Cannot get ph to raise. Stuck at 5.0...

spaceboy · Sep 7, 2016

Hey whats up everyone. Having some major problems in my grow right now and havent changed anything besides the brand of coco i use. All of my plants are locked out with their ph stuck around 5.0. I have flushed and flushed with .8 ec nutes and sometimes it looks like they are about to rebound, but shortly after they just fall right off. The coco is also very fine and pithy and seems to hold much more water than most coco ive ran and takes a very long time to dry out. I dont let it dry but at least so its not totally saturated.

Plants look iron deficient or maybe mag, but it starts from the top and turns yellow to eventually almost white

Im also wondering if it could be a bad batch of nutes causing this, but i replaced my nutes with a new bottle and still same problem. Roots do not look healthy either, but im thinkinh its cause the coco either stays too wet or because of the low ph.

HAZE FIEND · Sep 7, 2016

try flushing first.. always flush out if in dowt, as it may be a toxicity thats causin probs, try givin like 3 feeds of just water, if that dont help try very small amount of dolomite lime/limestone flower added to water like a teaspoon per galon n see what the run off says after that as it stabilises n raises acidic soils ph, i have it already mixed into my soil at 1 cup per cubic foot hope that helps if not im thinkin try wood ash watered in apparently raises it too?

also try lightly use a seaweed extact like algi mic or maxicrop to try de stress unlock n supply your girls with needed micro elements n beni's n help make the nitrogen more available.. just watch yr girls n see how they react..

or after flushing thru make a weak aact tea with worm castings seaweed alfalfa n comfrey n insect frass n some EM/lactobacilis or hygrozyme or other enzyme so u have the benefits of seaweed, n the enzymes in worm casts and another type of EM based enzyme to help break down any build up of anythin n process some food for the benis n roots, n the nitrogen fixing properties n the cal content of the alfalfa n the healing propertys n mag content of the comfrey.. if that dont start helpin then im clueless bro but that tea shud help most probs (after a flush incase was a toxicity) as that tea is pretty complete with all u need to keep a plant happy

dansbuds · Sep 7, 2016

i just ran into a bad batch of canna coco . it needed flushing & precharging before i could use it . found out the hard way of course ! its always been great right out of the bag until this last couple bags . now i rinse & precharge it every time .

Cadfael · Sep 7, 2016

When this happens to me, i need to clean and re-calibrate my pH meter.

Take a paper towel and wipe off the glass bulb. Even an old toothbrush helps a lot in this case.

rykus · Sep 7, 2016

Magnesium toxicity will make the medium hold more water... Flush it out with a good flushing agent and try calcium nitrate instead of cal/mg for a bit....

Upping the EC will make the medium more stable.... But yeah flush and recharge with a good balanced feed...

Loc Dog · Sep 7, 2016

Cadfael said:
When this happens to me, i need to clean and re-calibrate my pH meter.

Take a paper towel and wipe off the glass bulb. Even an old toothbrush helps a lot in this case.

I have the same problem, feeding 6.2 and runoff is 4.8. I calibrate with both 4 PH and 7 PH, since once dying batteries gave bad readings. I just tried cleaning like you said, and still properly calibrated.

corky1968 · Sep 7, 2016

If your really stuck you can get some pH Up (potassium hydroxide) at your local grow shop.

Add it drop by drop and I guarantee you your pH will go up.
Do test when doing so as it will drive your pH to 14 if your
not careful.

Again, add drop by drop with testing.

Also in the pH 5 to 6 range. Iron and manganese are more available to plants so they wouldn't be locked out.

Good Luck

Cadfael · Sep 7, 2016

Loc Dog said:
I have the same problem, feeding 6.2 and runoff is 4.8. I calibrate with both 4 PH and 7 PH, since once dying batteries gave bad readings. I just tried cleaning like you said, and still properly calibrated.

Then flush with regular water. Since you are in so cal, my guess would be to use some bottled or RO water. My guess is your ppm out of your tap is anywhere between 350-650 ppm. but even tap with these ppm numbers would still be good to use to get your run off pH out of that 4.8 hell hole.

Good luck, Loc Dog.

spaceboy · Sep 7, 2016

Thanks for the great info everyone. I actually flushed these girls multiple times in the last 2 weeks and have also calibrated ph meter and it was spot on. Im thinking this coco was just bad and now that bond wont break. I think its partially due to using ro water since there is no alkalinity in it to swing the medium with a bond this strong. I think im going to mix 50/50 tap and ro and see if that will do it. Very disappointed in this h&g coco though. I flushed and precharged before use, but i could tell it was holding so much water that i wondered at that time if it had been flushed/buffered right at factory. Wish i would have tested it cause i have 6 lights doing this now plus veg...

Itsmychoice · Sep 8, 2016

Maybe it is getting better

Maybe it is getting better

I really like mixing in protekt before adding anything else to plain water then mix nutes. Figure out the amount to hit 6 with the nutes you are using for my tap it's 1ml per gallon. Maybe be worth up potting with fresh coco for those that are not far along. Do a light foliar feed 15 mins. after lights come on and focus on temp and humidity and I bet they come around. I like Mother Earth coco. Best of luck.

