Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

If cannabis is to be regulated, I hope 50 states implement 50 different and disjointed systems to discourage federal or private takeover.

the gnome said:

Jhhnn your the one that just said on the last page Obama was staying out of the way,
and after the fact the DEA was doing what it does best, kicking in doors.
as if you glossed over that fact for Obama's benefit
or you must not get the newspaper O gets,
what i said is on topic, as else where obama sent in his dogs to do his bidding in denver
and it doesn't seem to bother you at all if it casts any bad on Obozo
call it hate all day long, or racist but that cards been played ad nauseum, but its a fact.
as far as no more raids??
in what and entire 45 days? and now it's all squeaky clean?
got news for ya, things never stay squeaky clean so to think 4 raids and it over...... it ain't.


I would think CO could handle taking out it's own trash without the need for for the full might of a federal govt agency
showing you guys how to deal with 4 pot shops?

maybe the DEA doubts Denver PD is not up to enforcing its own state law
with 4 small shops?
fact is the govt is flexing it's muscle and letting you in CO know it who's really in charge.
you seem to have a nice set up in Co, but in the end it's just a piece of paper and fed law trumps anything you have, and they made that pretty clear.
until fed law is changed they still own you

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Please, Gnome. You're right that federal law needs to change. A64 & the Obama Admin are showing the rest of the country why it should change & what it can change into, meaning the whole societal view of marijuana. I firmly believe that will become increasingly obvious as we proceed. There's currently effort at the federal level to protect state level MMJ from the DEA entirely.

I can't see current federal law enduring until the 2016 election, at all. CO just needs to be a successful leader, something the Obama Admin enables entirely.

The Uribe's connection to Tony Montana in Florida makes them a very special case, one the Feds simply will not ignore. They never said they would. Imagine any self respecting DEA guy not popping wood over Diaz's selfie in Guardarama's email. Fuckin' him & all his pals is what they live for, with the FBI & the IRS fighting over sloppy seconds. The fact that it's about weed doesn't matter to them- they see the Uribe Clan as professional criminals- if it wasn't weed, it'd be something else.

yeah, the feds aint gonna turn the other cheek just because it is pot. the state does not have the investigative tools to deal with a crime syndicate of that magnitude either. bad as I hate to say it, the DEA will sometimes be the tool of choice for a particularly bad group.

RoadRash said:

One way to look at proposed legislation is to ask, would this be good or bad for Will Foster ?


He was a grower who was allegedly found with about 93 plants (or maybe that was the year ?) in Oklahoma or something. They threw the book at him, life or 20 years or something.


One thing about current persecution is that persecuting Cannabis users is a money-maker for LEO - it gives them jobs.


Maybe good old-fashioned 'greed' & the free market will triumph. I expect Colorado's economy is doing pretty well, compared to other states that are dragging their heels on re-legalizing marijuana.

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greed & the free market always triumph over haters. it never happens overnight though. life is a battle that you do not survive...

legalize it don't over legislate it .don't tread on my meds.hands off my buds!!fuck corporate greed

morningdewd said:

legalize it don't over legislate it .don't tread on my meds.hands off my buds!!fuck corporate greed

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I agree, but this is one of the most fvcked up negotiations ever.

Marijuana is something people have a hard time telling the truth about.

In reality, we're talking about re-legalizing it. But I have never heard that mentioned in the Mainstream media.

It's hard to negotiate when they can't tell the truth. Of course, the US gov. and the states would have to admit that they fvcked up thousands (or is it millions ?) of people's lives.


So it ends up being 'Real-politik', in some states, a la Colorado.

I think the state's culture is very important, in affecting how the cops deal with Cannabis.

In Northern Cal, the cops have gotten the message - hands off Pot if you want to stay employed/ alive (in some counties).


I was arrested for possession of about an 1/8 in 1989, in a Calif. national park. Judge threw it out, never saw the light of day.

For many people, such an arrest is a life-ruining event. That is what we have to change.

RoadRash said:

I agree, but this is one of the most fvcked up negotiations ever.

Marijuana is something people have a hard time telling the truth about.

