hello, i am using lc's soiless mix number 2, whic i made using 40% ocean forest, 20% light warrior, 20% earthworm castings, 20% perlite and 2 tablespoons of crushed lime per gallon of mix. i have vegged for 6 weeks and they seemed perfectly fine for the first 3 weeks. but since then they have slow and persistant signs of calcium deficincy and a little magnesium possibly too. the water is tap water that is airrated all the time at least 24 hours before use( for the chlorine). i dont use anything to adjust the ph of the water as i thought organics shouldnt need it (used apple cider vinigar last time). the ph of the water i use for watering happens to be 7.6 i checked today for the first time.i did a runnoff test of water ph and it is at 7.6 which leads me to beleive the lime in the soil isnt able to dissolve causeing a lack of calcium and magnesium. what do you experienced guys think? thanks much!
organic grow with a troubleing ph situation (first organic)
- Thread starter wonderful
- Start date
Clayton_Bigsby
Active member
Are you using crushed pelleted lime or powdered dolomite lime? the reason i ask it because the pelleted lime is still going to take more time to dissolve than the dolomite lime.
What strain are you using? I have a variety of strains and they all love my soil mix, ACCEPT the ICE. Shes a picky bitch and started showing the cal mag deficiencies during 4th week of flower. i added a gallon of water with molasses and dolomite lime and shes doing better now. I also use a similar mix to yours and never check the PH, even though i know my tap water is about 7.0.
What strain are you using? I have a variety of strains and they all love my soil mix, ACCEPT the ICE. Shes a picky bitch and started showing the cal mag deficiencies during 4th week of flower. i added a gallon of water with molasses and dolomite lime and shes doing better now. I also use a similar mix to yours and never check the PH, even though i know my tap water is about 7.0.
i am using pulverized lime (very fine) i have 4 kins kush and 1 white widdow and 1 critical mass 33. the kings kush is 1 week older than the others.and it was the first to show signs. i planned to use tap water from a buddy's house who lives in the city which he has a ph of about 7.0. do you think that it would help alone? or do you think i should try the dolomite lime/ molasses you used cause i have both the ingredients already.
You need a ACT treatment, Gotta recharge things and keep everyone thriving for a happy soil buffering environment. My 2 cents.
I have never had a 100% successful grow using straight water the whole time. Problems always turned up in the form of deficiency. Not when I use a weekly/by weekly ACT feeding.
Also, I dont want to start no problems but I have never had great results combining all Fox Farm soils to form a base. I don't know what it is, but it never worked well for me the first time threw using it.
Fresh peat moss, compost, and a good top soil I by at a nursery has always out did a Fox Farm base in my experience and cost much less.
S
Sat X RB
mate, if yr runoff pH is 7.6 it might be that the lime in yr ingredients is working very well indeed!
I don't know yr 'fox farm' stuff but very often propriety soils are supposed to be mixed with whatever is in yr garden. the producers assume yr garden soil will be acid (which it mostly is) so they bump up the pH of their 'soil' (I 've measured some prop spoils at 8!!!) to compensate for the garden soil's acidity. buy a soil pH test kit (not expensive) and find out what yr soil pH really is. checking this should have been done BEFORE planting.
you might also google "Mulders Chart" which will show you how an imbalance of one mineral might militate against the uptake of another mineral ... which I reckon might be happening in yr mix.
cheers and good luck!
I don't know yr 'fox farm' stuff but very often propriety soils are supposed to be mixed with whatever is in yr garden. the producers assume yr garden soil will be acid (which it mostly is) so they bump up the pH of their 'soil' (I 've measured some prop spoils at 8!!!) to compensate for the garden soil's acidity. buy a soil pH test kit (not expensive) and find out what yr soil pH really is. checking this should have been done BEFORE planting.
you might also google "Mulders Chart" which will show you how an imbalance of one mineral might militate against the uptake of another mineral ... which I reckon might be happening in yr mix.
cheers and good luck!
i have used 3 act teas so far, 2 veg teas(one was only worm castings guano and liquid karma) and one flower tea, one of the veg teas didnt get the guano strained out of it (yeah i know its bad) and kinda kicked off the beggining of the problems.
SAT X RB could you let me know what role soil ph plays? i always thought aoil ph wasnt important really
SAT X RB could you let me know what role soil ph plays? i always thought aoil ph wasnt important really
pH plays a vital role in soil. Organics doesnt mean pH just blows out the window homie so that is a big miss understanding most people have heard because they hear people constantly saying "I dont own a pH pen because im organic".
Being organic means the soil buffers the pH because it is blended with the correct amendments and humates but to assume pH doesnt matter is another story. You need to lower your pH and increase acidity so lime will not help here because you are over 7. You need humates such has EWC slurry or compost top dressed and watered in. Always a good idea to keep some citric acid on hand. Peatmoss could also help being that is pH is around 4.5.
