Hi everyone, I really want to use this product but before doing so I want to know what hormones its using. Some claim it causes their leaves to pray, a sign of increased photosynthesis "triacontanol" while others say it causes increased rooting times, "IBA or NAA" and the. I have read people talking about increased trichome production? "JA" if anyone knows where I can find the patent I would really like to take a look at it. I can't seem to find it. I wish I knew chemistry better. Then I could just make my own damn hormone products and would know exactly what's in my product. Instead of playing a guessing game and spending a shit load of cash.
Hormones in snow storm ultra?
- Thread starter Greeco
- Start date
Izoc666
Member
Hi Greeco, first of all i havent exprience this product. I certainly dont want to use this product for my plants...althought i dont know about hormones. I ve read this label on the back bottle for ingredients. The snow storm ultra is 0-0-3 and it kinda expensive. I love Dyna Gro's Pro-Tekt and its 0-0-3 too...its contain soluble potash (K20) and derived from potassium silicate. Also contain non-plant food ingredient: 7.8% silicon (si). I can say im absolutely positive to see increase trichome production from use this Pro-Tekt. I feel Dyna Gro products are more clean than emeralda trinagle or humbolt. Thats my two cent.
happy gardening and peace
happy gardening and peace
Builtaforest
Member
i dont know what else is in there hormone-wise but triacontanol definitely is in there.
not a bad product
comparing protekt to snow storm is pretty ridiculous. dealing with the NPK from a 'nutrient mixer' perspective is not going to get you far on comparing these products.
not a bad product
comparing protekt to snow storm is pretty ridiculous. dealing with the NPK from a 'nutrient mixer' perspective is not going to get you far on comparing these products.
dazzerx2000
Member
Hi guys i to want to know whats in there as i have used it in the past its the only one out of the three that has a big ? above it everyone says its tria but im doubtful as i use a synthetic concentrated form of tria and it doesn't do what snow storm ultra does to the plant doesn't even look like there product when mixed with polysoberate 20.
Mainly SSU seems to make the plant suck up nutes like its shooting them up its arms and resin production is off the wall, works when foliar fed to but effect is nothing like when its in the res.
::edit::
One action that supports the claim that its tria or something else as benign is the fact that eel river still stocks only SSU and not bushmaster and gravity, when i phoned them about that they said that bush and grav arnt allowed to be sold in certain states and on there site due to a labelling miss match (bulls**t) we all know why.
Mainly SSU seems to make the plant suck up nutes like its shooting them up its arms and resin production is off the wall, works when foliar fed to but effect is nothing like when its in the res.
::edit::
One action that supports the claim that its tria or something else as benign is the fact that eel river still stocks only SSU and not bushmaster and gravity, when i phoned them about that they said that bush and grav arnt allowed to be sold in certain states and on there site due to a labelling miss match (bulls**t) we all know why.
S
SeaMaiden
The labeling issue is a real issue, but IIRC those other products also have compounds that are known to be toxic.
I don't use anything from hydroponics shops anymore, and have never used SSU. However, I DO use alfalfa, both as an amendment and in teas. It is effective, I assume due to the triacontanol extracted, but there is also a good amount of N available as well, makes it problematic to use late in flower on indoor girls. No big deal for OD.
In any event, triacontanol is an effective growth stimulant, I would believe it if the natural version is indeed more effective than any synthetic version (and posing fewer issues in the meantime).
I know nothing about any other hormones in SSU, however, the indo-butrylic acid (God, I hope I got that one right!) and NAA are specifically rooting hormones, to the best of my knowledge and understanding. Are you saying that in your experience those hormones also cause increased trichome production and fattening of buds?
I don't use anything from hydroponics shops anymore, and have never used SSU. However, I DO use alfalfa, both as an amendment and in teas. It is effective, I assume due to the triacontanol extracted, but there is also a good amount of N available as well, makes it problematic to use late in flower on indoor girls. No big deal for OD.
In any event, triacontanol is an effective growth stimulant, I would believe it if the natural version is indeed more effective than any synthetic version (and posing fewer issues in the meantime).
I know nothing about any other hormones in SSU, however, the indo-butrylic acid (God, I hope I got that one right!) and NAA are specifically rooting hormones, to the best of my knowledge and understanding. Are you saying that in your experience those hormones also cause increased trichome production and fattening of buds?
No, rooting hormones do not directly effect bud production. However I'm sure by creating a healthy root system will indirectly effect yields. TRIA is defiantly the reason alfalfa teas are so beneficial. But I would recommend using it as a foliar, not drench. Make sure its nice an humid before doing so to make sure the leaf stomatas are open for better absorption. I know ooze uses TRIA for resin and oil production. Something that is very new to me because I know TRIA in later stages of flower can cause some issues with fox tailing and stretching. Its purpose is to induce cell division and cell elongation. So idk it doesn't make much since to me, but I have only been studying hormones for 4 months now. Very new to them.
