Everybody a breeder ?

[midwest]

I'm with the people that say it isn't that hard to breed
Infact IME the people with the most book knowledge often produce inferior seeds.

I think the most prominent example is the dutch. They got all of our old school american amateur bred strains and tried to work with them at a more professional level. And every single one of them got worse, not better.
I see people talking about DJ short, and he's a great example. Did his best work as an amateur. Nowadays after he's hooked up with the book smart people like Chimera they have selected a blueberry male that they tout as being super great but I think everyone agrees does not really pass on the blueberry flavor that much and has horrible mutation problems. The males he selected as a rank amateur were better.

IMO we should be thankful that cannabis is one of the few plants that hasn't been worked by the real pros
How many of the special clone only plants were really bred? Not many. Infact most are full on accidents

 

[offthehook]

Now I am wondering in wich catagory a 'survival of the fittest' inbreed 'breeder(?)' belongs?

I mean, the whole of Marocco must be full of them, rite?

 

[Happy 7]

but its not as easy as it sounds.

Well, today, it seems, anything that needs patience and commitment is hard even though the task itself is easy. After all it's growing and selecting cannabis plants ffs.

It's just a bad business plan to work for a decade or more on a variety and then sell it just to have the copy cats and pollen chuckers knock it off and steal your market share.
So, no one is doing any real work and those who do don't sell their pure varieties.

The customer's selection bred the breeders... Bad selection = bad breeders. Easy. In times when the name is the most important trait of a plant, lotsa bad choices are being made.

 

[siftedunity]

i think your statement kinda proves that selecting for parents IS hard....

doesnt matter what you know or what you have to work with or how long a line has been worked...
if you cant select for shit, its all for not.

seems to be that way....

yeah but look at the amount of elites found in bag seed or accidental pollenation.

 

[SooperSmurph]

yeah but look at the amount of elites found in bag seed or accidental pollenation.

Rolling a die and getting the highest result doesn't make you a "master dicest", it's just luck, it doesn't mean you're something different now, it just means something good or outstanding happened to you.

Good genetics tend to create good offspring, so bagseeds from good pot have a higher chance of resulting in something good, it's that simple, i've never heard anyone talk about the amazing keeper they pulled out of a mexibrick.

Being a "breeder" is about taking luck out of the equation and conducting real study, not about anomalous finds and shady backstory, that stuff is mostly marketing.

 

[Infinitesimal]

yeah but look at the amount of elites found in bag seed or accidental pollenation.

Rolling a die and getting the highest result doesn't make you a "master dicest", it's just luck, it doesn't mean you're something different now, it just means something good or outstanding happened to you.

Good genetics tend to create good offspring, so bagseeds from good pot have a higher chance of resulting in something good, it's that simple, i've never heard anyone talk about the amazing keeper they pulled out of a mexibrick.

Being a "breeder" is about taking luck out of the equation and conducting real study, not about anomalous finds and shady backstory, that stuff is mostly marketing.

... well said mon frère

no one is selfing some bammer plants and creating the latest and greatest clone only plants... they all come from high quality strains to begin with... so of course if we have a room full of Chem D, some trainwreck and some Thai haze... all of which can pop nanners, then sure if someone grows out a couple dozen seeds found in some bud they very well may find a new "elite" but that is because they started with something that was already worthy...and STILL just ended up getting lucky

 

[lost in a sea]

i have noticed alot of new members with something "seeds" as their nic and i just think yeah you will struggle to breed in a closet..

at some point i think alot of people after growing for a couple years thinks shit i could make a seed "company"..

"breeders" are pretty special people in their field or species they have a special eye honed with experience of the various gene pools and with the knowledge of how to achieve healthy vigour but also the expression of the genes they want which often takes years and years and costs more money to do in the end than you can make off the seeds, especially with all these seed producers around..

the standard for the breeding of most other plants is higher.. no offence to anyone here but stoners usually light up and go sit down on the sofa, whereas most plants get really obsessive sober people to look after them.. and most importantly that can do it legally.. if cannabis was removed from the law all together then people could breed it properly out in the light and proud with no paranoia.. off topic but alot of other plants cant be sold already like 99% of veg cultivars in the eu, and the codex alimentarius is growing.. the very worst crime on this earth is making plants illegal..

it's ganja's own fault, she is her own worst enemy by seducing her lovers so well.. she's a renegade but with the noblest cause, still too untamed for some,, the greenman alive and well..

the variety of genotypes within gene pools of ganja is mind blowing, most plant breeders of other species literally have a few colours and height/structure to select genes for,, cannabis has a million tastes, a million smells and a million highs as well as colours and structure,, it is unreal..

 

[lee van keef]

It sure helps, but no you don't.
Wolves have been bred into dogs, grass into wheat and hemp into the finest drug cultivars by people who didn't even know the word 'genetics'.
All you need to do is to keep track of what you're doing, observe, conclude and make proper selections towards your goal, but even that is too much for most.

Btw, the wizards will always try to convince you that they're the only ones who can do magic...

Point taken.

