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Old 12-14-2017, 03:39 PM #301
packerfan79
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Originally Posted by dragongrower View Post
And look were pure capitalism has brought us..
Capitalism has raised the standard of living for billions of people. Without capitalism you wouldn't have the computer, iPhone, car, flat screen tv, internet. people don't innovate, when the government confiscated and redisributes the product of your labor. People don't work hard, when you get no reward for it. Besides it's truly immoral to steal the product of my work.

If you want socialism, let me know next time you harvest. I will come take it and give it to people, who didn't take the risk or put the effort into it. Then you will be a good little socialist.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:10 PM #302
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Hahaha you guys crack me up!!
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:11 PM #303
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Social security and Medicare are both socialist programs, and among the most cherished American institutions. Y'all have your work cut out for you.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:51 PM #304
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Originally Posted by packerfan79 View Post
Well cannavore, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am a capitalist through and through. Get the government out of everything. Government should handle national security, police, fire and infrastructure. As for the rest of it they can suck an egg.

You have confused capitalism with, government sponsored corrupt capitalism. Let the market work and the best will rise. I don't understand how us growers who make a living selling a product, can be anti capitalism.
Point to a time in American history where the free market worked without government intervention that isn't named the gilded age.

Who do you think sponsors the "govt sponsored corrupt capitalism?" ....... the capitalists lol. I love how libertarians think all will be fine and dandy once you free the shackles of government from the altruistic capitalist. Again its a pipe dream no different than the people who think communism can work.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:52 PM #305
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Wink

pure capitalism only works as a second job. farmers selling produce from home, smoking hams to sell at farmers markets etc. make "too much" money at it & the tax man WILL come around. he aint gonna "suggest" nor "ask nicely" either. know a couple of old boys that raise livestock (beef, hogs & sheep), have never sold a head. they butcher it themselves & trade for what they want/need...DAMN fine sausage...
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:02 PM #306
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This whole discussion is indicative of one of the major problems with human thinking. As a species we love to classify things and define them as either this or that. It's an innate strategy for processing information and we are really, really good at it. Unfortunately, the utility of this method breaks down when you move beyond simple differentiation and attempt to apply it to complex, higher-order systems, or when a simple binary distinction fails to adequately describe a data set.

This is why no single "-ism" will ever be sufficient as the Alpha and Omega of a functional society. Is capitalism an important cornerstone of a liberal democracy? Of course. But is an unfettered, profits-over-all-else economic Darwinism built on greed as the supreme utilitarian virtue a sustainable model? Are some socialistic policies such as Social Security, programs to assist the poor, etc. beneficial to the overall health of the nation? Of course. Is a 100% socialist/Communist government antithetical to our shared ideal of individual liberty? Again, of course it is. The reality is that binary, ideological purism is great for soapbox proselytizing and feeling superior, but it fails every time in real life. The "free market is god" Gordon Gecko crowd and the Outback Steakhouse libertarians ("No rules, just right") just aren't living in the real world. Sure, capitalism, ambition, and innovation are important driving forces of progress and prosperity, but I bet most of you want clean drinking water and fair banking practices as well. Data shows that providing some level of social safety net and public education benefits society as a whole by reducing poverty, crime, healthcare costs, etc., but most people probably stop short of wanting to show up to your Government-chosen job and waiting for your weekly ration of bread and gruel.

The American society as set up in the Constitution is necessarily a blend of several different philosophies. It cannot be achieved nor maintained by adherence to a single -ism, be it capitalism, socialism, Libertarianism or Rastafarianism. Everyone wants the freedom to do what they want and make money. Well, in order to live in a society where that is possible you must accept a certain social contract. Laws, regulations, taxes, and the fact that everyone gets to say their piece as well are the costs of living in that society. You like roads to drive on, police and firemen to protect you? Those things take money. You want to not have to wear a mask to breathe when you're outside? Emissions regulations on industry is the price. Don't like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs crashing the world economy by ripping off consumers and then giving themselves $30 million bonuses? Better have some banking regulations to put checks on unrestrained capitalism.

Anyone who is arguing from the high-horse of ideological purity is simply not having a practical discussion. You're not living in the real world and you're not helping.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:08 PM #307
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Originally Posted by ronbo51 View Post

This is perhaps the most ignorant post in this entire thread. I blame the Education Oligarchy, which has hijacked almost all education and turned it into indoctrination in a successful attempt to brainwash everyone to believe that Government knows better, has altruistic intentions , and will protect you and make you whole.

It is Government that spends deliriously on the MIC, conjuring up enemies and bogeymen out of thin air. It is Government that writes laws favoring big business, squeezing more and more out of Main Street using zoning, fees, regulations, labor laws, insurance, utility rates, taxes upon taxes. Just try and get a commercial lease and open a small business and follow your dream. You will be crushed. Only well capitalized politically connected will get a dispensary license. Or open a sandwich shop, with all the safety and health requirements, inspections, equipment costs, insurance, rent, taxes. It's to the point where Government officials drive around looking for lemonade stands run by little girls so they can shut them down and hopefully levy some fines and generate some revenue. Hell maybe even do some asset forfeiture on your sorry asses.

It is Government that has enacted the Deep State surveillance apparatus that monitors your every word, movement, every dollar that you make , and where it is spent. It is Government that hires goons to stop you on the street, demands your papers, and has license to shoot you, or your kids, or your dog, because they feel like it.

It is Government that has debased our money, driving down living standards for decades, backfilling the hole with ever more debt that WE have to repay WITH interest attatched. All the while the Government itself, as well as its preferred crony insider class has access to ZERO percent credit to buy real things, driving up the costs to us out here on the street.

I would like to go on but I have to go to work for the privilege of paying close to half my income to pay for the State, which you obviously adore and wish to make bigger. I don't get it. Pot growers embracing the entity that will imprison and make you destitute.

In a few more years the penalties for growing non compliant weed in a "legal" state will be worse than in my illegal state. There's your Government right there. Lunacy.
and who owns the government? "capitalists"
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:13 PM #308
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i wonder if the infowarriors in here know that modern american libertarianism was backed by the Rockefellers
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:04 PM #309
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Originally Posted by dragongrower View Post
And look were pure capitalism has brought us..
they'll argue it wasn't pure enough hahaha
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:18 PM #310
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Originally Posted by Cannavore View Post
Point to a time in American history where the free market worked without government intervention that isn't named the gilded age.

Who do you think sponsors the "govt sponsored corrupt capitalism?" ....... the capitalists lol. I love how libertarians think all will be fine and dandy once you free the shackles of government from the altruistic capitalist. Again its a pipe dream no different than the people who think communism can work.
The Free market worked until the progressives came to power. The progressives pushed government expansion, this has grown and grow to the point we are now.

So if capitalism doesn't work, and communism doesn't work where do you suggest we go as a country?
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