Broad mites: ID and Organic Antidotes that work!

The Admiral · Oct 20, 2015

Thanks for the read and info RG.

I have been harsh to the garden lately. I'm going to give the plants a lil bit to recover and hope I got them with my assault of pesticides.

Should I notice any more symptoms, I will heat the room. Thanks again.

Terpz · Oct 21, 2015

RetroGrow said:
The other thing I've learned, is to use aspirin, which mitigates the effects of the toxins that these mites inject into the plants. One regular, 325 Mg. tablet of aspirin per gallon of water,added to their feed, will make a big difference. Aspirin boosts the plants immune response, as well as being a growth hormone:
" Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure.[which?] SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens. It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins. It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid
I use aspirin throughout the grow at all times now.

Great info, RG! Sounds like you are using the aspirin mixed with your nutrient feed/ as a root drench... am I understanding you correct? I'm not a huge fan of foliar spraying often and would much rather root drench whenever possible. Essentially, could we purchase straight Salicylic Acid and bypass the fillers in aspirin?

milkyjoe · Oct 21, 2015

Bullshit...too many people know better.

RetroGrow · Oct 21, 2015

milkyjoe said:
Bullshit...too many people know better.

Unfortunately, you're not one of them.
Yes. Root drench for the aspirin. Foliar also works, but I prefer root drench. Definitely works. I have harvested plants that had BMs and were treated only with aspirin. Came out fine. Have had seedlings that were succumbing to BMs. One application of aspirin and they perked right up within a couple of hours. Aspirin stops the damage from the toxins, which have never been identified. If you read up on BMs, you will always read about the toxins, but what exactly they are is never mentioned. Anyone who says it doesn't work is a fool who hasn't tried it. Works 1000%. MANY people have done this successfully. Chemicals not needed.

50YardLine · Oct 21, 2015

mtntrogger said:
Great info /help 50 ! again very appreciated. So you think its safe to dunk/drench my fans (circulation and exhaust) as well as my hps and t5 lights (bulbs,fixture,ballast) ?? what about the charcoal filter ? I removed and tossed the prefilter on the outside. Since the grow is in a extra room I never turn the heat on in there, I try to use the heat from the grow to help heat the rest of the apartment. Also here in colorado it is drier that a dead hookers cooter, humidity here is close to zero most of the time. would you suggest turning the heater on just a bit to warm the room enough for them to hatch ? It will be at least a week or two before I can restart from seed, as I want to rip out the carpet and go to hardwood.
Best vibes to you all

No No!!! Don't dunk your electronics. That is too much water, and will rust your circuit boards. I was saying it's safe to spray a mist on electronics, and leave them off till they dry.

If you drench your carbon filter, it may not work until it dries out completely. However it shouldn't damage it, again, just spray it, don't dunk it.

Yes, I would also turn up the heat. Turn up the heat, and spray with hot water. The temps will become unbearable for them.

I would also consider pulling the carpet first thing. No reason you should treat everything, then pull the carpet exposing a new area where the mites could be living. Clean everything 100%, then start with the treatments.

Consider a bug bomb or two. No pest strips work really well in an enclosed area also.

If you don't have plants for the next couple weeks then here is what I would do.

#1 Clean and remove any items from grow room. Carpet.

#2 Turn the heat up, and spray with a hot water rinse

#3 Spray and wipe down everything with a bleach solution, or that other mix you were just mentioning in this thread. Bleach solution wont hurt your paint, unless you really scrub, I think. I always use on white walls, and I never see damage.

#4 Take a no pest test trip or two, and leave in room closed up for the remaining time. I might even leave it in the room for a couple weeks while your seeds get going. These are not really "safe" for everyday use for humans. Read the label, if I remember correctly, they say not for use in areas where humans inhabit for more than 4 hours a day. It will also hurt your plants if you don't have ventilation, however with ventilation, it wont hurt the plants.

#5 Then start with a preventive IPM program. Start with neem, azamax, Og bio war, JMS stylet oil, or other organic measures. Keep up the spraying once a week, or every three days when an outbreak is noticed.

