Twisted, bent and malformed leaves

raphenilweed · Jan 11, 2017

Hi there. This problem is persistent through a number of my runs in different locations. Different climate s and nutrient regimes.
Purple petiols, small white dots, abnormal leaves. It's not bugs for sure, very thorough bug extermination routine and scope analysis. The water out of tap is 44 ppm and about 40ppm in calcium and iron. Add MgSO4 to every watering. Moms, clones, veg, flower in all stages the symptoms are there. I have an idea what it is but that's a 250$ test.
Having problems uploading am working on it but I will post this and work on pixtures. Sorry using cell phone.

raphenilweed · Jan 11, 2017

Pics

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raphenilweed · Jan 11, 2017

raphenilweed · Jan 11, 2017

Re-ammended soil but also happens in ebb/flow system.

mango420 · Jan 11, 2017

What ph and ppm are u at when feeding?

HillMizer · Jan 11, 2017

Sure looks like russets, you said you were sure though. They can be tough to spot.

EastCoast710 · Jan 11, 2017

have seen this.. from. going from a veg tent to flower tent were humidity and light intensity was diff.. seen it from nutes.. I got no bugs.. maybe a fungus gnat or two LITERALLY.. but other than that.. happens during transplant sometimes.. usually grows right out of it ..

raphenilweed · Jan 11, 2017

@Mango420 the pictures are from different locations. The ebb/flow mothers run between 5.2-5.8, and under LED. My ppm meter is out of battery juice but stick with the light feeding recommendations and would guess based on previous measurements 750-900ppm.
In the veg area under t5s they in soil and get fed pH 5.8-6.0 and fed a light 3-2-4 and fish emulsion 2--1-1 plus cal/mg MgSO4. Moms in soil too.
In the flower room pH 5.8-6.0 and ppm 900-1300 in soil under hps. Two flower rooms with different nutes 1 organic/conventional and the other conventional.
Sulphur burn once a week for 3 hours. The leaves have been larger, stems thickened up and improved growth since starting the S burn schedule.
Foliar spray schedule with microminerals, kelp, fulvic, silica, organicide, aminos, enzymes, water. Not all at the same time of course they get rotated thru.
Moms annd veg went through a vigorous bug decon a few months back. Pylon, forbid, pyganic, rinse, dr zymes, green clean, rinse, azamax, neem, rinse, beneficial bacteria. Shop went through a rotation of different bug bombs as well. So no bugs. Previous rounds have used tobacco juice spray and essiential oils.

My honest guess is TMV and like I said a 250$ test which is out of budget right now.
I have another guess of it being caused by off gassing from plastic panda film. Both flower rooms have this in common but veg rooms do not. The shop is made out of engineered wood products. Im wondering if this is a factor but one flower room is in another structure. The symptoms occured in outdoor run but we're not as prominent.

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

I had this same problem about 2 weeks ago. It ended up being russet and broad mites. Had to dip the whole plant into a GreenCleaner/Neem Oil mix and finished it off with a nematode drink. Took a little work, but saved them.

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

HillMizer said:
Sure looks like russets, you said you were sure though. They can be tough to spot.

This guy... He knows the struggle.

Loc Dog · Jan 22, 2017

StonedSpook said:
I had this same problem about 2 weeks ago. It ended up being russet and broad mites. Had to dip the whole plant into a GreenCleaner/Neem Oil mix and finished it off with a nematode drink. Took a little work, but saved them.

I would have said russet, due to the brown edges. I had russett and thrips. You have to thoroughly check bottom of several leaves with strong microscope. Will never find with magnifying glass. I found an average of 2 on each mangy leaf.

This is what broad mite damage looks like. I had them another time -

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

Loc Dog said:
I would have said russet, due to the brown edges. I had russett and thrips. You have to thoroughly check bottom of several leaves with strong microscope. Will never find with magnifying glass. I found an average of 2 on each mangy leaf.

