New Greenhouse and operational advice with employees

CrushnYuba said:

I think yall shouldn't be giving Smith too hard of a time. I don't think y'all realize that the grow he is talking about isn't really that big. It's norcal. We grow cannabis for a living here. No one gives me shit for my unlicensed "commercial" cannabis production. I already had all this land and infrastructure in place before the new licencing system came about. I was doing things legally under the old system when it was put up. And I'm just not convinced buying into the new state will be profitable.
Smith: i am happy with my power situation for growing. I don't like that weed warehouses pay less for power then i do at my primary residence that i don't even grow much at. I think we should encourage smart use of resources.
Why wouldn't low separate tunnels with high sidewalls be cheaper to heat and cool? Gutter connecting makes sidewall vents useless. Fan venting and wet wall cooling only works a short distance. It comes in cool but 40ft into the greenhouse, it's just hot moist air. A tall 24' wide greenhouse with high sidewall vents and a low peek to trap air will be the same temp inside as outside with no fan or water cooling. Then throw high pressure mist system in and it will be cooler then outside. And this is uniform temperature down the whole greenhouse that you won't get with fan cooling. Venting sidewall to sidewall is much shorter then endwall to endwall. Misters down the whole greenhouse that has sidewall vents is more uniform then cooling at one side and pulling to the other.
Tall peaks in gutter connected systems can't be heated efficiently. You have to make the space smaller with curtains. Starts to get very complicated for what? Why not make it easy to heat and cool by design instead of complicated ways to make something inefficient efficient.

I'm not saying not to use curtains. Just use them to make something that's already efficient even more efficient! Every layer of plastic/fabric adds to insulation. But a layer 20 ft up in the air aint doing shit.

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I got quoted up to 20 degree temp drops with the evaps. That was quoted for the entire 10k greenhouse. I will ask more questions about the drop off in effective cooling over a very large greenhouse, but I would be surprised if they didn't take that into consideration. Thanks for the heads up.

Misters will be used also, good idea there.

What do others think about this.....?

Operational costs go up when you have to cool the greenhouse, as appose to heat. I am not talking energy used, I am talking crop operational costs. People agree?

Smith111 said:

What do others think about this.....?

Operational costs go up when you have to cool the greenhouse, as appose to heat. I am not talking energy used, I am talking crop operational costs. People agree?

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Appalachians, temperate, decent sun, good humidity, never too cold nor hot.... Just waiting on the machine - S. Eastern Kentucky, N Eastern Tennessee & Western NC to me seems like great place under cover, especially if you're not focused on the tropicals which it seems very, very few truly are....

Plenty of places like this out there too, just everything costs more....

Cheers

It depends on sup lighting. In Co mo sunlight means more energy to the plant but produces heat. Nothing beats a 100 degree gh with 80% humidity...sucks to work in but holy shit

When it gets colder yield drops like a rock without sup lights

I'm not sure what you mean by operational costs other then energy. What other kind it's there? Nutrients and labor? Off season growing is very expensive. Heat is pricey and even with intense sup lighting, yield is reduced. Evap cooling is very cheap.
So the quote of UP TO 20f temp reductions is standard for all evap cooling. That is the most you can reduce temps with evap. House swamp coolers, misters, greenhouse wet walls. It works well in our dry summers. But solar gain Is just a fact. It will be cool at the point of evaporation but Sun will heat it down the greenhouse. Only way to reduce that is to reduce solar ( shade cloth), make the distance shorter ( sidewall vents or shorter greenhouses), or move the air faster then it can heat up ( exhaust). There is only so fast you can exhaust before it turns into a wind tunnel. You would be surprised how fast it can heat up. Don't underestimate solar gain. There is a reason they call solar gain the "greenhouse affect". Misters don't make much sense without sidewall vents. It just won't be more affective then wet wall cooling. Once air has been cooled by evap, it can't be cooled again with evap. Air already contains moisture.
The reason high pressure misters and sidewall vents are more affective is entry points of hot dry air, evaporation points ( misters) and exit points of moist air going down the whole length of the greenhouse.
I cool my house with a swamp cooler ( same as a greenhouse wet wall), but that's because it's insulated and doesn't have solar gain. For greenhouses it has never worked well for me endwall to endwall.

Look on you tube , light dep one man op green house, turn key units !

I see all these massive greenhouse operations / multi million dollar setups and i wonder why more people arent just going for the cheapest / lowest cost there is.

I like how rawgarden on instagram grows. I dont remember if they actually dep, and there in salinas which is cooler, but my point is there keeping things very simple.

2 deps a year july 1st and oct 1-15th

Speaking about strains what strains are good for outdoor and GH mold resistance? Old Reliables and Clone Only's?

When I used to commercial vegetable greenhouse farm, we had different setups and greenhouses built and tested them. Micro high pressure misters were a humidity nightmare with vegetable crops I don't want to think of what they will do to dope flowers. The best was bay windows at the top of each end that could be manually opened each morning and closed each evening to keep the warm air inside. Big multi spans were best but there was a cost difference of 400% between different greenhouses we had built of the same 40x40m size and the cheapest one worked the best in the end! The fancy one with all its climate control and automation was a nightmare and we ripped all that out in the end and converted it to open and shut top hoops manual and took the insect curtains out that stop airflow.