In reality, we're talking about re-legalizing it. But I have never heard that mentioned in the Mainstream media.

It's hard to negotiate when they can't tell the truth. Of course, the US gov. and the states would have to admit that they fvcked up thousands (or is it millions ?) of people's lives.


So it ends up being 'Real-politik', in some states, a la Colorado.

I think the state's culture is very important, in affecting how the cops deal with Cannabis.

In Northern Cal, the cops have gotten the message - hands off Pot if you want to stay employed/ alive (in some counties).


I was arrested for possession of about an 1/8 in 1989, in a Calif. national park. Judge threw it out, never saw the light of day.

For many people, such an arrest is a life-ruining event. That is what we have to change.

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Part of the problem about people not being able to tell the truth about cannabis is that people don't really know the truth. For non-participants, there's a great deal of unknown territory, easily filled with propaganda constructs. The reality of MMJ & broad usage have eroded those constructs to the point that the people of CO are willing to discard the prohibition model entirely. In their minds, whatever pot might be, it's not what those propaganda constructs represent it to be, at all. It's obviously not the lurid horror story required to maintain prohibition, at all. They still have their concerns, about young teens & about it being an income source for gangsters.

A64 was crafted to address those concerns while created legal mechanisms for cannabis to be grown, processed & distributed, all the way from seed to the effect in your head. There are legal ways for that to happen, from personal growing to med growing to retail, no glaring inconsistencies like the magic oz of WA. We changed the state constitution to accommodate the needs & desires of the vast majority of users & everybody else as well. Legal origins to legal results, the full spectrum of activity.

When the Obama Admin gave it their blessing, we took it from there, & it's unfolding beautifully. We've had some bumps in the road, probably will have some more, but nothing to truly discredit the model we've adopted. We still have issues around possession on federal lands & maybe gave up more than we should have wrt state parks, but those things can be changed over time. Nobody's going to jail over toking up in the campground, either- they're being massively inconvenienced & paying fines they shouldn't have to pay which is no worse than the way it's been my whole life.

We've lost nothing in changing the law to protect us rather than punish us, even in paying a price to do that.

Sin tax on retail? Hey, I'm not waiting around to hook up with your flaky cousin Jimmy to buy underweight bags full of dead spider mites, webs & the shit he used to kill 'em. He's no worse off than he ever was, anyway, other than maybe having fewer customers. No scoring brick weed in the barrio from people I barely know & have little reason to trust, either, people who keep the 9mm on the coffee table right next to the traces of powder on the mirror & the razor blade. I can still do that if I want, but I'm willing to pay a little bit extra for a nice retail environment, wholesome product & an assured safe exit with the rest of my money. That's if I choose to buy at all, other than growing my own & paying the electric bill.

Sellout? only in some truly twisted understanding of reality. Stickin' it to the man? Why bother when we made it so that he can't fuck with us? We got around all that, declared Peace in the Marijuana War, Peace on each other. We also get to disown the lyin', cheatin' stealin' & abusive psychopaths who've supplied much of what we've consumed while preying on the community in a variety of ways. Those who want to live with the outlaw code of silence can still play that game if they want.

I think it'll just get better from here.

As long as they allow us to grow it doesn't really matter what the retail shops do.

But don't fool yerself. The SAME lyin' cheatin' stealin' abusive psychopath bastards (and worse) are STILL at the helm of the ship (along with your Gov't as navigator)...and they will do all they can to steer that ship into a port where they have full control (aka..they want nothing more than to nix your right to grow so you HAVE TO buy from them).

Lotsa good folks grew and sold under the table for years. Some are still making it work. I sure don't fault em for not sucking the State dick.

To each their own though... yup

i understand completely now why one? of the shops was raided DEA style.
were all 4 shops under control of the Uribe's?
regardless fed control still exists
I take *Obama's blessing* at face value and given his track record to date I still take the stance of
hope for the best...prepare for the worst scenario with this admin especially.
of course face value regarding Obama track record makes me wonder if CO had not been a blue state what type of blessing would CO have had?