S
SeaMaiden
Really? Foliar over root drench application...? This would be difficult for me to tease apart in my OD cultivation because I use alfalfa extensively as a source of organic matter and N for soil improvement. I would have to experiment with non-alfalfa amended applications elsewhere to really be able to discern.
I, too, have seen foxtailing and revegetating post-alfalfa tea application, it was one of my first really big mistakes. I am still not sure if it's attributable to the N, the triacontanol, or the combination, though, because I believe you get both when using teas.
(I'm still uncertain about triacontanol extraction via simple water methods, so please take that with a kosher grain of salt.)
There are other ways to great a good, healthy root system, and I would have to recommend building as much of a soil food web as you possibly can, which is necessarily restricted by cultivation scenario. However, much can still be harnessed, especially if soils or media are reused over time.
Check out these links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253114/
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...ction+alfalfa+water&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=
I, too, have seen foxtailing and revegetating post-alfalfa tea application, it was one of my first really big mistakes. I am still not sure if it's attributable to the N, the triacontanol, or the combination, though, because I believe you get both when using teas.
(I'm still uncertain about triacontanol extraction via simple water methods, so please take that with a kosher grain of salt.)
There are other ways to great a good, healthy root system, and I would have to recommend building as much of a soil food web as you possibly can, which is necessarily restricted by cultivation scenario. However, much can still be harnessed, especially if soils or media are reused over time.
Check out these links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253114/
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...ction+alfalfa+water&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=
Emerald Triangle likely hasn't patented it, most nutrients on the shelf don't have patents for that matter.
Their MSDS sheet MAY give you a better idea of what's in there though.
They try to hide paclobutrazol in their other products though, so you may have a tricky time getting the answer out of them.
Most resin enhancers out there (snow storm, bud factor X, gh europe's bio protect)
have ingredients that stimulate SAR (systemic aquired resistance) within the plant.
Basically a synthetic stress on the plant that causes it to produce more resin a defense mechanism.
Similar to how people run UV lights to mimmick the high altitude conditions that plants in hash producing countries grow in.
Their MSDS sheet MAY give you a better idea of what's in there though.
They try to hide paclobutrazol in their other products though, so you may have a tricky time getting the answer out of them.
Most resin enhancers out there (snow storm, bud factor X, gh europe's bio protect)
have ingredients that stimulate SAR (systemic aquired resistance) within the plant.
Basically a synthetic stress on the plant that causes it to produce more resin a defense mechanism.
Similar to how people run UV lights to mimmick the high altitude conditions that plants in hash producing countries grow in.
okay this makes since. I would rather use JA. Why stress the plant to release a hormone when u can just give it to them. For a lot cheaper too. Makes no since to me.
absolutely yes. TRIA is MUCH more effective as a foliar spray. My buddy dizzle taught me all about this. It is a fatty wax though so you want use it when temps are over 77F unless you used an alcohol to keep it soluble. Also make sure your humidity is up. 55-60% is good. Want those pores to be open not closed =) try it out on some plants, I'm sure you'll like your results.
tbh, I don't think hormones are the active ingredient in snow storm, legally an EPA number and massive amounts of testing is required to sell a fertilizer with hormones, which is why bushmaster and gravity have been pulled in a lot of places. while snowstorm is still carried by most distributors
http://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/ET Snow Storm MSDS_18381.pdf
http://www.hydrofarm.com/downloads/fc/ET Snow Storm MSDS_18381.pdf
They got pulled because the hormones they were using we're toxic. Growers out side of baned states should not use that crap. G.low did a writing on this. He's an amazing chemist,author, and all around person. Defiantly my hero. Check him out on his web site manicbotanix.com
But yeah I think your right. There might not be hormones in the product.
Builtaforest
Member
Gravity has arsenic, lead, and a few other goodies according to the Oregon State fert testing... Pulled in some places, but its around locally and online... Peeps have not stopped using these products.
S
SeaMaiden
Specifically with regard to hormones? What about adjuvants and surfactants? I'm only just beginning to get my learn on with regard to labeling of fertilizers and 'cides.'
to my basic understanding,
fertilizers are typically registered at the state level, however hormones, including things like rooting gels etc.. need to be registered at the federal level with the EPA and undergo extensive testing.
jdkronyk101
Active member
your right on the money here with your reasoning... the scientist/owner was researching patents already in existence and came across many that were using systemic stress to induce defense mechinisms in plants... without revealing too much, he started with two ingredients suspended in a propelyne glycol base to make his first "magic" formula, inappropriately named "purple max".
he had given out hundreds of gallons of tester formulas, and one of our rednecked emerald triangle farmers claimed to have a side by side of the plants changing color under foliar spray application...it was bottled and sold before realising the supposed grower was not only a drunk, but it was just a cold winter and purpling genetics....
but after two years of studying the results they realised the two "secret" ingredients, caused two things, one caused a closer nodal spacing and increased weight by way of denser floral structure, but many times at the cost of quality... this is now bottled as "gravity"...
the other ingredient caused resin production through systemic application of stress inducing agents, which causes a defense reaction in the plant. this is the basis for the "snow storm ultra"
the silicate is in there because they cant/or dont want to actually list the ingredients, mainly for labeling/patent issues....they cant patent it cause it would admit its in there...lol also if he researched patents to find it, its likely already patented so admitting its in there would raise legal issues...
maybee that will clear it up a bit....
jd
Blaz3
Member
I have heard that SnowStownUltra and PurpleMaxx include chitosan,as the primary agent to induce SAR?..does it include salyctic acid too?...methyl-Jasminate (sp)?