Hope all this helps, maybe somebody could add some info I missed.

stasis · Oct 21, 2015

The plague has thinned out the herd of growers around here. I told several people about BM"s when I was running a hydro shop. 99% ignored my info, and took it personally. They are now not thriving.

mtntrogger · Oct 21, 2015

you mention you don't believe the mites will only survive for a short period of time once the food supply is gone.....Well, lets think about this...... You think these are freaks of nature? They don't need food or water to survive? Of coarse they do. Now, how long do you think they can survive without food or water? Not long right?

The problem here is the eggs can go dormant, and then hatch once the weather is right again. This is where temps come into play. If your room is normal temps, with normal light cycles, then the mite will have no reason to winter their eggs. They will hatch, in 2-3 days, and die with no food.

Not sure if it makes a difference but I do share this extra room with my ladies jewlery studio, which has all kinds of bench equipment, power grinders, files, wax molds..etc

Again I have NO plants now. So if I have the bedroom at a "normal" temp, say 60 f , will they all hatch, then die within a few days due to no food source ? Should I turn a light on or open curtains to let light in ? Would I still need to treat the room with the peroxide/vinegar solution that you recommended I spray and wipe on everything ?

mtntrogger · Oct 21, 2015

50YardLine said:
No No!!! Don't dunk your electronics. That is too much water, and will rust your circuit boards. I was saying it's safe to spray a mist on electronics, and leave them off till they dry.

If you drench your carbon filter, it may not work until it dries out completely. However it shouldn't damage it, again, just spray it, don't dunk it.

Yes, I would also turn up the heat. Turn up the heat, and spray with hot water. The temps will become unbearable for them.

I would also consider pulling the carpet first thing. No reason you should treat everything, then pull the carpet exposing a new area where the mites could be living. Clean everything 100%, then start with the treatments.

Consider a bug bomb or two. No pest strips work really well in an enclosed area also.

If you don't have plants for the next couple weeks then here is what I would do.

#1 Clean and remove any items from grow room. Carpet.

#2 Turn the heat up, and spray with a hot water rinse

#3 Spray and wipe down everything with a bleach solution, or that other mix you were just mentioning in this thread. Bleach solution wont hurt your paint, unless you really scrub, I think. I always use on white walls, and I never see damage.

#4 Take a no pest test trip or two, and leave in room closed up for the remaining time. I might even leave it in the room for a couple weeks while your seeds get going. These are not really "safe" for everyday use for humans. Read the label, if I remember correctly, they say not for use in areas where humans inhabit for more than 4 hours a day. It will also hurt your plants if you don't have ventilation, however with ventilation, it wont hurt the plants.

#5 Then start with a preventive IPM program. Start with neem, azamax, Og bio war, JMS stylet oil, or other organic measures. Keep up the spraying once a week, or every three days when an outbreak is noticed.

Hope all this helps, maybe somebody could add some info I missed.

What would make you think they could live below the carpet , especially with no food source wouldnt they just die off ?

On the no pest strip.. I actually put 2 of them in there for the last couple of weeks of treatments before I lost the plants, 1 in each 2x2 veg cab (which are all in the same tiny bedroom as the tent), then shut the bedroom door so it would also (hopefully) work on the rest of the room after being exhausted from the small cabs.

I was planning on being ready with a IPM plan, however was not planning on using ANY sprays or drenches or other items on my plants (which will be from seed) until a problem is noticed. I DO plan on scoping EVERY day. With all new cabs and tent and the cleanliness and preventative measures I have always took (like frequent cleaning, always fresh or no clothes , wash hands and arms before and after gardening , swab every garden tool, sprayer, and watercans daily with 91 iso) along with not having any plants in the room for a month, I wouldnt think I should need to hit em with sprays right out the gate. I am also planning on scoping each seed before germinating and sterilizing if questionable.
Thanks again

RetroGrow · Oct 22, 2015

mtntrogger said:
you mention you don't believe the mites will only survive for a short period of time once the food supply is gone.....Well, lets think about this...... You think these are freaks of nature? They don't need food or water to survive? Of coarse they do. Now, how long do you think they can survive without food or water? Not long right?