1 of many examples is Obama's 1st stimulus money and how it was doled out state by state.
and its becomes obvious Blue states were his friends were rewarded by being 1st in line to take the lions share of the booty,
Red states being enemies didn't fare as well.
even tho the Blue states were *blessed* the money came with a lot of strings attached to ensure *loyalty to the crown*

again its another one of those things this admin operates to makes sure you know whats best or else,
as monsoon above eloquently put it about the wisdom of sucking on the proper oscar meyer wiener.

Jhhnn said:

Part of the problem about people not being able to tell the truth about cannabis is that people don't really know the truth.

Click to expand...

Very True !

What I would like to learn more about is the medical history of the demonized drugs (Marijuana, cocaine, opiates, stimulants like dexedrine.)

I have the impression that up till about 1937 (beginning of Reefer Madness), that the 3 most widely prescribed drugs were preparations of Marijuana, cocaine, and opiates.

In other words, for the first 161 years of this nation's history, Cannabis was a significant part of the Pharmacology. Meaning, our parents & grandparents & great-grandparents used Cannabis, though perhaps without knowing it. And the nation survived !


But I would love to get more facts.

A little hard to come by though.


With the facts accurately determined, any Cannabis-hate can be obliterated with a well-spoken recitation of a few facts.

the gnome said:

i understand completely now why one? of the shops was raided DEA style.
were all 4 shops under control of the Uribe's?
regardless fed control still exists
I take *Obama's blessing* at face value and given his track record to date I still take the stance of
hope for the best...prepare for the worst scenario with this admin especially.
of course face value regarding Obama track record makes me wonder if CO had not been a blue state what type of blessing would CO have had?

1 of many examples is Obama's 1st stimulus money and how it was doled out state by state.
and its becomes obvious Blue states were his friends were rewarded by being 1st in line to take the lions share of the booty,
Red states being enemies didn't fare as well.
even tho the Blue states were *blessed* the money came with a lot of strings attached to ensure *loyalty to the crown*

again its another one of those things this admin operates to makes sure you know whats best or else,
as monsoon above eloquently put it about the wisdom of sucking on the proper oscar meyer wiener.

Click to expand...

All 4 of the raided shops were part of the Uribe operation.

Colorado isn't really a blue state, but we're trending that way. The politics of our second largest city, Colorado Springs, are anything but blue. Same for the more rural areas of the northeastern plains & a fair % of suburbia. Check MrGoodBudz' issues in Golden.

You work pretty hard to portray the Obama Admin & the federal govt in general as the bad guys, make a lot of suppositions & projections in doing so.

http://newslooper.com/html/red_state_blue_state.html

Hell, Red states wanted no stimulus, often refused to take the money they were offered, even though more than a few actually live off the federal dole. Several reject Medicare extension to their poorer citizens, even though they get a federal funding match of 9:1. As the above link offers, Blue states have willingly subsidized Red states since the 1930's. Places like Mississippi would be unbelievable shitholes if it weren't for federal funds, the US equivalent of the Third World.

I say this in a friendly way- Do yourself a favor- think a little deeper. As Americans, we're all in this together. Figure out whose rhetoric supports that proposition & whose doesn't.

You work pretty hard to portray the Obama Admin & the federal govt in general as the bad guys, make a lot of suppositions & projections in doing so.

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Questions for Statists
[YOUTUBEIF]DaDjlWAzIck[/YOUTUBEIF]

Do yourself a favor- think a little deeper

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- Separates issues into red and blue. LOL

They are both big spending and borrowing parties. The problem is debt. The reason does not matter. They spend and borrow and we pick up the tab, so yes they will spend your money on anything, the long run results be damned. We wouldn't be talking about insolvent socialized programs if they worked. Yet we should have more ?
My great ,great grandkids aren't going to be able to pay this off. We are living now at the expense of future generations. By what right does anyone have to saddle other people with any debt ? (hint: we don't have that right)
Its not even us who are enjoying it, its the very rich and the dirt poor. The dirt poor could be helped with real voluntary charity not theft and redistribution for political gains.
The very rich are getting all the bailouts for their poor decision making and recklessness at everyones expense. I have no doubt that there are real rich people who have worked for what they have and don't take anything from anyone. So I will not advocate stealing from anyone ,I never will, but FFS stop enabling the giving out of other peoples money to everyone via government and we wont have this problem.

