants lock out nut. at diffrent ph, it says they will not use that nutriant. so if ph is off, and plant cant do its thing eating them up. how is it useing them up in leafs if its locked out? i thought flush was for plant to eat them all up? if plant locks them out, because ph is off, then why not adjust ph? i see point you dont want to add any thing else to plant at flush, but if point of fulsh is to eat up nut. why lock them out not adjusting ph? but one thing that wasnt clear to me is, does the roots lock out the nut. or does the whole plant? at (off) ph. it isnt realy clear on that subject. if it just the roots locking them out. then i guess budlove point is right. no need for ph adjustments cus roots dont need nut. but if plant locks it out, then plant does need to mantain ph.
I guess thats what this thread is about- does roots lock nuts, or does plants?

icough2getoff · Jul 3, 2008

The argument over whether or not pH matters during a straight water flush seems rather pointless. If you give a plant water the plant is going to begin starving immediately regardless because there are many elements in the plant that are immobile, and therefore wont be able to transfer from a source (fan leaf) to a sink (your buds) no matter what your pH is.

some immobile elements are: Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn
some mobile elements are: N, P, K, Mg and S

Overall, I think flushing with straight water in hydro is a pointless and often harmful procedure. Outdoor plants can taste fantastic and they don't get their entire root zone starved of any nutrients. Of course the plants get less hungry as the end of their life cycle nears, but it seems much more appropriate to adjust the ppm levels accordingly by watching how your ppms rise or drop. If it's rising, the solution is usually too strong, so you dilute. If it's dropping, then it's usually a safe bet to add a little bit more nutrients.

A critical look at preharvest flushing
http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1712.htm

BudLove · Jul 3, 2008

icough2getoff said:
The argument over whether or not pH matters during a straight water flush seems rather pointless. If you give a plant water the plant is going to begin starving immediately regardless because there are many elements in the plant that are immobile, and therefore wont be able to transfer from a source (fan leaf) to a sink (your buds) no matter what your pH is.

some immobile elements are: Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn
some mobile elements are: N, P, K, Mg and S

Overall, I think flushing with straight water in hydro is a pointless and often harmful procedure. Outdoor plants can taste fantastic and they don't get their entire root zone starved of any nutrients. Of course the plants get less hungry as the end of their life cycle nears, but it seems much more appropriate to adjust the ppm levels accordingly by watching how your ppms rise or drop. If it's rising, the solution is usually too strong, so you dilute. If it's dropping, then it's usually a safe bet to add a little bit more nutrients.

A critical look at preharvest flushing
http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1712.htm

I concur... :jump:

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 3, 2008

midwestnug said:
i dont agree with with ppm of 4000 even in the Infirmary it says The best range for nutrients to be absorbed is between a pH of 5 and 7 and a (TDS) range of 800 to 3000 PPM. i had problems at 2000ppm how do you get by with 4000ppm with no problems? maybe calibrate your ppm meter,

Sory for the off topic post but I just had to say that my ppm's were mesured with a milwalky pen and then with an oakton. Both were calabrated proper. This is just the way I run my nutes. I didnt expect to be believed but I said what was true. As I said, once I get up and runnin again Il post up pics of my ppm's clearly displayed. Theyr off the pen by the second day from when I mix. I said I think they must be up round 4000 but I cant be shure because my pen only goes up to 2000. Judging by how quick the "bar" signal pops up on my pen signaling my ppm's are too high to read, Im figurin they must be rizin to close to 4000 by the time I change them out. Remember, I add no water to my nute solution from the time I mix them to the time I change them out. I never dilute. It gets prety thik. They go from 10 gallons down to 2 gallons within 5 days and they get THICK. Im just figurin they reach close to 4000ppm. At least over 3500 I figure. And the Herb is excelent. Theres NO overfertilized taste. Only sweetness. I have no reson to make this up. It can only make me look foolish. I have no wish to look foolish, I say these things because theyr true. As I said before, once I get up and runnin again and I get a comercial trunchon that reads to 8000 Il post up pics clearly showing my ppm's displayed on it. My milwalky is usless to me. It only goes up to 2000. I can only mix with it, but then the next day the readings are off the stick and I get the bar signal. Now back to the topic. As I said in my last post. I called Advanced nutes tek support and they said the plant needs the proper ph to process the nutes in the plant so you should adjust your ph when you flush. Tomorow Il call Solar Greenhouse and ask them the same question. I think I allready know the answer. Im gonna keep doin what Im doin. --Wouldnt everyone do well to call theyr nute manufacturer and see what they have to say on this mater?

midwestnug · Jul 4, 2008

i guess if it works for ya go for it. i would. my sour deasels got nut burn at 2200ppms, but my posi haze in same tube showed no signs. ive even heard of training for higher ppm plants. so i cant say for a fact your wrong. i run 1000-1200ppm. seems to be perfect. plants just explodeing 1st week into flower. i bet if i watched realy hard, i could see it grow. hahaha 1st run at hydro, and loveing it..

HairlessCaveApe · Jul 4, 2008

Im not sugestin these high ppms would work for everybody. Im shure its somthing thats specific to the nutes I use and the conditions I set.

yamaha_1fan · Jul 4, 2008

Hairless, you are using this rise in PPM's to validate your reasoning that the plants create waste. Maybe its more like your plants are using more water than nutes? Try running the plants at 1000PPM and see if the PPM's jump so high.

How long are the strains that you guys are running? My strains run 65 days and my buds just start getting solid at the end, so I hate to stop nutes.

Gottagrow · Jul 4, 2008

This may seem lkike a dumb question but is it really needed to flush? I have grown for awhile but havent flushed my babies am I missing something?

Albert Hofmann · Jul 4, 2008

lucas for 7 weeks flush for 1 with florakleen no ph adjustment.

PS I want to see a MJ plant grown with 4000 ppm of nutes that is not burned and tastes sweet

albert

How Do You Flush in Hydro?

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