Other products that have this are A.N Scorpion Juice,the now discontinued G.H Chi..etc....is THIS the agent that causes the sar in Emerald Triangle nutrients?
As far as Iv studied,chitosan is the least SAR inducing agent,the best being salyctic acid and harpin protein?..if you can answer it would be great.Thanks and keep it smoky!
Other products that have this are A.N Scorpion Juice,the now discontinued G.H Chi..etc....is THIS the agent that causes the sar in Emerald Triangle nutrients?
As far as Iv studied,chitosan is the least SAR inducing agent,the best being salyctic acid and harpin protein?..if you can answer it would be great.Thanks and keep it smoky!
jdkronyk101
Active member
yo blaze i dont believe so.. as chitosan is completely legal...about a month or two ago emerald triangle was raided by the feds...who subsequently confiscated all the above ingredients/products...they are still bottling, but no longer producing bushmaster,gravity,and snowstorm... they have a new form of snowstorm ultra but its just liquid 0-50-30 and vitamin bcomplex... no more growth regulators or stress inducers...
they are also still producing their 3-part nutrients and additives as well...
they are also still producing their 3-part nutrients and additives as well...
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I am not sure if this is the correct thread. But I plan to purchase 30% purity Triacontanol to make my own growth juice instead of buying expensive branded ones such as Nirvana of Advanced Nutrients. Why pay extra for the "name" when we should be paying for the active ingredient, anyway.
I was told that 30% purity Tricontanol is inferior to 95% and above purity, and "experts" tested that lower purity has little to no effect compared to high purity Triacontanol although both are at the same ppm. Is this true? Any REAL experts have tried lower purity Triacontanol and have great results?
In case you ask, the "experts" are the sellers. I suspect they are pushing me to buy the high purity one because it costs 3 to 6 times higher than the lower purity one. Higher purity one is a lot more expensive not due to the purity per se, but the technique used to further purity it.
So if a lower purity Triacontanol (30% purity) is just the same as a high purity Triacontanol (95% and above), unless we want to sell it, then certainly there is no better reason for me or anyone to spend unnecessary money to get the high purity Triacontanol.
I really hope there are true experts here on this site who have had actually used and tested with low purity Triacontanol and are able to provide such invaluable knowledge to those who seek to save money and at the same time get maximum effect with low purity Tricontanol and not forgetting getting huge boost with low purity Triacontanol.
Please note that this is purely on Triacontanol and the effect is purely from Triacontanol, and not a concoction of other plant growth regulators. Once we know that we CAN indeed use low purity Triacontanol and CAN indeed obtain the same effect as using high purity Triacontanol, from thereon we can then mix with whatever plant growth regulators according to our heart's desire. Basically "Low purity Triacontanol" is the main star here.
I was told that 30% purity Tricontanol is inferior to 95% and above purity, and "experts" tested that lower purity has little to no effect compared to high purity Triacontanol although both are at the same ppm. Is this true? Any REAL experts have tried lower purity Triacontanol and have great results?
In case you ask, the "experts" are the sellers. I suspect they are pushing me to buy the high purity one because it costs 3 to 6 times higher than the lower purity one. Higher purity one is a lot more expensive not due to the purity per se, but the technique used to further purity it.
So if a lower purity Triacontanol (30% purity) is just the same as a high purity Triacontanol (95% and above), unless we want to sell it, then certainly there is no better reason for me or anyone to spend unnecessary money to get the high purity Triacontanol.
I really hope there are true experts here on this site who have had actually used and tested with low purity Triacontanol and are able to provide such invaluable knowledge to those who seek to save money and at the same time get maximum effect with low purity Tricontanol and not forgetting getting huge boost with low purity Triacontanol.
Please note that this is purely on Triacontanol and the effect is purely from Triacontanol, and not a concoction of other plant growth regulators. Once we know that we CAN indeed use low purity Triacontanol and CAN indeed obtain the same effect as using high purity Triacontanol, from thereon we can then mix with whatever plant growth regulators according to our heart's desire. Basically "Low purity Triacontanol" is the main star here.
vertigo0007
Member
Ive read and heard that ssu is methyl jasmonate, meja, (or most likely mdhj) and salicylic acid.