Ron Paul: Voluntaryist
[YOUTUBEIF]7otK5NsuA4k[/YOUTUBEIF]

as a trend for many years govt hurts and and causes more problems then it is helping.
the facts are there, and currently washington/our govt is broken obozo's polls are even worse than w.bush polls

polls are never totally accurate and can have wide variations but do tell the general picture
and the picture that is plain as day.
with out a poll is this current admin has broken more records for spending, time for economic recovery, most people on food stamps, scandals, the most devisive president, blatant lies not to mention things listed in post 194 in this thread
one could wear their keyboard out detailing the 5 years worth of lies and deception and corruption by this administration that makes nixon look like a choir boy.
there's a reason a cool 2million was spent sealing obozo's college records...
one doesn't need to see his records to figure out why after 5 years your seeing why,
at least you should by this late date.
one thing about the recent poll shows that that 30some% still think he's a great guy like you for doing nothing and thinking its a blessing, and see no wrong doing at all.
that stat will get lower for the reason even hardline liberals are seeing barry for what he really is,
when the final number tanks whats left are those that still think he's the best thing to *bless* this country and will never Q him because these poeple are Obama's ideological base that will always make excuse for him no matter how bad things are.
there is no reasoning with that type as they are ideologists.
we had this discussion before Jhhnn in another thread,
and seems you are in his core base.

btw,on the stimulus moneys and the red states that got more quicker.
see how much of the stimulus money went to unions to make that statistic.
I'll tell you, all of the money went to unions.
seeing how unions are in O's back pocket and were in his top campaign money donor.
is it coincidence obama's stimulus money was to be given to projects to be done solely Unions only?

not every president does everything right, thats a fact, some screw up more than others.
they/were only human after all.
I've see many republicans and right leaning conservatives(like me/fiscal conservative) be openly very critical of GW Bush.
but its not a common thing from a liberal to disagree with their base or even worse agree with an issue from the right
it's even rarer to see that from a progressive liberal,
because many know the consequences of doing so.
that's one reason very left leaners do not go against the dem. party
the other reason is they are ideologues very deep rooted into their ideology.
this is Obama's hard core base.
Jhhnn you fall squarely into thhis group and like obama and see the same vision so you'll never go against that in any way
other than a few meaningless I didn't like this or that.
I've realized that since our 1st political chats a while back and i say that in a friendly way.

and i agree, we are americans ALL in this together and there is a common ground.
but it's in a time where we have rarely been this divided politically, racially, by wealth/class envy, by sex...
we are literaly being divided and torn apart as a nation with obama manning the shredder.
in times like this we look to strong leadership from our president to unite and guide our nation.
unfortunatley our president as one of the most devisive in my lifetime and he is fueling these problems as hard as he can.

of course the next poster will probably chime in and play the race card, and wonder how the discussion took this turn.
1st, it took more than one person keep it going.
2nd he's 1/2 white and 1/2 black,,,I'm only critiquing the white 1/2...better now?

anyways I'm not trying to persuade you jhhnn,
you're too deeply rooted in socialist progressive/liberal Ideology.
I like using these debates, allowing me to bring to light facts and expose obama for what he really is and at the same time
show what his core base is and how you act as such.
hopefully that will get others Thinking Deeper and to go look for the truth themselves about obama,
what he is doing and why.
that said this discussion for me has run its course on obozo's *official blessing* of the pot scene in CO

And he's black too..... OMG. Why is it that some people use every debate....even ones about weed.... to spiral >downward< (like a toilet, son) into a Fox News commentary from the right? What does any of the above misguided rant have to do with the topic at hand? Not a fuckin thing...that's what. The divisive bent spoken of here works both ways....

