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Old 03-22-2011, 04:02 PM #31
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Originally Posted by TruthOrLie View Post
Seems like a lot of work. I didn't read it all so maybe I missed it. Do you believe these budsickles would out produce 10-20 larger plants in the same space?
I don't know if they will definitely out-produce 10-20 larger plants, but DHF certainly seems to think it will.

What I do think is that I really like my budsicle buds. I'm comfortable with my submersion watering technique (and it doesn't work nearly as well in larger containers).

A beautiful thing about these containers is that the plant you see in my first pic: went straight from rooting in a jiffy peat pellet to that container right into 12/12. Growing fewer larger plants would require a veg period.

I can clone a hundred plants in a very small space and keep my whole grow in a space that is 10 ft x 3 ft (or something similar.)

A lot easier to build a false wall to hide everything if you don't have to account for a whole missing room.


I can water 30-50 plants in these containers using submersion in about 30 minutes currently. Adding an additional hour every other day isn't that much work, especially with the harvest I'd be looking at. (Even if the HID light only yields as well as my CFLs, there will be much more to harvest. And I have a sneaking suspicion that HIDs will outperform my CFLs. )

In 5 years, I might be growing a few large trees. Who knows? This is the current idea. Let's see where she goes!
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:23 PM #32
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Ok... for your consideration:




Had to start from scratch to re-do the spacing in the pots, so I didn't get as detailed with this one.

This is simply to illustrate marlo's idea of putting more space between budsicles.

Nothing functional about the other design changes, just the spacing in between pots.

The original design has a 3/4" space between pots. This version has a 2.4" space between pots. So almost as big as the pot itself.

This version drops plant count down to 76.

Will it yield as well?

What say you, experts?
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:59 PM #33
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one budsickle = 1/2oz?
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:20 PM #34
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Originally Posted by TruthOrLie View Post
one budsickle = 1/2oz?
That pic was my first round in the full sized MT2510 Treepot. I had been cutting them down from about 29oz volume to 16-17oz volume. In the smaller 16oz version with 36 plants in a 17 inch x 17 inch space, I was yielding approximately 4-5g per plant. In the fullsize pots (still under CFL, packed 25 plants in 17x17) it was yielding as pictured. Unfortunately I ruined my scale while making cannaflour and have no official weight on the plant pictured. Except that I know my largest plant from same clone to date was 9g dry and this one was substantially larger and fatter. So 14.25g per plant does not seem out of the picture with the bump up to 800w. The back side of the plants that are on the top corners of the top row of this thing will be 2.5ft from the bulb. (all other plants are closer than this.) That's about the limit of decent penetration in a 400w CMH (from what I've observed second hand.) Also, with it only being 2.5x6.5 (16.25 sq ft) it works out to 49.23 watts per square foot.

I appreciate everyone's responses. I had a similar brainstorming session prior to building my micro cab two years ago and my original design was substantially tweaked by the time it got built... but the build was documented with pictures and the grow was documented with weights. I intend to do this the same way. I have gotten so much from this community and I want to give a little something back. Please use this idea (if you like it after seeing my results) and tweak it and post your own results.
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2 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-22-2011, 08:28 PM #35
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hey anti,, if you could do this you're set

this is your top row yor could either have this


or this




bottom row you could have this




or this



and you're set

cheers,
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:58 PM #36
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Good points Marlo , but with the original design there`s 3.25" of potential size sideways per budsicle even if they touch.......

With the re-design of only 76 plants , there stands the possibility of gaps in the sideways canopy that light will go right past the plants AFTER stretch , and the only benefit to the plantlets will be as the lumens are bounced back off the walls behind covered in reflectix.....not optimal for a perfect canopy...

IOW....the light`s gonna penetrate through the budsicles regardless due to their size and lack of density , so why not max out the canopy with the increased plant numbers ftw , instead of runnin less plants and hoping for em ta swell out to almost 5.25" wide that`s not very likely in the time frame with no veg time.....

I mean......we`re talkin bout 400 watters , not 1KW`s , so IME as long as each plantlet has room enough to breathe/transpire , and swallow lumens for the process , the more the merrier , and it`s only gonna get better with the second run so on and so forth......

1/2 oz budsicles have been done many times with my SOG bro`s on the left coast with outrageous plant numbers on 4 x 8 tables , so why not with bare bulbs sideways.....

Hell .....1 oz budsicles aren`t at ALL impossible since Heath hit 1 1/4 ozs on most of his seedplants straight 12/12 on his very first rack setup , but that`s Heath.........something to aspire to......

Don`t like the dome idea Anti.....Cover the walls behind and ceiling in reflectix ftw for better airflow and exchange.....and....I like Bobble`s idea of another level of plants on the floor for outrageous yield potential , but I understand there`s gotta be a limit ta work within.......or is there ?.......

No limits is my tail , and I`m standin on it...LOL.....

Peace......DHF.......... ..
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:30 AM #37
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Thanks for stopping by Red. You were my first exposure to vert growing. Maybe one day I'll go big like you.

For a third potential row "on the floor" are we talking about having them down in that open rectangle under the lights? I was under the impression that there was such a thing as "too close" to the lights. If that row was a similar size, the plants would be about a foot below the lights, but only inches away horizontally.

Do you think that would be workable? I'd have to raise the whole "table" up a foot to get more plants LOWER. Unless I had the bottom row two plants deep.

Suggestions?

I'm kinda leaning toward DHF in the "no need for so much space between" but I'm willing to listen to other people's thoughts on the matter. This has been designed so that the inside row will basically finish at the level of the second tier's soil, so there will be nothing blocking light from either tiers. The only things likely to overlap are fan leaves.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:42 PM #38
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Only one way to find out bro.

An advantage you have to your design is, if you go with the higher plant count, you can always pull out pots in the event of an overcrowding issue. You can't add more if you start with the lower plant count.... I still vote for the 76 version tho


I agree with DHF on losing the roof. You gonna want the heat from the 4oo's to have all the room it needs to escape. Reflectix all around will do plenty.


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The purpose was to metaphorically stack the deck with the best possible hand in the plants corner, so when we simply mimic rain, the plant can go all in.

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Old 03-23-2011, 10:11 PM #39
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Want to remind you that CMH bulbs are a health hazard for your eyes. Remember to take pre cautions with those in mind.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:54 PM #40
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Only one way to find out bro.

An advantage you have to your design is, if you go with the higher plant count, you can always pull out pots in the event of an overcrowding issue. You can't add more if you start with the lower plant count.... I still vote for the 76 version tho
I'm in the middle of re-sketching from the ground up at the moment. This new design places each plant in the center of it's own 4"x4" space. Will post in a day or so.

Quote:
I agree with DHF on losing the roof. You gonna want the heat from the 4oo's to have all the room it needs to escape. Reflectix all around will do plenty.
The basement has 6 ft high ceilings. You recommend no "internal" ceiling? What minimum height (above top tier) do you recommend?

Thanks for your help.
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