Sex and the OBBT

LadyLargely said:

Just because you do something for a long time doesn't mean you know everything, or even a lot, about it. I find that people who have been involved in a particular hobby or industry for a long time start to get all voodoo about things. Your cousin's convincing himself that he could smell early sex is a fine example. I'm sure the man was a fine gardener, lots of experience, but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong.

As for what I've taught rrog I would say it has been a bit more than 'not a damn thing'

If you would turn your attention to the very top of this thread. What does it say? Oh goodness! He's asking about OBBTs? Gee golly DalaiHempy, who the fuck came up with OBBTs? Yea.

So in fact the entire precedence of this conversation is based on things that rrog has learned from me. I happen to think that I've reached a greater harmony with nature than most gardeners bother to do. Certainly much more so than you have, what with your soil-less non-organic grow method! Why the fuck are you in here again? I know you don't read very well Hempy but the title of this particular corner of the forums starts with the word "Organic"

I happen to be teaching rrog, along with a decent chunk of this community I might add, about a new and interesting all-organic grow method. You have never done any such thing. Until you have you may keep your opinions concerning organic gardening to yourself.

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Lady i read very well and read your bull shit fine infact as do many who are saying nothing but watching this unfold.

I grow in hydro i also have experemented with organic hydro infact and who are you to tell me were and what i should be doing in icmag any way.

I have grown in soil useing organics also for many years and grew up on a farm were we grew organicly then still grew organicly off the farm so you agine have no clue no suprise now im asking you to go play in your post and stop stalking me for the last time its becomeing silly know and im not intrested in your advances your not my type as i like wemen that have intelect and a warm personality lol.

By the way i plan on showing people once i get it right how to do organic hydro in a simple way with no pumps and with little effert that will yield and have resolts even for the most newbie grower but untill im happy i want.

Heres an organic hydro grown ssh in veg just for you lady.

Hempy, I know that you're a very fine person. You took an unwarranted slap really early on (months ago before LadyL) when your famous Hempy buckets were criticized. I was sad to read that. But that was in the past.

Thank you for your concern here also. But I'm OK. What I lack in direct experience I make up for (a teeny bit) by asking endless questions. So I'm about as apprised as possible before pulling the trigger.

I'm entirely fascinated by the OBBT, and if LadyL and DM say the these conditions produce predominantly females, them I'm willing to try. I'm a scientist. And if they all turn out to be males, I'm really OK with starting over. But I am swayed by their words. Time will tell, but I'm going to try very hard to exactly replicate what LadyL is doing.

It's a great adventure for me.

Hahaha! What the fuck is that thing? Tall, thin, spindly, poor vigor, poor definition, very poor distribution of bud locations. I've seen much nicer cannabis plants growing on their own, wild in the outdoors.

I can see why you would skirt aside organics if that is the culmination of what your organic gardening can get you. If you got any decent budmass on it (which you won't) it would fall right over! How much wattage is it under? Tall and spindly as it is none of the lower leaves are dying off so I'm guessing its under a very large HID. 1000 watt HPS? If that plant is the best you can get from organics under such high-powered lighting, well, then you have my pity sir.

Take a seat over in my grow show. Srsly, you'll learn a lot, I think everyone will.

Oh, and I'm sorry I'm not your type. Damn. Really had the hots for you DalaiHempy. You know that I'm mean to you just because I think you're so damn sexy

LadyLargely said:

Hahaha! What the fuck is that thing? Tall, thin, spindly, poor vigor, poor definition, very poor distribution of bud locations. I've seen much nicer cannabis plants growing on their own, wild in the outdoors.

I can see why you would skirt aside organics if that is the culmination of what your organic gardening can get you. If you got any decent budmass on it (which you won't) it would fall right over! How much wattage is it under? Tall and spindly as it is none of the lower leaves are dying off so I'm guessing its under a very large HID. 1000 watt HPS? If that plant is the best you can get from organics under such high-powered lighting, well, then you have my pity sir.

Take a seat over in my grow show. Srsly, you'll learn a lot, I think everyone will.

Oh, and I'm sorry I'm not your type. Damn. Really had the hots for you DalaiHempy. You know that I'm mean to you just because I think you're so damn sexy

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You have no clue what so ever lady that thing you call thin, spindly, poor vigor, poor definition, very poor distribution of bud locations is a sat expresive SuperSilverHaze plant that stood around 4 ft in that picture that was in veg still and it had a lot of the shade leaf removed before the picture.