High soil pH (alkalinity) reduces the availability of micronutrients such as iron, manganese, zinc, copper and cobalt, and creates forage production problems similar to increased acidity.
Basically your soil is lacking its buffering capacity to some extent and if I were you I would load up on fresh humates. IE fresh compost and EWC and good organic matter.
Here is a decent read on soill pH
http://www.kindgreenbuds.com/marijuana-grow-guide/raise-or-lower-soil-ph.html
I still blame Fox Farms. I used the same base for my last grow and ran into problems with it hardcore.
If you have problems after using a flowering guano, you probably overdid the Potassium, which can cause calcium lockouts.
Either way, the EWC or ACT tea will help..
If you think your plants need Cal/Mag immediately, mix some dolomite lime in water with a little pee (or other nitrogen source) and give em a foliar feeding.
Either way, the EWC or ACT tea will help..
If you think your plants need Cal/Mag immediately, mix some dolomite lime in water with a little pee (or other nitrogen source) and give em a foliar feeding.
it would help to see pictures.
there's been some great advice already.
I'm wondering what size container youre in and when was the last time you up-potted.
there's been some great advice already.
I'm wondering what size container youre in and when was the last time you up-potted.
J
jerry111165
Wonderful, lose the overpriced, overrated Foxfarms soil and build yourself a compost/vermicompost based quality soil mix. A well made organic soil does not need its pH checked and you will never use the word defficiencies again.
That word is for the hydro crowd - not organic gardeners.
jerry.
That word is for the hydro crowd - not organic gardeners.
jerry.
Jungle.Microbes
Member
^ exactly.. PH is practically irrelevant in organics. We're not feeding the plant available nutrients, we're feeding the micro herd in the soil to break down the organics and deliver them to the plant. I would suggest doing some research on the soil food web. In short, the plant will excrete various carbons from the root tips, which trigger specific microbes to deliver specific nutrients when the plant needs it.
Think of it as you are going to a restaurant. You ask your waiter for the food you want at that time, and then you eat it. If you went to a restaurant and looked unhappy with your first meal and the waiter kept shoving different types of food down your throat, I'm sure you wouldn't be very happy.
The best thing to fix any problem in soil is water with ACT, it will put the needed bacteria into your soil and they will go to work feeding your plant.
A good soil with organic matter present with weekly/biweekly ACT's will grow any plant from start to finish without issues, and will probably be your best plants ever grown.
Adding to the comment above, not only is PH for the hydro crowd, but so are all the bottled nutrients, boosters, and amendments. You can grow cannabis with next to nothing as long as you have active bacteria
Think of it as you are going to a restaurant. You ask your waiter for the food you want at that time, and then you eat it. If you went to a restaurant and looked unhappy with your first meal and the waiter kept shoving different types of food down your throat, I'm sure you wouldn't be very happy.
The best thing to fix any problem in soil is water with ACT, it will put the needed bacteria into your soil and they will go to work feeding your plant.
A good soil with organic matter present with weekly/biweekly ACT's will grow any plant from start to finish without issues, and will probably be your best plants ever grown.
Adding to the comment above, not only is PH for the hydro crowd, but so are all the bottled nutrients, boosters, and amendments. You can grow cannabis with next to nothing as long as you have active bacteria
J
jerry111165
JM, kudos to you my friend. Somebody that gets it. I myself was a bottle guy for many years. I was told that I needed those bottles or my garden wouldnt go to its potential. Once the bottles come into play, microbes get screwed up and yet another bottle is needed to fix the "problem".
A well constructed soil contains everything the plant needs - and it isnt much, to thrive from start to finish - and then some. it doesnt matter what you feed it - the plant and the microbes will decide what it needs and when it needs it. Just because you're trying to pour this or that down its throat doesnt mean that the plant will want it or use it. When its ready for it, it will gladly take it then, and not before. This is where the compost, earthworm castings and vermicompost components come into play. These items are the heart of a real, organic garden.
Then theres the folks that think that they can "flush" an organic soil. How can you flush what is part of the soil construct? I dont get it. Its simply not possible.
To show just how little plants need to thrive on, I now use the no-till method of organic gardening. The soil in my 12 galklon pots is approximately a year and a half old now, and plant #7 is thriving just as well as plant #1 did. On the day of harvest I dig out around a 1 gallon sized hole and drop in a new 1 gallon sized plant, topdress with some earthworm castings or kelp - whatevers handy, wet it and walk away. I use botanical teas throughout the grow as well as an ACT here and there and life is grand.
jerry.