At least 6 months...as I have completely cleaned a room, let it sit empty for 6 months, cleaned it again...started new seedlings...they got hit in a few days with BMs. Everything had been scrubbed down with physan...once those fuckers get in your house, they can get anywhere, and they can also get resistant to the chems, which is already happening. Heat will wipe them out completely. They can't get resistant to it.

panick503 · Oct 22, 2015

Oh good, this thread is headed the way of every other broad mite thread in this website...

Intimea · Oct 22, 2015

RetroGrow said:
O.K. I've been following this thread, and reading about some of the newer miticides. Since I completely defeated broad/cyclamen mites years ago, permanently, it's appropriate to post how to completely get rid of them using no pesticides, if you are indoors:
Heat treatment of the plants/room will eradicate them 100%. Plants will not be damaged. Lots of bad information has been posted, so here is how you do it properly:
Room must be heated to 120 F. Not 140, which will damage plants, but 120, which will kill not only the mites and eggs on the plants, but also in the room, which is critical, or they will come back. All fans MUST be turned off, or the plants will be scorched. With A/C and fans off, use extra lights or space heaters to heat the room up to 120F for one hour. It takes some trial and error to get the temps correct, but once dialed in, the procedure can be easily repeated, which should be done every 3 days or so, to kill mites that are newly hatched. I did it 3 times, and all mites in the room were killed. After the heat treatment, plants perked right up. I was at my wits end when I first tried this with all the spraying, which only kills mites on the plant that are exposed to the chems, not the mites which are all over the place in the room/ducting. Heat treatment kills them all. Note that many newer space heaters have a thermistor, which limits the temperature the heater will go to. This can be disabled by opening up the unit. Older space heaters will not have this. I have also used extra lights to get the temps to where they are needed. They don't have to be hung, but can just sit on the floor. If done properly, and repeated a few times every three days,all mites/eggs will be killed. This has been confirmed not only by me, but by many others. No harm will come to the plants if all fans are off. No need to throw tents away or attempt to sterilize equipment. The heat takes care of that. The other thing I've learned, is to use aspirin, which mitigates the effects of the toxins that these mites inject into the plants. One regular, 325 Mg. tablet of aspirin per gallon of water,added to their feed, will make a big difference. Aspirin boosts the plants immune response, as well as being a growth hormone:
" Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure.[which?] SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens. It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins. It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid
I use aspirin throughout the grow at all times now.
If you follow this protocol, you will eradicate broad/cyclamen mites. No chemicals necessary. This should be repeated several times to kill any late arrivals/stragglers. Having tried every method to deal with these, this is by far the easiest and most effective.

I totally agree!

50YardLine · Oct 22, 2015

RetroGrow said:
At least 6 months...as I have completely cleaned a room, let it sit empty for 6 months, cleaned it again...started new seedlings...they got hit in a few days with BMs. Everything had been scrubbed down with physan...once those fuckers get in your house, they can get anywhere, and they can also get resistant to the chems, which is already happening. Heat will wipe them out completely. They can't get resistant to it.

I just don't believe this works....... What medium are you using?

When I heated up my greenhouse, I heated it to 145F, and the bottom of the leaf surface never went above 105. (lazer temp gun) The soil temp never went above 100. How do you combat the micro climates that don't reach the higher temps? When you brought your room up to 120, what was the temps on the leaf surfaces?

Why would leaving the fans on burn the leaves? My guess, is the wind brings the temps on the surface of the leafs up. However, what temp do they burn at, and what temp did they reach?

You say you left your room for 6 months, how did you reintroduce plants? Where these plants where the re infestation came from?

mtntrogger · Oct 22, 2015

50YardLine said:
I just don't believe this works....... What medium are you using?

When I heated up my greenhouse, I heated it to 145F, and the bottom of the leaf surface never went above 105. (lazer temp gun) The soil temp never went above 100. How do you combat the micro climates that don't reach the higher temps? When you brought your room up to 120, what was the temps on the leaf surfaces?