I have posted full grow reports from seed germination untill harvest for years i run less than 40 watts per sq foot and i achive very good resolts the best from a single plant yield to dates been over 19 oz cured from a thin, spindly, poor vigor, poor definition, very poor distribution of bud locations looking plant as you put it but from salt / mineral nutients you realy are an amature and a nasty peace of work.

I find it amazing that even a simple post like this wich in reality is about sexing of plants can leed to this.


Organic hydroponics is not new and many commercial hydroponic growers are turning to it with good resolts most are useing coco as there medium lots of info on it but for me a perfict organic hydro method is something that will achive good resolts with little to no effert apart from feeding them and a method even a newbie can do.

Heh, this is really funny.

I was worried that in my absence DalaiHempy wouldn't have someone to fight with, but it looks like he's found someone that pisses him off even more than me!

rrog

You need to decide things for yourself brah. Don't take any one person's opinion in as fact. Read the info, weigh the options, read up on the users who answer your questions. Read their previous posts and try to see if their opinion is worth anything to you. This is called making informed decisions and it is a practice that doesn't happen enough these days.

As for early warning/control of the sex of cannabis, well:

http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/reprint/94/4/1535

That would be some very hard and fast science which suggests that the gender of single-sex plants (cannabis was included in the test) can be controlled completely! I used a similar, though less scientific, approach to making cannabis turn female for years. Lady L should be letting you guys in on the various techniques we used to do this. I see she plans to put her money where her mouth is, starting 5 sprouts from mixed seed with no backups. We'll see if she really can do 5/5. If she does, DalaiHempy may have to eat his words. And just look at them, I bet they don't taste very good

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

I am in all the way with this. I don't have anything at all to risk. I like building these things, have cash for supplies, and have plenty of weed in storage from my last grow.

If I grow all males, I don't care. I'll yank them and do over. No biggie.

I'm going in with an open mind, and am willing to roll the dice.

Hey, DM and company, could you remind me what are the exact steps that it is best to put in place to get 95% females from regular seeds?

As far as I've understood the hormons/enzyms/gases which can give more females are ethilene, giberellic acid, cytokinin and alginic acid (the one of the pills). The principal phases in which you can affect sex are: before germination (see banana method), during germination (soaking seeds), advanced seedlings phase (usually described as "the phase when the seedlings get their third pair of true leaves).

About your method, what products containing cytokinins do you use to soak the seeds? At which concentration? Do you soak seeds for 24 hours?

In the seedling phase, do you supply cytokinins by foliar feeding from the beginning or do you wait till a certain week / a number of leaf pairs? Using your normal foliar formula or a diluted one? Always once a week?

Does the application of cytokinin in the successive vegetative phase affect sex as well, or at that point is too late?

I hope to hear more from you, maybe also some comments about the other stuff mentioned above.
Ciao
Ripman

rrog said:

I am in all the way with this. I don't have anything at all to risk. I like building these things, have cash for supplies, and have plenty of weed in storage from my last grow.

If I grow all males, I don't care. I'll yank them and do over. No biggie.

I'm going in with an open mind, and am willing to roll the dice.

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Just a thought, and I may be all wet, but, if you are following the recipe of either LL or DM you are front loading the medium with veg nutes, high N with all the kelp meal. So, why don't you just veg in the OBBT? From what I remember of DM's thread his veg period is only 20 days from seedling till the switch. Less than the 5 weeks you are talking about.
But maybe I got something mixed up.
If I did, please correct me DM, since I am still learning this myself and do not want to give bad info or jump in the middle of a bitchfest.(which I probably just did.)

Indeed. Vegging in the OBBTs is spectacular, especialy from seedlings. Its cheating. It allows you to run very tiny plants exposed to massive quantities of nutrients. Normally this many free-radicals in the medium would kill a seedling dead as a hammer. However in the OBBT all of the nutritional content is captured by the fungus and therefore safe to expose small plants to.

I think rrog plans to run clones out of necessity. Clones in the OBBTs are a mystery to me. However something tells me it may be possible to root clones straight into an active OBBT, taken right off of the mother plant! User RipVanWeed has had success rooting very advanced clones into an active OBBT. However his ladies experienced some culture shock as they went from low-nutrition cloning soil to supercharged OBBT medium! This didn't seem to impede their suprisingly rapid growth, but they are looking a wee bit worse for wear.

Some experimentation will be neccessary, but it sounds like rrog is willing to do so!

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

I was never doing clones. Always my plan was seeds.

I am going to jump in the deep end with this and go seedlings planted right in the OBBT. If I get females, great. If I get males, I'll toss them and re-start. Im in no hurry.

