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Has Marijuana really got any better?

G

GoodyTwoShoes

There are so many breeders out there now and so many strains that I can't keep track; but I was thinking today, are these new strains really any different or better than what we were smoking 15 years ago?
I think they are no different than the Skunk, NL, White Widow that I was growing 15 years ago.
Because really, those strains then had THC and CBD and the new strains have THC and CBD, it's just the same thing, nothing new is being created, just the names are changing, just re-inventing the wheel. It's not like some new drug with different chemicals is being created.
People might rave about Chemdogs and such and say it's really strong because it puts you on your ass; but the first grow I did years ago was some bagseed that looked like a wild Afghani, and people were asking me if I had put anything in it, because it really knocked you on your ass.
It's maybe that all the modern breeding is bullshit and hype, just smoke and mirrors, the names and hype change but the product is still basically the same.
Maybe we just need about five strains to choose from; a pure sative and a pure indica and then a few in between; that would cover all bases.
 
B

blue green

I think you are correct-ish.

You could be dramatic and say there is like night and day between today and yesterday, or you could say it's pretty much the same.

Which is a pretty meaningless reply, sorry. :( lol
 
G

GoodyTwoShoes

if you have a seed line were for 10 generations its been selectively bred for a trait then its almost always going to be better than the p1 parents from land race open pollination !
Click to expand...

Well no; because the trait was always there; by generations of selection for that trait you are just increasing the likelihood that it will manifest itself with more frequent regularity in subsequent plants.
You are not increasing the strength of that trait, eg. higher THC percentage, because that trait was already there; how did you think it got there in the first place? Because it was present in the original parents and got passe down.
 
Nunsacred

Nunsacred

Active member
I think it's true that for outdoor growers,
the current stock is no better than the old skunk#1 lines from the 1980s
or many of the lovely mexican lines pre-dating that.

I think it's more about direction than anything else.

Meaning this:
if breeders have the same aim and they stay true to it
instead of getting distracted by surprises and changing their growstyle/traits of selection
if they continue selecting with the same outcome/direction in mind,
then their stock will be 'better', even and especially if
they outcross and make many lines etc to keep the inbreeding depression low.

The vast majority of seeds out there
come from parents selected almost at random because the group is small.
Many lines have no consistent direction in the selection through generations.
Most inbred lines weren't done in parallel and crossed, to ease inbreeding depression.

For me,
the only way to improve on the classic original skunk#1 from the 1980s,
is to do exactly the same strategy for longer or on a bigger scale.

i.e. More growers all focussed on the same goal(s)/traits
meeting annually with the central breeder(s) who compare and share back out the
seed lines chosen with the same trait importance as before.
In other words, we need to co-ordinate our efforts through a central team in order
to reach a common direction.
Perhaps in the past when we were all hunter gatherers learning to farm crops
we had that kind of co-ordination but now I'm afraid we don't all agree about
which traits are most important.


growhi, you may be right, but can you please not bring human eugenics into plant breeding threads? They're not comparable on many levels so don't stir that shit up just for a simple example.
 
growhi

growhi

Member
GoodyTwoShoes said:
Well no; because the trait was always there; by generations of selection for that trait you are just increasing the likelihood that it will manifest itself with more frequent regularity in subsequent plants.
You are not increasing the strength of that trait, eg. higher THC percentage, because that trait was already there; how did you think it got there in the first place? Because it was present in the original parents and got passe down.
Click to expand...


its impossible to do it outside while also growing a crop and also needing the seeds for the next year !!

its more scientific than ripping out runtty males !

selective breeding is the best with the best !! , whats the chance of the best female and best male from a few hundred even a few thousand plants grown out in a field , manage to find each other !!

same with people like i alluded too . whats the chance of the best female and best male meeting each other falling in love and having babys !!! .................. pretty munch 0 !!

just take dogs as an example of what selective breeding does and can do !!
 