Why would leaving the fans on burn the leaves? My guess, is the wind brings the temps on the surface of the leafs up. However, what temp do they burn at, and what temp did they reach?

You say you left your room for 6 months, how did you reintroduce plants? Where these plants where the re infestation came from?

6 months and they came right back immediately !! F ! REALLY not sure what to do now, Retro says heat will work , 50 says did not work for him. I have heard both of these results from others also. I need a solid plan. I might try both methods. Spray disinfect a couple of times Heat treat a few times , maybe also bomb a time or two ? still not sure which is the bomb of choice ? need something heavy ...help help help ! :comfort:

bilbobonger · Oct 22, 2015

Anyone know if this is broadmites? Been looking at 'em w/a a loupe, haven't been able to id anything though. Can make out some small white bits, but can't tell if they're eggs or not.

blueberrydrumz · Oct 22, 2015

mtn,
you are beating yourself up of these fuckers, relax.. smoke one and make a game plan..
if you are so worried it wont help much..
your room is in your house yeah? so you will most likely not get rid of them easy..
teardown first.. clean the place with bleach,
then bomb, if you can bomb the whole house..
then get strong double sided carpet tape and make a perimeter on door and windows so nothing that crawls will get in..
then heat treat your room, with your equipment inside after you have cleaned it ofcourse..
do that 3-4 times
Then start from seed and slowly build up a colony of predetor mites etc...
you should be good.. also i believe retro grow.. known him for a while...
he knows his stuff...
use asprin or willow water, aloe vera... what i use and plants pick up... you see a positive effect the next day with any troubles they have!
good luck

mtntrogger · Oct 22, 2015

blueberrydrumz said:
mtn,
you are beating yourself up of these fuckers, relax.. smoke one and make a game plan..
if you are so worried it wont help much..
your room is in your house yeah? so you will most likely not get rid of them easy..
teardown first.. clean the place with bleach,
then bomb, if you can bomb the whole house..
then get strong double sided carpet tape and make a perimeter on door and windows so nothing that crawls will get in..
then heat treat your room, with your equipment inside after you have cleaned it ofcourse..
do that 3-4 times
Then start from seed and slowly build up a colony of predetor mites etc...
you should be good.. also i believe retro grow.. known him for a while...
he knows his stuff...
use asprin or willow water, aloe vera... what i use and plants pick up... you see a positive effect the next day with any troubles they have!
good luck

For sure ! Thanks Blue. the last few days Ive not done shit ! sat on the couch pouring over everything I can find on the web that might help. SUUUUper depressed. Having to shut down is bad enough. First time in over 5 yrs. Then my lady mixed up my seed crop. I cracked ! Drank a grip . Felt sick the last few days... Need to get back up and back to business. Really hoping this shutdown was not for nothing. Never started from scratch. I DO believe these things are no fucking joke, as I has started fresh seedlings the first week of august , and treated them their entire life... by the end of September they were all dead, even with no pest strips , and daily treatments .

mtntrogger · Oct 22, 2015

Still looking for some recommendations on bombs that I can use in the house. Can easily leave for a day or 2 if needed. Dont have any pets, just a few houseplants. Avi said big time was pretty decent . A guy on another site said he used attain and pylon bombs in his house, however the mnfctr doesnt recommend it. thanks yall

mtntrogger · Oct 23, 2015

BTW I did use asprin as a foliar and in the nute mix, did seem to help plants quite a bit , when I still had plants. now I am more looking to exterminate the rest that are lurking on the gear and everywhere else. Tricky to formulate an effective plan when so many methods dont get em all. I do expect to see them again at some point. Regardless of how many precautions are taken, they are in the area. EVEN if i can get rid of them in the crib they can find their way in from the outside. I will have a IPM program in place for this. But am REALLY really hoping it takes a heck of alot longer than 2 weeks like with retrogrow. Battling these fuckers is tiresome. Was spending over 4 hours a day, everyday, just applying sprays and cleaning. And I have a tiny grow. 1 4x4 tent and a couple of foot and a half square homemade cabs.