A well constructed soil contains everything the plant needs - and it isnt much, to thrive from start to finish - and then some. it doesnt matter what you feed it - the plant and the microbes will decide what it needs and when it needs it. Just because you're trying to pour this or that down its throat doesnt mean that the plant will want it or use it. When its ready for it, it will gladly take it then, and not before. This is where the compost, earthworm castings and vermicompost components come into play. These items are the heart of a real, organic garden.
Then theres the folks that think that they can "flush" an organic soil. How can you flush what is part of the soil construct? I dont get it. Its simply not possible.
To show just how little plants need to thrive on, I now use the no-till method of organic gardening. The soil in my 12 galklon pots is approximately a year and a half old now, and plant #7 is thriving just as well as plant #1 did. On the day of harvest I dig out around a 1 gallon sized hole and drop in a new 1 gallon sized plant, topdress with some earthworm castings or kelp - whatevers handy, wet it and walk away. I use botanical teas throughout the grow as well as an ACT here and there and life is grand.
jerry.
thanks guys for all your good information, i have some pics for you to look at, i think it could be a phospherous overload from the unstrained guano tea feeding.
i am planning to use straight water untill it clears itself up.
i do want to do a good compost pile i just havent read enough about it yet to set it up.
i am planning to use straight water untill it clears itself up.
i do want to do a good compost pile i just havent read enough about it yet to set it up.
Attachments
at 3 weeks i used 1\3 cup mexican bat guano (10-2-0) per gallon of water brewed until foam was past peak. i didnt add anything else because i hadnt yet done my homework on how tea works.
at 4 weeks they recieved 1/3 cup mexican guano (10-2-0)
1/3 cup earthworm castings (i think 1-0-0)
3ml liquid seaweed (.1-.1-1.5)
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses per 5 gallons water
THIS WAS NOT STRAINED BEFORE FED TO THE PLANTS, THERE WAS A MAJOR MISCOMMUNICATION!
the symptoms i have currently then stared to appear
at 5 weeks there was another tea feeding just like the previous but was strained
symptoms only spread slowly untill..
at 6 weeks we flipped the lights
1 or 2 days after bloom tea was made
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (11-13-3)
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (again 1-0-0 ?)
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican) (0-13-0) indonesian or (1-10-0.2) Jamaican [i didnt brew it so i dont know]
3ml liquid seaweed (.1-.1-1.5)
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses per 5 gallons water
per 5 gallons
this was strained corectly and given to them shortly after peak head of foam
and now is the begining of week 2 from seed or begining of 2nd week of flower.
one plant has crazy curved leaves that definately seems like it is stressing!
at 4 weeks they recieved 1/3 cup mexican guano (10-2-0)
1/3 cup earthworm castings (i think 1-0-0)
3ml liquid seaweed (.1-.1-1.5)
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses per 5 gallons water
THIS WAS NOT STRAINED BEFORE FED TO THE PLANTS, THERE WAS A MAJOR MISCOMMUNICATION!
the symptoms i have currently then stared to appear
at 5 weeks there was another tea feeding just like the previous but was strained
symptoms only spread slowly untill..
at 6 weeks we flipped the lights
1 or 2 days after bloom tea was made
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (11-13-3)
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (again 1-0-0 ?)
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican) (0-13-0) indonesian or (1-10-0.2) Jamaican [i didnt brew it so i dont know]
3ml liquid seaweed (.1-.1-1.5)
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses per 5 gallons water
per 5 gallons
this was strained corectly and given to them shortly after peak head of foam
and now is the begining of week 2 from seed or begining of 2nd week of flower.
one plant has crazy curved leaves that definately seems like it is stressing!
Go about two or three weeks using only worm casting tea with liquid seaweed added per the label instructions on the bottle. This should stabilize your soil. Don't over water.
Keep us posted. At any time your plants will need plenty of nitrogen because of the rapid growth of stretching. Keep an eye on it.
Burn1
Keep us posted. At any time your plants will need plenty of nitrogen because of the rapid growth of stretching. Keep an eye on it.
Burn1
thank you BurnOne
i will start making the tea in the morning. should i strain the casting tea, i wont be using a stocking.
oh yeah i almost forgot, i went to the hydro store and picked up 5 gallons of reverse osmosis water. i dont know if im going to get more or not but i should have a week or 2 before i run out of it. maybe ill see an improvement maybe i wont but it was cheaper than buying gallons of water for the moment.
i will start making the tea in the morning. should i strain the casting tea, i wont be using a stocking.
oh yeah i almost forgot, i went to the hydro store and picked up 5 gallons of reverse osmosis water. i dont know if im going to get more or not but i should have a week or 2 before i run out of it. maybe ill see an improvement maybe i wont but it was cheaper than buying gallons of water for the moment.