G

GoodyTwoShoes

I think it's true that for outdoor growers,
the current stock is no better than the old skunk#1 lines from the 1980s
or many of the lovely mexican lines pre-dating that.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that outdoor growers these days are growing the same plants as you are growing indoors; outdoors growers don't grow different strains.
When I was lurking here recently I saw someone had posted a picture of an outdoor AK47, and yet most people would claim that AK47 was an indoor plant, or "hydro", and yet grown outdoors it was a monster with very big buds.

selective breeding is the best with the best !!/QUOTE]

Yes, but you aren't creating anything better than either of the parents.
You can cross the most potent with the most potent but the resulting plant wont be more potent than the most potent of the parents; you are just increasing the likelihood that the offspring will be as potent as the parents.
Click to expand...
 
midwest

midwest

Active member
You most certainly can breed something better than the parents
that's the whole point of breeding
That's how evolution works

All the strains you mentioned like white widow and northern lights are modern hybrids. Try growing out a few landraces some time and see what the difference is. And I don't just mean cause some of the sativa ones are hard to grow. Try a real large field open pollinated afgani hash plant and see how it compares to your northern lights.

Better is a judgement call, but i think testing is pretty clear that they are stronger
 
D

D.C. Denali

Member
I think you might be taking the word 'creation/creating' a little out of context.

Your threads title, " Has Marijuana really got any better," asks something very straightforward, however.

To answer your question, yes marijuana HAS gotten better.

From coast to coast, people are smoking more seedless bud, most of the seedless bud, is more plentyful, tastes better, and is, overall, getting stronger.

I don't see how it HASN'T gotten better.

D.C.
 
S

sallyforthDeleted member 75382

Yes cannabis is getting stronger and with different profiles to the high/stone.

Realized this after smoking some Zamaldelica from ACE. Been growing for 30 years and this hybrid just sent me to the moon and back and more....one little joint had me nervously baked for about five hours.

I think the future is with the seedbanks/breeders that are using Landrace's to make hybrids that are quite outstanding......oh yeah it's not all down to potency like Zamaldelica.
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
Quote Growhi: selective breeding is the best with the best !! , Unquote.

OTH > My question would be: what do you call 'the best' ?

Often times, the biggest & most vigorous plants equal 'best' plants.

But if I were to breed only these plants together, I would end up creating a line of plants that would have a tendency to never finnish.

In an open pollination, the biggest, fastest and most abundently performing plants will get the best opportunity to reproduce.

But the smallest plants are often the fastest in such a set up. ^^

Point is that I think it needs the total diversity of a gene pool in order to define the border's of what is possible to call 'the best'


Quote Growhi:just take dogs as an example of what selective breeding does and can do !!Unquote.

OTH > When released on a Siberian Taiga, None of these races could even stand a remote chance of survival competing the Wolves. ^^
 
dank.frank

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
That's about the same as saying since all men are men and all women are women...they all contain DNA - so shouldn't all their kids be the same??

I think many positive selections have been made that have advanced the "scene" as a whole.

Good luck on finding your 5...let us know what they are when you have them!



dank.Frank
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
Quote OP: Maybe we just need about five strains to choose from; a pure sative and a pure indica and then a few in between; that would cover all bases. Unquote.

I am pretty much with you on this.

Though I am all for Diversity, don't take me wrong, but my most favorite strains are all possible to count on one hand & only represent a very small cannabinoid profile group that suits me best.

Like if I were to test lets say 20 different strains (names)of a peticular cannabinoid profile, then only one winner would come out from that group & wich I would remain prefering any time over all others.

Narrows it down quite a bit yeh.
 
D

DryNobBob

I wish I could find a NL or SKunk or Widow that was half as strong as a Chem:laughing:
 
B

BasementGrower

i agree with dank frank.. but i also think.. its not really become better.. i would say u have more of a selection.. thing being.. we dont know if back then if it was pulled early.? grown to maturity? grown clear or cloudy trichs.. or what.. ? but ya we have strronger bud today.. but we also have a ton of new shit to grow these buds.. also.. so ? who really knows.. unless u tested it back then and now. which hasnt really ben done? so who cares if its stronger.. its better grown.. and more attention is spent growing them with all these websites for info..
 
growhi

growhi

Member
offthehook said:
Quote Growhi: selective breeding is the best with the best !! , Unquote.

OTH > My question would be: what do you call 'the best' ?

Often times, the biggest & most vigorous plants equal 'best' plants.