I guess it comes down to semantics.
You could say that the people you speak of who are ignorant of genetics that still produce results are just really successful pollen chuckers/dog fuckers.

 

[PWF]

there is no true landrace either. there is always diversity in a good farmers field crops. the word genetics is very new but folks have been "breeding" for centuries. even human breeding projects took place before the word germ was created after microscopes were created lol. breeding is a subject, genetics is actually a facet of breeding but not exactly breeding. genetics actually proves exceptions via mapping and is studied because of the exceptions or "sport" phenotypes. knowledge of genetics is not necessary for breeding but breeding is not complete without our newer knowledge of genetics.
breeding will always have an element of chance included. breeding is not really a science because of the randomness of how genes recombine and the unpredictability of it. it is closer to statistics if anything and statistics is not a true science either.
seedmaking may not be "accepted" by folks as breeding but it is absurd to say it is not breeding.
breeding is reproduction, fucking.
genetics is the study of how genes combine.
breeders can use genetics knowledge to aid their breeding.
seems like alot of reading when more could be learned by doing, observing and documenting then study what you did.
peace,
pwf

 

[there goes edro]

Hell yeah, everyone's a "breeder" these days! There Goes Edro Seeds coming next week!!!!
LOL!!!!!!!

 

[dung beetle]

its true everybody is a breeder!lol i think the probem is like has been said before ;you look at certain "breeders" and their latest fire/dank/insert superlatives etc with his untested knock offs and think;i can do tht,easy ..but being stoners 99 percent of us get stoned and sit back on the sofa!! lol

 

[VerdantGreen]

Its all very subjective, At the end of the day, everyone has a choice how they spend their $.

Ive been making and selling some seeds recently. To some peeps i'm probably a chancer who's knocking out S1s of an elite cut to cash in on it's reputation, and in the process confusing the issue by creating another wave of cuts that might be labeled as the original.

to others i might be providing a valuable service, giving those who don't have access to elites a chance to buy a true breeding clone in seed form that is as close to the original as possible (and all at a fair price )

Looking at some of the 'breeders' that have come and gone over the last few years, i was constantly surprised at how many people were prepared to pay immoral prices for seeds and at the same time hang off the balls of the guy producing them, but thats not really unusual is it.

look at most industries and its the same. eg Hilfiger - he doesnt produce any of his own clothes - he just buys them in cheep, puts his label on them and sells them on for a huge profit.. and has plenty of takers.

really if there was no one prepared to to buy the seeds/products at a certain price then no-one would be trying to sell them.. or not for long anyway.

VG

 

[moses wellfleet]

Its all very subjective, At the end of the day, everyone has a choice how they spend their $.

Ive been making and selling some seeds recently. To some peeps i'm probably a chancer who's knocking out S1s of an elite cut to cash in on it's reputation, and in the process confusing the issue by creating another wave of cuts that might be labeled as the original.

to others i might be providing a valuable service, giving those who don't have access to elites a chance to buy a true breeding clone in seed form that is as close to the original as possible (and all at a fair price )

Looking at some of the 'breeders' that have come and gone over the last few years, i was constantly surprised at how many people were prepared to pay immoral prices for seeds and at the same time hang off the balls of the guy producing them, but thats not really unusual is it.

look at most industries and its the same. eg Hilfiger - he doesnt produce any of his own clothes - he just buys them in cheep, puts his label on them and sells them on for a huge profit.. and has plenty of takers.

really if there was no one prepared to to buy the seeds/products at a certain price then no-one would be trying to sell them.. or not for long anyway.

VG

highly subjective it is, i cant even decide myself?

on one hand the sheer volume of breeders out there should lead to many more desirable phenotypes being revealed.

But a guy like Breeder Steve of Spice of Life fame used massive outdoor grows to select from. closet breeders who are selecting from tiny populations cannot hope to replicate that sort of quality unless by sheer luck.

Are they causing long term harm to the gene pool?

One thing is for sure harm is caused when untested seed and seed that has misleading descriptions is offered to the public!

 

[scai]

I'm getting some decent feedback ..this is what I wanted to see the community's thoughts on the whole idea ..and I respect the manner in which these responses are given also ..I don't want anyone to feel targeted ..just think outside the box with me for a minute

There's some good points made in here I wanted to point out ..but I will do it as one collective post later on hopefully ..

Someone else in this thread said some thing I missed on 2 ..and it's really a big part of this bizz
"Desire ability" -this is VERY important ..this is what makes us buy seeds ..nobody wants to spend big money on a cross of 2 strains in existence ..so having something desirable is key ..people like myself are looking for different / exotic plants ..or anything out of the normal that's intriguing..this is fading ..I don't find strains to stand out like they used to me while shopping ..

I knew you would take it the right way.And it is IMPORTANT to question all things once in a while...keeps you on a right track, so to say.