We were running big 40x40m multispans drip DTW, 6 of them all run by one garden irrigation controller and multiple 15000l rez's made of plastic swimming pools under shade cloth, after the fancy systems failed us and we ripped them out and the guys building the cheaper greenhouses put in that commercial DIY system that worked and was bulletproof..KISS and don't go expensive if one does not gain is what we learned. Even if power was out for a week we could gravity feed and had enough water and nutes for that time. The profits in vegetables are much tighter than in dope so we would have not made a year in business if we went with the slick salesman. The DIY farmer/builder saved us in the end.



Do not skimp on plastic nor anchoring your greenhouse, the simplest netafim or equivalent high quality film is fine, you DO NOT want UV blocking film but do want UV stabilized diffused film, 4 layer normally is fine. The way the guys do them here is frame anchored in ground and along each side the plastic is trenched and buried. We are a very windy country and that seems to work, I've seen a few DIY or import and non anchored greenhouses go flying onto neighbors properties in a good blow so make it secure. Mine homebuilt PVC pipe greenhouses have survived storms with 160km winds that folded 1m wide trees like toothpicks. If you design it right and trench it in it is not going anywhere.

Another thing with dope in a greenhouse, it can take stupidly high temperatures with no ill effect. Far higher than we can for the same reason that we can't take those temps. The humidity, which is your greatest foe. As i understand it the wrong VPD is the culprit, not high temps per se, and in a greenhouse as the temps go up so the humidity rises to match it, if you were moving enough air through that the humidity was no concern then the temperature would also be no concern as the air has no time to heat up, if you were not, the humidity would rise to match the temps and keep humidity > 80% and in happy VPD range and because of this even though temps might be 40 degrees celcius and well above that at midday (I've maxed out my thermometers at 60 degrees celcius plus and plants were fine) and your sweat does not cool you and it is life threatening to work in this heat AND humidity, the plants in my first hand experience in a hot country, seem to love it! And this goes for all genetics I have grown in greenhouses which is lots. In fact the plants thrive in the environment in veg and just make humongous fan leaves and grow at a stupidly rapid pace if you water and feed them enough which is key. When flowering time comes and temperatures drop, low temps at night become an issue as humidity is a struggle to keep under 80% in the day and as the sun sets it and temperature falls humidity goes over 100% in minutes, in fact a fog forms inside which only lifts with the sunrise which is a trip to watch as the mist moves from one side to the other and flows out as the sun hits the one side of the plastic, but airflow or night heating and get around that, but heating air is expensive.

Smith111 said:

Why do people like you exist? Go away. I don't have time for the haters. I literally lift my head off my pillow, go to work, and put my head back on my pillow. My free time consists of taking a shower. I have spent more time responding to your dumb ass comment than hanging out with my kids this week. Go away.

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Smith, I'm gonna level with you. I didn't figure you showered.

And you can go shit in your hat if you want to get sassy with me Elon Mustard. You're the one that asked for farming and business advice then gets all angryface because you feel slighted when I tell you that it's more than making a really long shopping list.

jidoka said:

It depends on sup lighting. In Co mo sunlight means more energy to the plant but produces heat. Nothing beats a 100 degree gh with 80% humidity...sucks to work in but holy shit

When it gets colder yield drops like a rock without sup lights

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I’m glad you figured out GH & humidity 80%, when I first was sharing that 2-3 years ago you weren’t a fan; and now you and hazy are boys, Slo too - is the world coming to an end; never thought I’d see the day, haha !

Best of luck to all you guys, lots of knowledge you’ll got, just keep them heads on straight..

Peace

Out of curiosity. What is the plan for removing any pests or pathogens? I have always wondered how a giant contained grow with plants of several ages goes about eliminating a problem.

Obviously cleanliness is key and there are tons of preventive measures. But what is backup plan?

My small grow the plan has always been to clean up everything. Do my battle on young vegetive plants and completely start flowering room over with clean planta and room.

Here is what people don’t think about. For the sake of argument let’s say an acre will do 140 lbs a week. X 20 is 2800 lbs a week.

Ideally you would want to break that down to 400 lbs a day. So harvest 400 lbs a day, plant that back the next day, trim and pack400 a day...dry over a week or 2 but finish drying 400 a day

Getting the timing right for that is what drives labor hrs down

That is far from how the industry has worked but will. Takt Time and not exactly one piece flow...but daily batch flow at least

Los Sueños Farms in Colorado is 36 acres outdoor("worlds largest") and they harvest once per year ~40,000lbs. Seems like an insane approach (eggs in one basket) but startup cost is probably small in comparison to build out and labor to operate perpetual/light dep.

They are looking at about 1100 lbs/acre/yr vs like 7200 with well run greenhouses. That pays for some labor and capital. That old Cali model ain’t gonna work today...but many of them have figured it out already

It's like up to 1600lb every 3 months per acre of flowering canopy... But in reality it's not that much. Different times of year with likes Sun and warmth are less. Walkways eat into flower space.
Doing separate greenhouses, you need like 10ft between greenhouses for proper ventilation.

GatorGumbo said:

Smith, I'm gonna level with you. I didn't figure you showered.

And you can go shit in your hat if you want to get sassy with me Elon Mustard. You're the one that asked for farming and business advice then gets all angryface because you feel slighted when I tell you that it's more than making a really long shopping list.

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YOu are the reason this site now sucks balls. People like you, with zero insight and only hate. Enjoy your misery. Fuckwad.

Thanks to those who answered my questions. I have moved to the next phase in this project. Make it a great day everybody!

Anybody who is serious about cannabis as a profession, I found an amazing forum for pros. MSG me if interested.

Not saying people should ditch ICmag, just saying I found a forum that discusses things like commercial yields, professional greenhouses, ext ext.