But if I were to breed only these plants together, I would end up creating a line of plants that would have a tendency to never finnish.

In an open pollination, the biggest, fastest and most abundently performing plants will get the best opportunity to reproduce.

But the smallest plants are often the fastest in such a set up. ^^

Point is that I think it needs the total diversity of a gene pool in order to define the border's of what is possible to call 'the best'


Quote Growhi:just take dogs as an example of what selective breeding does and can do !!Unquote.

OTH > When released on a Siberian Taiga, None of these races could even stand a remote chance of survival competing the Wolves. ^^
Click to expand...


that is what we Anglo Saxons call flawed logic !!

the best been,,,,,, what ever trait you are looking for. ,,,,,,,for example ........................ a cherry smell and flavor ....................... were selecting for sweet cherry !!

to do that you would have to analyze each plant select the best plants with the most cherry or cherry 'esk smell/flavour and continue the line , you keep selecting for that triat over a few generations .............................. you popped your cherry !!


and as for the wolves,, thats just like saying try geting a wolf and see if it could sniff out some explosives!!! or be a see and eye dog !! or be company for a old lonely women , or a police dog !!

even hand raised from a pup with no contact ever to other wolfs, a wild wolf is useless on all fronts !!

but you throw a dog pup in with a litter of wolfs and if it managed to survive for a while i bet it could have some part in the pack !! maybe not hunting but something !
 
Weird

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
well yeah for many reasons but it is also because getting a plant to express its true and full potential has to do with how well you cultivate it

as far as genetics not everyone works the same tight old gene pools but what has been proven to work indoors has been selected and bred against itself and others like it and this would make some worlds seem smaller

dont worry son we aint touched the tip of this iceberg

i dont think there is enough time in any one life time to find al the gems that could be potentially out there
 
offthehook

offthehook

Well-known member
Veteran
Quote Growhi: to do that you would have to analyze each plant select the best plants with the most cherry or cherry 'esk smell/flavour and continue the line , you keep selecting for that triat over a few generations .............................. you popped your cherry !! Unquote.

Right, and after you done that it would be wise to grow this fenomenon out on separate lines of huge, open pollination fields.

Otherwise your beautifull strain can only go down from where you started.


Quote Growhi: but you throw a dog pup in with a litter of wolfs and if it managed to survive for a while i bet it could have some part in the pack !! maybe not hunting but something ! Unquote.

OTH > Packs seem having a tendency of dealing with 'moron wolves' quick & shiftly lol, but ok, if... lol
 
M

MrDank

Active member
Veteran
I fear the future of the cannabis gene pool. So many "breeders" and closet hacks are using hermie plant as their parent stock, and many other are doing the female x female thing. I can not see that being a positive thing as far as the future goes

some day I'll be telling my grandkids: "yes Johnny, back in my day, there used to be both MALES and FEMALES"

"really Grandpa?"

"Yes junior"

"you mean not all girls had balls? Wow! neato!"
 
D's

D's

Member
^^what he said
And
My ladies won't throw any balls with light leaks and I use male pollen. Just like nature.
Seems like most premo seed hermie which sucks, people should flower with light leaks and other factors to eliminate this trait. Survival of the fittest. Solid female/female genes have never hermied on me. I am currently checking on my boys to see if they have the hermie gene also. Whether herbs are stronger is relative to the user period, personal tolerance plays the biggest factor. Second to that is potency from the parent stock genes. Man has modified almost every crop on this planet and some animals from its natural state and will do so forever. Thank you to the breeders of the past!! Breeders of the future should be just as thoughtful. New breeders please follow suit!! Protect the females from stray balls!!! And to the op yes I believe it is only going up in potency. Sorry for the run on. Peace. D's
 
A

Apomixis

Active member
We are but a proverbial drop in the bucket, MrD. To think uneducated stoner's could have an impact upon the drug genepool is underestimating Mother Nature at the very least. Cannabis is an outcrossing species ensuring it's survival by high adaptability & hybrid vigor. We're merely doing her bidding and dirty work. As egocentric as most grower's tend to be, we like thinking of ourselves as in control but at some point we have to stop and ask ourselves who's really selecting who? It's my experience the best herb has a way of finding you, not the other way around

-Kanza
 
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