Granger2 · Sep 8, 2016

Topdress with 1 Tbl gypsum/gal of medium monthly. More often if they yellow again. Feed Earth Juice Microblast 1-2 tsp/gal of liq. feed., first feed, then 1 tsp/gal. Good luck. -granger

spaceboy · Sep 8, 2016

Hey granger i think i might try that, but i just did a slurry test and coco tested at 4.5. Still use just 1 tbs? What exactly will that do? Im guess it will work similar to lime, but havent heard of using it in coco so just double checking.

Granger2 · Sep 8, 2016

Coco scarfs up Ca and Mg till it gets it's fill, then allows excess to plants. Gypsum has a pH of 7.0 so it will raise pH though not as much as lime. Plant response will determine how much and how often to apply. I would start with the amount I recommended, then more if you get a favorable response. The same with the EJ Microblast. Once green, you can moderate the amounts.

If it were me, I'd also use a good Seaweed product and lay off the K for awhile till the plants healthy up. Silicon will up the pH too. Good luck and keep us informed. -granger

HAZE FIEND · Sep 9, 2016

Granger2 said:
Topdress with 1 Tbl gypsum/gal of medium monthly. More often if they yellow again. Feed Earth Juice Microblast 1-2 tsp/gal of liq. feed., first feed, then 1 tsp/gal. Good luck. -granger

limestone flour will do the same if topdress tiny bit in but hey whatever u wana go for, and can get easyest, if u go with grangers suggestion will work too, then try the tea i stated n see your girls come back to green healthy lushness..

HAZE FIEND · Sep 9, 2016

Granger2 said:
Coco scarfs up Ca and Mg till it gets it's fill, then allows excess to plants. Gypsum has a pH of 7.0 so it will raise pH though not as much as lime. Plant response will determine how much and how often to apply. I would start with the amount I recommended, then more if you get a favorable response. The same with the EJ Microblast. Once green, you can moderate the amounts.

If it were me, I'd also use a good Seaweed product and lay off the K for awhile till the plants healthy up. Silicon will up the pH too. Good luck and keep us informed. -granger

again totaly agree with granger this guy is givin good advice like i also recomended seaweed has lots of benis n micro elements that shud de stress, unlock, n help green up your lovely ladys bro.. n my tea recipe will surely keep em happy n make em thrive after that.. :tiphat:

trichrider · Sep 9, 2016

potash...

HAZE FIEND · Sep 9, 2016

seems like may actually be a potasium toxity lockin the n out n not deficiency to me.. can be very easly confused for mag / cal mag def tho or some other kind of def.. thats why shud flush first to make sure incase its a tox then give the stated stuff in a 48 hour aact tea incase its also a def of the stated things.. e.g. nitrogen mag cal benis micros... or that it needs higher ph..

TanzanianMagic · Sep 9, 2016

spaceboy said:
sometimes it looks like they are about to rebound, but shortly after they just fall right off.

My comment is regarding photos 1 and 2. 3 and 4 are of different plants in a different state of development (early flowering - looks like they need more Magnesium).

You're watering too often. You're not using perlite with the coco coir - which is great, I do that the same way - however it requires less frequent watering. Just water once every other two days, or when the top of the coco slightly discolors.

Also, 0.8 EC for plants at that early stage is too high, especially if you are using regular nutrients.

Use 0.3 EC of your general nutrient, and 0.3 EC of your high P/K late flowering solution. Add a drop of root stimulant, and root production will go through the roof.

They should do just fine, because other than the roots not getting a chance to breathe, they look good.

spaceboy · Sep 9, 2016

I see what u mean about over watering, but i always wait until top dries out. I think the problem is that this coco is so fine, that its taking much too long to dry out and drowning my roots on the younger plants. Still no idea what cause the ph to get so low on the rest of them besides either bad coco or bad nutes.

Ordered some gypsum and microblast today so will see if that helps. In the mean time im just flushing with 50/50 tap and ro at .8ec. Do u really think thats too high?

TanzanianMagic · Sep 9, 2016

spaceboy said:
I see what u mean about over watering, but i always wait until top dries out. I think the problem is that this coco is so fine, that its taking much too long to dry out and drowning my roots on the younger plants. Still no idea what cause the ph to get so low on the rest of them besides either bad coco or bad nutes.

Probably non-absorption of nutrients, which leads to a nutrient buildup. Burning the roots. Or an anaerobic environment where fungi run rampant and pull the pH down.

You should check the state of the roots too.

I just recovered a flowering plant from root rot, by giving it a combination of enzymes, rhizotonic and flowering nutrients. The enzymes really dissolved the dead roots, and the rhizotonic and P cause very rapid root growth.

Cannot get ph to raise. Stuck at 5.0...

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