Help On Diagnosing Problem On First Grow...

BP75 · May 22, 2015

Hello Guys...
I need a little help with my babies...
i am growing in coco hempys with grodan croutons on reservoir.
babies are 2 cheese from VisionSeeds. they sprouted 3.5 weeks ago and were topped 3-4 days ago. in their early life i fed them low ph for around 10 days because my meter was not calibrated. hte suffered a little and when i got my ph in order i underfed them because of fear of burning them and they were pale green and looked unhealthy,this is them 10 days ago

i suspected i had CalMag defficiency because this is how they evolved...

this may have been the case even if feed them with 280ppm tap water quite rich in calcium and supplement with mineralmagic rich in magnesium and silicate but i was underfeeding with my GH Flora line Hard water. i upped the nutes... currently on 7ml micro, 7ml grow, 7ml bloom and they recovered a little and look much more healthy... but begin to show some problems
first this leaf

then i've noticed this last week, there are some rusty not so long stripes like this

they seem to burn the leaf between the veins
last thing are these holes...it seems smth is chewing on the plants

overall the babies look much better than before but i don't want to let this situation get out of hand..

thanks in advance to everyone for every advice or opinion.

Ras Mason · May 23, 2015

HI buddy.
dilute your nutes in half, watch.
If symptoms persist, flush with clean water ph 6.0.
They look great.
rm

BP75 · May 24, 2015

Ras Mason said:
HI buddy.
dilute your nutes in half, watch.
If symptoms persist, flush with clean water ph 6.0.
They look great.
rm

hey ras do you think this is just a problem of feeding program and not to do anything with bugs...
some one is saying to me that i maybe have bugs...

_tessarecting · May 24, 2015

Spray weekly as preventative measure (azamax is good) and do what Ras said.

BP75 · May 28, 2015

un update...
i reckon i am obsessing with them... but i know its because i want this first grow to be a success...
problems seem to develop more in the days i don't feed... i did not fed yeasterday and today i found the necrosis being worse and a lot of leaves were twisted and looked like stressed not at all shiny and straight...
pics of slower girl( the more affected one) which is showing new damage..

overall foto

pics of the healthier one this is showing less damage but slow overall grow...

overall foto
damage...

i don't know what is causing them... i tried to wait longer before feeding...but could not goe longer than every two days because they immediately show stress signs the day they don't recieve nutes...
i plan to do a flush if problems persist and then wait for them to dry good before i feed again supplementing with cal-mag which i ordered because of suspecting that a cal.mag def. may cause these disorders...
thanks in advance for every advice...

Ras Mason · May 28, 2015

proceed as planned.
youre good buddy.
rm

BP75 · May 28, 2015

thanks Ras for your support... cheers man

GREENGOLDEN123 · May 28, 2015

If in doubt flush it out

Lester Beans · May 28, 2015

The problem is lack of food, flushing will only amplify that. Up the food in small increments and you will see progress. Make sure your water is pH proper after mixing food.

BP75 · May 28, 2015

Lester Beans said:
The problem is lack of food, flushing will only amplify that. Up the food in small increments and you will see progress. Make sure your water is pH proper after mixing food.

you may be right... they showed a great response/great growth and above all they turned from yellowish/light green to the colour they have now after i upped my nutes from 400ppm (280 of which from tap water and 120 from nutes) to 600ppm(280ppm from tap water and 320 from nutes) and testament to your above affirmation they seem to get better when watered every day... also the runoff when i feed 600ppm nutes is barely 300ppm... ill try to up the nutes constantly and monitor for burn...
thank u all people.

_tessarecting · May 28, 2015

Filter your water if you can.

BP75 · May 29, 2015

_tessarecting said:
Filter your water if you can.

you mean my tap water... with smth like those carbon filters to eliminate odour and taste ... ???
like this brita one:
http://www.amazon.com/Brita-10-Cup-...32862593&sr=8-11&keywords=carbon+water+filter

i just let the water sit for 24-48 hr to make chlorine evaporate and use it cause i can't afford or install a r/o water...

BP75 · Jun 2, 2015

well i wanted to make an update in search of help to sort out my problem and hoping this experience maybe helping someone else with this kind of problems...
update ....
i really don't know what to think... this problem is persisting and i feel like it will compromise my eventual yield if i don't get it right asap...
the girls have grown a little but all the new growth has been showing issues
necrosis and leaf twisting issues...
overall they look decent but they show unhealthy growing all over them...

these are the new syntoms...plant on the left...

plant on the right...

i've aded cal-max from grotek @ 3 ml but did not see any improvement...
now i don't know if it's better to continue feed them maybe @ slightly higher PH like 6.00 for example or if i have to flush them good and then let them dry a little and then feed again after flushing...
i wanted to switch to flower in a few days but i don't know if its better to wait for them to become a little more healthy...
get me some advice please...

StrangeClouds · Jun 2, 2015

Your problem looks a lot like the one I was having. High Temps and too much water was my issue. Having a fan blowing directly on them will cause some twisting too from my personal experience. I let mine dry out and perk up a bit. Then cut my watering in half. Solved my issues. Your water is the same ppm as mine from the tap. I don't add calmag or any calcium supplement to my water because of this.