I'm still amazed how nothing here in CO has really changed re "weed". The entire weed industry is certainly there and thriving...but since you can't smoke in the bar or on the street or at a Rockies game >legally<, public use just isn't something you >>see<< happening at a higher rate than before we "legalized"....certainly not as much as in the 70's when concerts were inundated with blue smoke and we had the pipes with the long hoses that stuck to the dashboard with a suction cup for easy toking goin down the road.... (anyone remember those?)

The only real benefit I've seen has been cheaper weed on the street. How about you?

monsoon said:

And he's black too..... OMG. Why is it that some people use every debate....even ones about weed.... to spiral >downward< (like a toilet, son) into a Fox News commentary from the right? What does any of the above misguided rant have to do with the topic at hand? Not a fuckin thing...that's what. The divisive bent spoken of here works both ways....

I'm still amazed how nothing here in CO has really changed re "weed". The entire weed industry is certainly there and thriving...but since you can't smoke in the bar or on the street or at a Rockies game >legally<, public use just isn't something you >>see<< happening at a higher rate than before we "legalized"....certainly not as much as in the 70's when concerts were inundated with blue smoke and we had the pipes with the long hoses that stuck to the dashboard with a suction cup for easy toking goin down the road.... (anyone remember those?)

The only real benefit I've seen has been cheaper weed on the street. How about you?

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Thank you for that.

I see the visible changes as subtle, the more significant changes as much deeper, more profound in their own way. The lack of much perceptible difference in the things you mention leads to a whole different conversation about the meaning of legalization.

We won that battle, and now we're winning the Peace in laid back style. We're legit, so we get more respect up front. And we stay cool, offer some respect in return so that the negativity just washes away. I want this to be so smooth & easy that straight people just forget about it for the most part, accept it as just the way it is, not a bad thing at all. They'll wonder why we didn't do that a long time ago, because they'll see little harm in it. A return to prohibition can't gain any traction in that environment.

Interestingly enough, I think it's hard for a lot of pot smokers to see themselves as upstanding citizens. It's always been a badge of the counterculture, a secret handshake, something like that. It doesn't mean what it used to mean, certainly not what it meant in 1968, that's for sure.

This looks like a good start to freedom....Maybe?

This looks like a good start to freedom....Maybe?

Almost Anyone Can Have A Marijuana Business In Colorado Starting Today

Want to get in on the Colorado green rush? If you're a resident of the state, you finally can. Starting Tuesday, for the first time, any adult Colorado resident can apply for a retail marijuana business license. This marks a significant shift in the state's groundbreaking recreational marijuana laws, which first went into effect exactly six months ago on Jan. 1. Since then, only owners of medical marijuana businesses who were in "good standing" with the state have been allowed to apply for retail marijuana licenses. Now, any adult who has established residency in the state can apply for a marijuana business license.

"This is an obvious next step in the development of this legal industry," Mason Tvert, communications director at the Marijuana Policy Project and a key backer of Amendment 64, the measure that legalized marijuana for adult use in Colorado in 2012, told The Huffington Post. "New craft breweries and distilleries are frequently being established here in Colorado, and this is really no different. Existing marijuana businesses are demonstrating a commitment to following the laws and making this system work, and we expect new businesses to do the same. Colorado has demonstrated that regulating marijuana works."

The Denver Post's John Ingold first reported that as of mid-June, nearly 300 people had filed notices that they intend to apply for a retail marijuana license. It remains unclear how many of the applicants intend to start cultivation companies, how many are interested in opening storefronts and how many want to explore other aspects of the retail marijuana industry.

Natriece Bryant, spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Revenue's Marijuana Enforcement Division -- the agency charged with regulating the state's burgeoning industry -- told HuffPost that a handful of applicants, including one for a retail marijuana cultivation business and two for retail marijuana testing facilities, have already moved on to the next stage of the approval process.

But before you start packing your bags to move to the Centennial State with dreams of making marijuana millions, keep in mind that many of Colorado's cities and counties still have either outright bans on retail marijuana shops or moratoriums on new shops opening up. The state's second largest city by population, Colorado Springs, is among the cities with blanket bans, while Denver, home to the majority of the state's operative retail marijuana dispensaries, has a moratorium on new pot businesses until 2016.