blueberrydrumz · Oct 23, 2015

just reading through your post.. "home made cabs" are they made out of wood?!
i bet theres all sorts of pests in the wood
thing is i bet you, as its normal you used the same equipment for all plants.. so in the end if one plant had something.. would just be a matter of time the next one gets it..
i truly think if you get your room into the 140F zone for 2-3 hrs or even half a day if you can you will get 99% dead.. with the heat also comes the dryness... they dont like really dry.. 20% RH and 140F will make them run.. once you have killed most or all in the house ye, the hard thing will be to keep em out.
near to impossible i would think, so you gotta keep your gard up with IPM sure.. predetors and PFR should take care of this...
also im with 50 on this that hat water will kill them too.. i would use that to wipe everything down once the other steps have been carefully completed..
yeah use asprin from day one... or willow water for the roots and added beefit SA and weekly asprin dosages..
keep your head up man, take your time and get set up again properly..
you will have a nice harvest in no time

RetroGrow · Oct 23, 2015

mtntrogger said:
BTW I did use asprin as a foliar and in the nute mix, did seem to help plants quite a bit , when I still had plants. now I am more looking to exterminate the rest that are lurking on the gear and everywhere else. Tricky to formulate an effective plan when so many methods dont get em all. I do expect to see them again at some point. Regardless of how many precautions are taken, they are in the area. EVEN if i can get rid of them in the crib they can find their way in from the outside. I will have a IPM program in place for this. But am REALLY really hoping it takes a heck of alot longer than 2 weeks like with retrogrow. Battling these fuckers is tiresome. Was spending over 4 hours a day, everyday, just applying sprays and cleaning. And I have a tiny grow. 1 4x4 tent and a couple of foot and a half square homemade cabs.

Bro, you're going about this the wrong way. The solution has been spelled out for you. Heat treatment is simple and foolproof. Once you get the temps dialed in after a bit of trial and error, you are set. You can have a heat treatment at any time. Can be repeated to deal with new arrivals that come in from your yard or house. You have been getting some bad advice. 120 degrees F is all you need to know, for one hour. Once you have tried it, you will never be buying chems again. Broad/cyclamen mites are really small. Their bodies cannot dissipate heat. Once the temp gets up to the 115 area, they are toast. Their bodies swell and they explode. They are dead. On the plants and in the room, and on any equipment in the room. I have done this successfully many times, and so have others. I was plagued by these fuckers for 3 years, before even knowing what was happening. I went through all the chem applications, bug bombs, "no pest strips", miticides...you name it. When I tried the heat treatment the first time, all mites vanished...permanently. I had tried hot water dips first, and it fucked up the plants, so don't waste your time on that. Hot air does the trick. Once you try it, problem solved. Just do not have fans blowing hot air on the plants. That will do leaf damage. You can repeat treatment at any time, and no wasting money on miticides.
Also, pictures earlier of undersides of leaves are showing trichomes, NOT eggs. If you have BMs, you will have eggs on the undersides of leaves. Eggs can't hide. Mites can/do hide, and are often impossible to see, until they are dead. If you are not seeing eggs, you do not have BMs. Note that BMs aren't the only things that can mess up plants in that manner. RAs can do major damage, so make sure you are not dealing with root aphids.
If I ever get BMs again, I know how to deal with them. Read any paper on broad mites and you will see references to heat treatments. In commercial greenhouses, where they grow peppers and other fruits, they use heat treatments to control broad/cyclamen mites. They use hot water dips, which, as explained, does not work on Cannabis. But, hot air does. They absolutely cannot survive it. 120 F will NOT hurt plants. They love it!

Broad mites: ID and Organic Antidotes that work!

New member

Member

Senior Member

Active member

Member

Registered Non-Conformist

Member

Member

Active member

Member

Active member

Member

Member

Member

Attachments

Active member

Member

Member

Member

Active member

Active member