Need DWC advice and tips

bionicchronic · Jan 31, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
The higher the temp, the faster the pH drop from root rot. Your pH is still climbing, yes?

its starting to stabalize or atleast slow down. also ppm is going up, but i think my ph meter is busted cause it keeos shutting off. temp was 58

Ogtg2213 · Feb 7, 2017

Any updates on your roots?

Bobby Boucher · Feb 13, 2017

Surprised to see no mention of EWC or DMZone.

I like to keep everything sterile with dmzone all the way through veg, until the plant has developed enough to fight off disease on its own. I really could not be any happier with this product. Buckets, stones, and even airlines feel brand new to the touch after a 2 month no-dump veg. I've struggled to no end for almost 2 years with disease and DMZone was what solved it for me.

In flower, I'll mix a pinch of subcultures-a&b, great white, ancient forest, and blackstrap molasses into a cup of RO and aerate for a day or two to use as an inoculant. IF everything looks good, and your plant is super healthy and robust, I'd also recommend separately using hygrozyme late in flower. I'll probably catch some flak for that suggestion, but in my experience, hydro that has been fed its own dissolved roots has much more full and organic flavors and aromas.

ALSO. Anyone knocking dwc doesn't really know wtf they are talking about. I've been in the pot trade since I was fresh off the teet and the best shit I've ever seen and will probably ever see comes out of dwc buckets. Puts 9/10 organic grows to shame.

My 2 cents.

Easy7 · Feb 13, 2017

When i ran shallow water culture, never had ph or ppm fluctuate at all. Always topped up the res 2x a day and add exact %'s of nutrients. Ph also adjusted with the nutrient top off with the water top off. I have no idea why people have ppm and ph fluctuations. Simply ph'd due to adding nutrients with water top off. Never cooled the res and never had anything but a dank musky smell from the res.

Bobby Boucher · Feb 13, 2017

Easy7 said:
I have no idea why people have ppm and ph fluctuations.

Water source. We all use different water. If you are using good tap water, it isn't a surprise you've never encountered any problems. RO isn't necessarily free of pathogens unless it has been UV treated. Even then.. without a base, it has a tendency to assume the properties of whatever you add to it, and very quickly. The RO has no buffer and will get all f*cked up throughout if it comes into contact with anything even remotely nasty. I'm pretty sure that you could spoil 0ppm water just by looking at it the wrong way. If I don't mix my RO 4:1 with tap water, I've noticed my ph will exhibit those telltale rapid drops until it settles around 5, while the same mix at a 4:1 RO:tap ratio will settle around 6.

This is just how I've observed that MY water behaves over the years.

Loc Dog · Feb 13, 2017

Bobby Boucher said:
Water source. We all use different water. If you are using good tap water, it isn't a surprise you've never encountered any problems. RO isn't necessarily free of pathogens unless it has been UV treated. Even then.. without a base, it has a tendency to assume the properties of whatever you add to it, and very quickly. The RO has no buffer and will get all f*cked up throughout if it comes into contact with anything even remotely nasty. I'm pretty sure that you could spoil 0ppm water just by looking at it the wrong way. If I don't mix my RO 4:1 with tap water, I've noticed my ph will exhibit those telltale rapid drops until it settles around 5, while the same mix at a 4:1 RO:tap ratio will settle around 6.

This is just how I've observed that MY water behaves over the years.

I have been told well water was death in RDWC. Would love to use some, so I do not feel like the waterboy, waiting for RO tank to refill, and stockpile.

I have 2 flowering tents. Might try it in one. Currently with keeping temps below 70F, Aquashield (well past use by date) and SM90, PH is rock steady. Had a little root discolorization and smell, weeks ago, added bleach, then went to those products.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 13, 2017

Bobby Boucher said:
Surprised to see no mention of EWC or DMZone.

I don't believe in running a sterile res and I'm not a fan of spore producing biologicals in my flowering room.

15 years running DWC and nearly zero issues. Nothing but smashing success, once I learned to keep the environment properly in check.

Easy7 said:
When i ran shallow water culture, never had ph or ppm fluctuate at all.

In my experience, having a pH fluctuation from 5.4 up to 5.8, adjusted back to 5.4 using nutes, grows higher quality cannabis (with fewer issues) than a steady pH and ppm. The swing needs to happen within 7-10 days though, this is controlled by the size of your res.

Bobby Boucher · Feb 13, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
I don't believe in running a sterile res and I'm not a fan of spore producing biologicals in my flowering room..

Whatcha usin' to keep your res alive?

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 13, 2017

Bobby Boucher said:
Whatcha usin' to keep your res alive?

Nothing.

I use r/o water and GH Flora. You don't need to add anything for DWC to run perfectly well without issues. I keep the environmental variables within the proper ranges and the grows turn out beautiful, with a clean res at the end.

Bobby Boucher · Feb 13, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
Nothing.