And you have a point, same as has been said all over the forum many times.
They are not the same, as they used to be.
Those eliteclones, they are not the same anymore, inspite that they go with same name as they used to be...
And many of us smell something ...well, rotten

 

[frankenstein2]

Anyone can be a breeder. Not all of us are capable of going mainstream, remember cannabis is still illegal in alot of places, especially by federal statute in the U.S.A.. So what i can't open a seed company, and i don't have any elite's. That doesn't mean the 1000's of seeds i made are garbage. It means it's gonna take me alot longer to sift thru them, than say a breeder from spain or switzerland, or medville in america. The thing now a days is that people are getting heads to big to fit thru the doorway.Jealousy and greed are what's turning the breeding game into a pissing match. Lies and misinformation fuel the greed machine, and in the process, the closet breeder's get shit on for taking their hobby to the next level by making seeds, and wanting to grow something that we made and can take pride in. Everyone and their brother has the right to open a seed company, doesn't mean they should. Meaning buyer beware- don't buy shit you are unsure of, simple as that:don't like a company, don't buy from them.
I spent over a year looking for a male plant. I didn't have selection for my male, i only had one male out of lot's of regular seeds. So i crossed him with all of my favorite mothers i had and made some beans. It's prolly gonna take me two years to grow the progeny of 4 different crosses i made. During this process i will be starting seeds of all four f1 hybrids. Then i will pick through and keep only the best plants. So if one strain only makes mediocre crosses, i will do away with it, and move on. I will do this in small batches until i find a real winner, and even then i will look for something better.
To me that's what breeding is all about. Not saying my dick is bigger than your's, My elite is more elite than your's, or your not a real breeder cause you don't have a warehouse, or the right strains. I grow for the love of the plant, and i love variety and if i can make my own, then why not? Everbody else is doing it lol!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DryNobBob]

Its like reality has become a person's personal perception, which may or may not be the truth. As someone else stated, nobody does it anymore like Breeder Steve and the old icons, but where are those guys now? Just underground, or completely out of the game? Many wizard wannabees out there these days. Again, nothing against pollen chucking, I love it, especially when you don't have the means to do it numbers style. You use what you got to get by. But don't misrepresent things. Anyone wonder why there are so many name cuts of C99, instead of just one everyone wants? Because except for the old known names, like Ray Davies, Evil Pineapple, etc, they are just cuts from a plant grown by somebody that passed out a decent cut and wanted the notoriety. Or business. Plain and simple. Not out of breeding research, per se. More greedy of a reason. Think bout it. JMHO

It sure helps, but no you don't.
Wolves have been bred into dogs, grass into wheat and hemp into the finest drug cultivars by people who didn't even know the word 'genetics'.
All you need to do is to keep track of what you're doing, observe, conclude and make proper selections towards your goal, but even that is too much for most.

Btw, the wizards will always try to convince you that they're the only ones who can do magic...

 

[strass]

Most of todays breeders are just people who have access to "elite" clones.

 

[siftedunity]

i think it is all subjective. it all depends on your personal definitinion of the name ''breeder'' personally to me its pretty loose.

there are very few who are actually educated within that particular field as a respected genetisist or whatever.

more are just ''experienced'' and have been doing if for years or decades. the rest are pollen chuckers.
i would think most people could apply themselves to it with some reading and research. and more importantly the money, time , space etc to grow out loads of plants.


i understand the crazy this thing atm where theres hundreds of seed companies now. it makes money so thats why. ive got a feeling this will die off as people only use credible ones. ..maybe.

the only advice i will give is dont buy seeds which have never been put out for testing. and dont jump on seeds because they are gsc x whatever or whatever elite x elite because even great parents can produce shitty plants.

 

[MJPassion]

Interesting discussion folks.

i've never heard anyone talk about the amazing keeper they pulled out of a mexibrick.

I'd like to tell you a little bit about mine. I wish I'd known about cloning when I discovered it some years back. She was some of the very best smoke I've had to date, and I've smoked a lot of weed since then... ;D

Consumers must do their due diligence homework previous to ever purchasing seed in the first place. A consumer who doesn't do their research really has no place to complain...

the very worst crime on this earth is making plants illegal..

WURD!!!

...and i don't have any elite's. That doesn't mean the 1000's of seeds i made are garbage. It means it's gonna take me alot longer to sift thru them, than say a breeder from spain or switzerland, or medville in america. The thing now a days is that people are getting heads to big to fit thru the doorway.Jealousy and greed are what's turning the breeding game into a pissing match. Lies and misinformation fuel the greed machine, and in the process, the closet breeder's get shit on for taking their hobby to the next level by making seeds, and wanting to grow something that we made and can take pride in. Everyone and their brother has the right to open a seed company, doesn't mean they should. Meaning buyer beware- don't buy shit you are unsure of, simple as that:don't like a company, don't buy from them.


I grow for the love of the plant, and i love variety and if i can make my own, then why not? Everbody else is doing it lol!!!!!!!!!!!

Well put.


Breed away folks... It's pretty exciting what you can come up with, even if by accident... I've gotten raves about one of my accidents and it's cool to hear that people actually like them... Just don't lie about the genetics when asked and don't try to hype something you've never grown... And most of all, give away what you can't grow if it proves to be a good cross.

As has been mentioned already... A lot of these so called ELIET cuts are from bag seed to begin with...

 

[bad gas]

bad gas seeds, your only approved source of yummybud!