On the other hand, certain cities and counties that have opposed medical marijuana in the past are now signaling their interest in retail marijuana shops. The city of Aurora, which banned medical marijuana dispensaries in 2010, has opted in on recreational marijuana shops and is accepting business applications, though it has capped the total number of shops at 24.

"We have the advantage of waiting and seeing how other cities have handled both retail and medical," said Jason Batchelor, Aurora's finance director, to Denver's Fox affiliate back in March. It's unknown what effect Tuesday's policy change will have on the state's existing marijuana industry. "I'm a little nervous and concerned about the changes that are coming," said Toni Fox, owner of 3D Cannabis Center in Denver, to HuffPost. "Not from a retail storefront side of the business, but from the large stand-alone cultivators that are now allowed to apply for licensing to grow come October 1. Most of us retail shop owners are producing enough cannabis that we do not need to wholesale any product. Where is all this new unassigned retail cannabis going to go?" "It's very concerning to not only myself but others who see the writing on the walls," Fox continued. "I think the wholesale and retail prices will come down considerably at most stores and that there will still be an extremely excessive amount of harvested cannabis available and unneeded. Where will it go?"

The state's medical and recreational marijuana dispensaries have together raked in over $200 million in revenue between Jan. 1 and April 30 of this year, according to state tax data. Despite the novelty and popularity of recreational marijuana in the state, medical marijuana continues to vastly outsell recreational. As of April, medical marijuana shops had brought in more than $130 million in revenue for 2014, versus about $70 million for recreational. That is likely due to several factors, including the contrast between the state's long-established medical marijuana industry and its still-nascent recreational marijuana industry, as well as the varying rates at which medical and recreational marijuana are taxed.

While medical marijuana is subject to state and local jurisdictional taxes, recreational marijuana has an additional 15 percent excise tax -- the revenue from which will fund public school construction -- as well as a 10 percent special sales tax on retail sales to fund marijuana regulation in the state. If approved, the new businesses will begin to open around the state on October 1.

gl

^^^^

It's a baby step. You still need $500,000 to buy a warehouse and black market growers are thriving in residential grow operations, as a result. I wonder how many millions of dollars in tax revenue the state has missed out on by restricting residential growers from receiving licenses.

They talk about how much this has "decreased crime," but the black market growers/distributors who get robbed at gunpoint aren't exactly contacting the authorities to report the crime. They don't get the benefits of doing that the way a tax paying operation does.

It's a shame.

budtang said:

gl

^^^^

It's a baby step. You still need $500,000 to buy a warehouse and black market growers are thriving in residential grow operations, as a result. I wonder how many millions of dollars in tax revenue the state has missed out on by restricting residential growers from receiving licenses.

They talk about how much this has "decreased crime," but the black market growers/distributors who get robbed at gunpoint aren't exactly contacting the authorities to report the crime. They don't get the benefits of doing that the way a tax paying operation does.

It's a shame.

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So legalization hasn't decreased risk of crime perpetrated against illegal grow ops?

Who said it would, anyway?

The objective was to legalize possession & consumption of cannabis in CO & to provide legal channels for that to happen. The objective was to let John & Joan Stoner live inside the law rather than outside of it.

Those channels now exist- MMJ, Retail, & personal growing.

The objective never was for every basement growing wannabee to flood the market with weed of dubious purity.

What few people seem to understand is that current prices are unsustainable. Large growers who get dialed in, particularly greenhouse growers, enjoy much lower unit costs because of economies of scale. They compete with each other in what really is a market of limited demand. That will become quite evident come October when vertical integration goes by-bye.

There will be no reason for pot shops to grow their own when they can select from multiple suppliers offering quality product at prices much cheaper than they can grow it themselves. We'll see growers & processors cut prices ruthlessly to gain market share & retailers doing the same. We'll see consumers develop brand loyalty like with cigarettes & booze. We'll be able to buy our brand in Cortez, Sterling or anyplace else in the state.