This is what broad mite damage looks like. I had them another time -

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51120&pictureid=1680755&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

I dont have a solid close up, but hopefully you can see what I am talking about. This pic shows some of the damage from the broad and russet. You can see the damage on the centered sun leaf and the twisted, missing leaves leaf above it.

russej05 · Jan 22, 2017

Looks like russet

Loc Dog · Jan 22, 2017

If you can not afford to toss the plants, try this -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=268311

Between grows spray bleach everywhere, and if possible get the grow area over 120F for an hour.

I would continue to use the Neem Oil till you are sure they are gone. I have heard of people moving because of Broad Mites.

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

Loc Dog said:
If you can not afford to toss the plants, try this -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=268311

Between grows spray bleach everywhere, and if possible get the grow area over 120F for an hour.

I would continue to use the Neem Oil till you are sure they are gone. I have heard of people moving because of Broad Mites.

You talking to me or the OP?

Moving? NO WAY!!! Thats so scary to think about.. The plants were given to me, late in veg. They were fairly sickly. I have a journal in New Growers.

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

StonedSpook said:
You talking to me or the OP?

Moving? NO WAY!!! Thats so scary to think about.. The plants were given to me, late in veg. They were fairly sickly. I have a journal in New Growers.

Disregard. Thanks for the link. It is awesome info. Thats what its all about, the CannaCommunity sharing and leading each other to the water for a drink. Thanks man.

StonedSpook · Jan 22, 2017

I was doing some reading on VPD, Vapor Pressure Deffic. My rooms, currently, are a bit on the cool side. Averaging 71degrees and 32%. Would this potentially mess up the roots, lock em out/smother them, and cause similar symptoms as russet or broad mites?

Ganoderma · Jan 30, 2017

raphenilweed said:
@Mango420 the pictures are from different locations. The ebb/flow mothers run between 5.2-5.8, and under LED. My ppm meter is out of battery juice but stick with the light feeding recommendations and would guess based on previous measurements 750-900ppm.
In the veg area under t5s they in soil and get fed pH 5.8-6.0 and fed a light 3-2-4 and fish emulsion 2--1-1 plus cal/mg MgSO4. Moms in soil too.
In the flower room pH 5.8-6.0 and ppm 900-1300 in soil under hps. Two flower rooms with different nutes 1 organic/conventional and the other conventional.
Sulphur burn once a week for 3 hours. The leaves have been larger, stems thickened up and improved growth since starting the S burn schedule.
Foliar spray schedule with microminerals, kelp, fulvic, silica, organicide, aminos, enzymes, water. Not all at the same time of course they get rotated thru.
Moms annd veg went through a vigorous bug decon a few months back. Pylon, forbid, pyganic, rinse, dr zymes, green clean, rinse, azamax, neem, rinse, beneficial bacteria. Shop went through a rotation of different bug bombs as well. So no bugs. Previous rounds have used tobacco juice spray and essiential oils.

My honest guess is TMV and like I said a 250$ test which is out of budget right now.
I have another guess of it being caused by off gassing from plastic panda film. Both flower rooms have this in common but veg rooms do not. The shop is made out of engineered wood products. Im wondering if this is a factor but one flower room is in another structure. The symptoms occured in outdoor run but we're not as prominent.

I'm going to say your PH is TOO low for soil! Your PH for you hydro goes too low too!

Student Of Life · Jan 30, 2017

When you checked for bugs, did you use a 60x scope or greater? You cannot spot russet/broads without a scope of at least 60x. And I agree with ganoderma, your pH is too low. pH issues can cause your plant to look like almost any other issue.. nute burn, deficiencies, mite damage, heat stress, etc.

hyposomniac · Feb 6, 2017

Updates? Hope you dont mind me jacking your thread raphenil but Im having similar issues that have progressed into weird deformities..
Any of this?

Twisted, bent and malformed leaves

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