I'd like to try the exact EXACT plan as outlined by DM and LL. That includes crossing my fingers and hoping for females.

I am not looking to experiment with any parameters at all (any more...)

DrunkenMessiah said:

I think rrog plans to run clones out of necessity. Clones in the OBBTs are a mystery to me. However something tells me it may be possible to root clones straight into an active OBBT, taken right off of the mother plant! User RipVanWeed has had success rooting very advanced clones into an active OBBT. However his ladies experienced some culture shock as they went from low-nutrition cloning soil to supercharged OBBT medium! This didn't seem to impede their suprisingly rapid growth, but they are looking a wee bit worse for wear.

Some experimentation will be neccessary, but it sounds like rrog is willing to do so!

Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

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This is what I am planning to do when I get the OBBT innoculated. Put cuttings straight into the OBBT. I'll post that as it happens.

McDanger It will be very interesting to see how these clones take off with out a misting unit. you could also try putting a half 2 litre plastic bottle over the top of each cutting to assist its misting so that it helps with the rooting if they dry out to quickly. I put 4 x 4" -5" ( 100mm) clones that had been in a cloner for 3 weeks . These have taken off very fast . they are getting up to 10-12 "" after 17 days of straight into 12/12 and are looking very strong and vigorous. If you are going straight into 12/12 with your clone it would be very interesting if you dropped a seed into another obbt and went 12/12 with that to compare the diffirence.
.

rrog said:

I was never doing clones. Always my plan was seeds.

I am going to jump in the deep end with this and go seedlings planted right in the OBBT. If I get females, great. If I get males, I'll toss them and re-start. Im in no hurry.

I'd like to try the exact EXACT plan as outlined by DM and LL. That includes crossing my fingers and hoping for females.

I am not looking to experiment with any parameters at all (any more...)

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Heh, typical DrunkenMess behavior. Too much talking and not enough listening!

If you are starting from seed then yea, definitely go right into the medium. Crack those fuckers in moist paper towels and then stick the fledgling little babies straight in! Their little tap-root will be bound to the mycelium network within minutes of being put in place.

After the long incubation period and having completely conquered the medium the fungus is desperate to fruit. Mycorrhizae can only produce fruit in the presence of the roots of terrestrial plants. This rapid binding is what makes starting seed in the OBBT so special.

Everyone who has given it a shot so far has been starting with clones. Rrog, as one of the first to fire up a grow straight from seed you will be in for a special treat.

Cloning is great. It brings predictability and the wonders of perpetual harvest. No guesswork. But I hate it! Clones are rubbish! I'm going to say it here first: Cloning is for pussies!

Seed-started cannabis is always more vigorous. It just is. I am a firm believer in biological inertia and I think that the energy with which new cannabis plants spring fourth from their seed casings is carried all the way to the end of flower. I've been gifted clones from fellow cultivators to try out in my tubs and I'm sorry, they just can't compare.

I once had a race. I was lucky enough to obtain both a clone and some beans from the lovely strain ICE. The clone was well-established and more than 10 inches tall when I first cracked the seeds. An enormous head-start. By the third week of flower the seed-started plants had blown the clone out of the water. They steamed right past it. The clone never made up the lost ground, it didn't even yield 2/3 of what the seed-started plants did. Identical genetics, identical grow environment and the clone didn't even come close.

I'm kicking myself for not having documented this. I've experimented a lot since I started cultivating. Many of the early experiments where failures and so I got discouraged. Even when my work started to be successful I wasn't bothered about taking pictures.

But that is set to change! The OBBTs are an experiment no more. Finger-crossing will not be neccessary on your part rrog! This is a tried and true method and I intend to prove it.

Very glad you have decided to calm down a bit on the experimentation. Trust me, I've already done a lot of that bullshit for you. I think everyone interested in experimenting with the OBBTs should run a set of the standard tubs first. Follow my instructions to the letter. (That means you too Citizen024) With a solid round under your belt your understanding of the process will be phenominally better. I think only then will you be properly equipped to experiment.

I have really enjoyed being opened up to the world of plant pro-biotics. It really has been fascinating.

Hehehe, we're not even to the good part yet rrog! Check out stage 2 of the supercharged Lacto B culture over in the Grow Show. Soon we'll be mixing up our magical foliar spray and organic teas in which the Lacto B plays a critical role. The fun has just begun!!

Oh I'm tuned in all right.

Hey Lady, I know DM says his track record for females from regular seeds is around 90-95%... what about you? Do you have any special tecnique while soaking seeds and germinating? Do you foliar feed anything in the seedling and vegetative phase?