It's not like basement growers would be able to compete in that market, anyway.

Expect the Green Rush to be littered with broken dreams, like any Gold Rush, Oil Rush, or the rush to invest in tulips in the 1600's-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Jhhnn said:

So legalization hasn't decreased risk of crime perpetrated against illegal grow ops?

Who said it would, anyway?

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Crime is crime and it's increased in Colorado. Just because criminals are robbing other criminals doesn't mean it's not a crime.

Jhhnn said:

The objective was to let John & Joan Stoner live inside the law rather than outside of it.

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I consider residential growers who like to participate in retail to be John and Joan Stoner.

Jhhnn said:

The objective never was for every basement growing wannabee to flood the market with weed of dubious purity.

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Are you honestly saying the weed in Colorado shops isn't of dubious purity? Who do you think fooling?

Jhhnn said:

Large growers who get dialed in

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I've never seen before. Claims of their existence are a dime a dozen. I can't say the same for proof.

Jhhnn said:

There will be no reason for pot shops to grow their own when they can select from multiple suppliers offering quality product at prices much cheaper than they can grow it themselves.

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I agree that it will be cheaper, but I don't agree about the quality part. It's not going to help larger grow operations to have a cheaper, lower quality product that nobody wants.

Jhhnn said:

We'll see growers & processors cut prices ruthlessly to gain market share & retailers doing the same. We'll see consumers develop brand loyalty like with cigarettes & booze. We'll be able to buy our brand in Cortez, Sterling or anyplace else in the state.

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I'm not denying that it will be like cigarettes and alcohol with cheap customer bases for the most part, but there will always be consumers willing to pay more for a higher quality product and I have yet to see any large operations that can truly produce top shelf bud.

Guys like you always claim that these top shelf grow operations of epic proportions exist, but you never provide any evidence of it.

Jhhnn said:

It's not like basement growers would be able to compete in that market, anyway.

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I disagree. I think they're will always be two markets; a mid-grade market that the large producers dominate and a top shelf market that's owned by the small scale craft growers who can pump out far better quality. That's how is it California. The smaller guy producing primo sustains himself much more easily than the larger guys producing a lower quality product.

There are different prices for different levels of quality in every comparable market. You don't think that will be like that at all in the Cannabis industry?

I'm pretty sure both styles of operations will be successful in this industry. If they weren't this would literally be the first comparable market in history (which I don't believe tulips qualify) were that trend wasn't followed. You don't have people grinding up tulips by the pound and roasting them on a daily basis. You have people pounding beers, glasses of wine, and shots of whiskey every day. It's a depletable product that needs to be constantly replaced to satisfy the consumers of it. Tulips aren't.

Jhhnn said:

Expect the Green Rush to be littered with broken dreams, like any Gold Rush, Oil Rush, or the rush to invest in tulips in the 1600's-

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I'm sure their will be a lot of wealthy investors that take a huge hit on large scale operations that keep up with the quality of smaller scale operations, but the cost versus profit margins in small grow operations leaves very little risk for a huge investment loss. It's extremely easy to be a successful small scale grower and extremely hard to lose a lot of money if you're unsuccessful.

It's not cheap to do it on a large scale and it's even harder to "dial it in." Most of the growers in those operations are employees working for salaries who are just share croppers. With those guys if it's acceptable and it sells that's good enough for them. They're not striving for the best of the best quality. It's hard to keep a talented grower employed in this business because they can probably make a lot more money working for themselves and not someone else.

These large scale operations make more money by sacrificing quality for quantity. It's not so much that these guys can't produce higher quality it's that doing so requires them to sacrifice yield and that's the only thing matters when growing on a large commercial scale. The numbers on the scale are more important than numbers on THC test. You're yields are going to make, or break you.

To pump out the maximum amount of weight you have to elevate the lights higher and spread it out over a larger square footage and then cram as many plants in there as you can which causes the calyxes to be much smaller. You get more overall weight, but it's just not as well defined, pristine buds like you see from a smaller operation that focuses the light on less plants over a smaller square footage.