BP75 · Jun 2, 2015

StrangeClouds said:
Your problem looks a lot like the one I was having. High Temps and too much water was my issue. Having a fan blowing directly on them will cause some twisting too from my personal experience. I let mine dry out and perk up a bit. Then cut my watering in half. Solved my issues. Your water is the same ppm as mine from the tap. I don't add calmag or any calcium supplement to my water because of this.

thanks StrangeClouds for passing by... appreciate it.
i began feeding them every two days instead of every day but maybe i should try and let them go three days... i was suspicious about cal-mag but i wanted to try it... i also think it probably isn't necessary. do you have a link with these problems you experienced Strange??? this is how i found them this morning...

this is all damage in the once healthier one that is showing now slow growth probably because her new growth is damaged and stressed...

stihgnobevoli · Jun 2, 2015

i was gonna say maybe a little hungry on the first pics. but watching it progress id say check your pH your plants isn't growing nearly fast enough to be showing these signs if you've still been feeding food.
last pic looks like overfed. i would flush plain water and check pH

also pics of the whole plant are more useful than closeups of the leaves.

BP75 · Jun 2, 2015

stihgnobevoli said:
i was gonna say maybe a little hungry on the first pics. but watching it progress id say check your pH your plants isn't growing nearly fast enough to be showing these signs if you've still been feeding food.
last pic looks like overfed. i would flush plain water and check pH

also pics of the whole plant are more useful than closeups of the leaves.

Thanks man... i will flush today... should i feed immediately or wait for them to dry...
also i will post some whole plant fotos soon but i wanted to inform i always measure my runoff which lately has been: watering with 5.7-5.9 ph and 700ppm water and getting 5.7-6.0 ph and 270ppm the ppm data has been rising from the initial 270ppm to 380ppm in the last feed because i've progressively upped the nutes.in the last feeding the sickest of the girls outputted a ph of 5.6 but i don't think its out of range...
could it be that i always have fed until 40%-50% runoff...i know its a lot but i wanted to avoid salt buildup...

BP75 · Jun 3, 2015

so i flushed yesterday with like 1.5 gallon each plain tap(265ppm) water ph @ 5.95...
i noticed that the runoff was consistent enough ... the first one giving somewhere around 400ppm( strangely enough it got down to 380ppm but in the end finished with 400ppm again) and 5.7ph ...
the other one gave an initial runoff of 435ppm down to 390ppm and a ph that was initially 5.5...which is strange because i never fed them lower than 5.7... anyway it got up to 5.65 in the end...
reading another thread here i came to the conclusion that preparing the water once a week is not a good idea since ph always gets up and i need to always add ph down before every feeding to the same water this is probably creating some sort of ph down buildup in the medium which is GH PH down by the way ( a mix of acids) and this maybe the cause of the leaf twisting or some kind of nutrient imbalance caused by slighlty acidic coco...
i am no way sure about this even more so because canna coco pro which i'm using is said to have a ph buffering agent and keeps ph balanced...
lets see how they react after i feed them with a dose of 700ppm nutes and ph 6.0 this next time...

BP75 · Jun 5, 2015

here is un update ... i flushed 3days before and fed slightly weaker nutes yesterday, after two days ...ph @ 6.00 and runoff came a little low on 5.45 ph in one and 5.65 on the other...
they drank like never before i fed them 2.5l each with smth like 15% runoff.they looked like this before lights got down today...
first babe...

second babe...

both of them

i don't see any improvement from the flush...
i wanted to start 12/12 today even though ideally i would have liked to wait...this is not possible because i need them to finish in the next 60-63 days... breeder says they are ready in 60 days so lets hove they flower fast.
i saw some pistils a few days ago from preflowers , that means they are ready in theory...even though they already have turned brown... new ones will pop up...
i reaaly hope these syntomps clear up with the flowering schedule...

Kweku Ananse · Jun 5, 2015

BP75 said:
so i flushed yesterday with like 1.5 gallon each plain tap(265ppm) water ph @ 5.95...
i noticed that the runoff was consistent enough ... the first one giving somewhere around 400ppm( strangely enough it got down to 380ppm but in the end finished with 400ppm again) and 5.7ph ...
the other one gave an initial runoff of 435ppm down to 390ppm and a ph that was initially 5.5...which is strange because i never fed them lower than 5.7... anyway it got up to 5.65 in the end...
reading another thread here i came to the conclusion that preparing the water once a week is not a good idea since ph always gets up and i need to always add ph down before every feeding to the same water this is probably creating some sort of ph down buildup in the medium which is GH PH down by the way ( a mix of acids) and this maybe the cause of the leaf twisting or some kind of nutrient imbalance caused by slighlty acidic coco...
i am no way sure about this even more so because canna coco pro which i'm using is said to have a ph buffering agent and keeps ph balanced...
lets see how they react after i feed them with a dose of 700ppm nutes and ph 6.0 this next time...

Good conclusion. pH EVERYTIME. Even when BongHits says "plain water" - use plain, pH'd water. I would say your plants look like the pH is too high, and overwatered. I agree the first looked underfed, but you seem to be on track with that.

Personally, if you're in coco, especially with no perlite... cant remember if you mentioned perlite... let some more oxygen get to the roots, water every other day? My plants are small, and I water them like once every five days... even with your size I wouldn't be watering every day yet...

Let them dry a lil (maybe up the ppm another ~50of your base nutes) and I believe you'll see an improvement.

I want to comment on your Cal-Mag usage, since I've been trying a lot of different brands during my first gro... but I need to look up. See my next post for a conclusion!

To be continued...

Help On Diagnosing Problem On First Grow...

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