I use r/o water and GH Flora. You don't need to add anything for DWC to run perfectly well without issues. I keep the environmental variables within the proper ranges and the grows turn out beautiful, with a clean res at the end.

The best stuff I've seen was grown using the same methodology, however, I feel that is a bit of an over-simplification considering that not all RO water is created equally. I've gone that route in rdwc with consistent failure. Do you live in a smoke-free, pet-free, well insulated home? I don't.. So.. I don't know. Maybe that explains something.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 13, 2017

Bobby Boucher said:
The best stuff I've seen was grown using the same methodology, however, I feel that is a bit of an over-simplification considering that not all RO water is created equally. I've gone that route in rdwc with consistent failure. Do you live in a smoke-free, pet-free, well insulated home? I don't.. So.. I don't know. Maybe that explains something.

Your issue is rdwc, not dwc. Completely different beast with significantly more areas to grow biologicals in. R/O has been close enough in output in all areas I've lived in. The difference doesn't make a difference, it's that small.

I use a res with a cover and the plants are in netpots, directly in the cover. No nooks, crannies, pipes or anything to cause issues with. I've always been against rdwc from the very beginning, as a waste of resources and as a biological growth farm. I also don't believe in maintaining a steady pH ppm, which is what I've seen preached for rdwc.

YMMV

Bobby Boucher · Feb 13, 2017

We're on the same page with ph/ppm fluctuations along with avoiding rdwc at all costs, but as previously stated, my 3 part flora (2.5,5,7.5) will stabilize just above 5 in my RO, plant or no. If I give it to my plants that sour, they'll take up more water than anything else, sending my ph even lower. I know you are on top of your shit, but my water just won't act like your water in my single-cell units.

High ambient co2, expired nutes, residual bacteria from the plethora of animals that have lived in my house, contaminated RO filters, cigarette/tobacco related viruses, garden viruses, all just guesses. All I know is that cutting my RO with a little tap fixes the acid water right up, and the zone keeps my roots looking picture perfect. I rely heavily on my harvests, and dmzone has been a priceless safeguard in my nasty cat house.

Freet · Feb 14, 2017

Bobby, i think i can help you with your aversion to Rdwc.. come back to the recirculating side.. It's even easier than still dwc...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338042&page=2

Bobby Boucher · Feb 14, 2017

Nah, dude. I do still appreciate how anyone who puts the time and effort into building a recirculating system thinks they have the grow game on lock and wants to let everybody else into the "know". I was one of those people not all that long ago..

FWIW, Growing single cell is superior in nearly every aspect for reasons that should really be all too obvious. Custom tailored feed regimens grow better plants. Individual attention is a good thing. Many say the best plants are hand watered. I've learned to trust the professionals, and they told me to ditch r.ecurculating d.eath w.ithout c.ause straight away. To each their own, but I wouldn't grow rdwc unless maintaining single-cell units or organic soil pots was completely 100% implausible. Not a gambling man. I could spend 12 hours a day maintaining single-cells and have enough chop to retire in a year er two. That's easy enough.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 14, 2017

Freet said:
Bobby, i think i can help you with your aversion to Rdwc.. come back to the recirculating side.. It's even easier than still dwc...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338042&page=2

Higher equipment cost, additional electrical costs, higher probability of equipment failures, higher probability of biological issues when one little thing goes wrong... Nah. Not for me either.

One res per strain and light. Stupid cheap and stupid simple for amazing results. DWC all the way.

The problem is most people learned hydro the wrong way the first time. Prohibition is still very successful in the information department.

bionicchronic · Feb 16, 2017

hey guys glad to see the thread was busy while i was gone. ive been keeping my water temps low and have kept the same nute mix for going on 3 weeks. plants look great up top and down below ive seen substantial root growth. although the most developed plants base roots look like tendrills (no side roots) that go down to about water level and then turn into a rootball. idk i think im gona switch to flood and drain for flower just to be safe. didnt snap any pics of roots but will in a day or two. sorry didnt feel like untying all the lst strings.

Easy7 · Feb 16, 2017

Running recirculating shallow water culture, ph and ppm were always stable and never changed no matter how much of the res went up the roots. Never could figure out why people say plants can eat and not drink or drink and not eat. Mine always took up solution exactly with what was in the res, perfectly.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 16, 2017

Easy7 said:
Running recirculating shallow water culture, ph and ppm were always stable and never changed no matter how much of the res went up the roots. Never could figure out why people say plants can eat and not drink or drink and not eat. Mine always took up solution exactly with what was in the res, perfectly.

Because, you top off your res with nutes twice a day and change out your res every week. Always need to take into consideration the method being used.

Those of us, who do not change reservoirs during flower and top off with plain r/o, are aware of the benefits a pH cycle has for the plants.

Easy7 · Feb 16, 2017

How does a ph swing help a plant? Variables in nutrient absorption?

I'm a bit old school taught. Always 5.8 for hydro and 6.5 for soil.

bionicchronic · Feb 16, 2017

pics of roots coming soon guys

Need DWC advice and tips

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